Viohazard plans to join the school brass band (that's in addition to the proposed piano/Chinese free reed organ/guitar or violin trio and a proposal to convert the entire ballet club to flamenco...).
His plan is basically to take up whichever instruments are available/unplayed, but he assumes that will most likely be a euphonium, tuba, or maybe trombone, and less likely to be flute, saxophone, trumpet, or cornet.
He'll be cutting back on classical guitar lessons and practice after his grade 8, and wants to join brass band 1) because it's his only chance to play with others, and 2) to understand brass and woodwind better as he wants to study composition.
He doesn't know yet which instruments will be available, but all things being equal, which lower brass instruments would forumites recommend? His music teacher would love for him to learn the oboe, but that sounds time-consuming...
Full Version: Brass Band
As an oboist with a trombone-playing daughter...
First of all, if it really is a brass band then it won't have oboes in it. Oboes play in wind bands but not brass bands (and they don't usually play in marching bands either, at least not in Europe although I think they might do in the States).
I think the learning curve is different in the two instruments. Oboes take a while to "get going", brass instruments start off quite fast but then slow down.
On the practical side of things, trombones are much, much cheaper than oboes but oboes are more portable (I was surprised at just how heavy a brass instrument is). On the other hand, your son is older than my daughter so weight and size may not be such a problem.
That said, I would be more inclined to look at what sort of music your son likes playing. Trombone possibly offers wider possibilities since it can be used in an orchestra, a brass band*, a wind band or for playing jazz.
*Trombones read from the bass clef in orchestras and wind bands and from the treble clef (as a transposing instrument) in brass bands.
As to your question about which lower instrument is better. Tubas are even heavier and louder (!) and I think probably have less variety in what sort of music they play (but I may be wrong). On the other hand they are valve instruments and in that respect technique is more similar to the other brass instruments than the trombone is with its slide.
First of all, if it really is a brass band then it won't have oboes in it. Oboes play in wind bands but not brass bands (and they don't usually play in marching bands either, at least not in Europe although I think they might do in the States).
I think the learning curve is different in the two instruments. Oboes take a while to "get going", brass instruments start off quite fast but then slow down.
On the practical side of things, trombones are much, much cheaper than oboes but oboes are more portable (I was surprised at just how heavy a brass instrument is). On the other hand, your son is older than my daughter so weight and size may not be such a problem.
That said, I would be more inclined to look at what sort of music your son likes playing. Trombone possibly offers wider possibilities since it can be used in an orchestra, a brass band*, a wind band or for playing jazz.
*Trombones read from the bass clef in orchestras and wind bands and from the treble clef (as a transposing instrument) in brass bands.
As to your question about which lower instrument is better. Tubas are even heavier and louder (!) and I think probably have less variety in what sort of music they play (but I may be wrong). On the other hand they are valve instruments and in that respect technique is more similar to the other brass instruments than the trombone is with its slide.
If he's interested in jazz then go for a Big Band instrument, ie trombone (of the ones you've listed).
AVOID the tuba if you ever intend to fly with it!!!!!!!
AVOID the tuba if you ever intend to fly with it!!!!!!!
Brass band, lower instruments
Brass band name: Bb bass, Double Bb bass or BBb bass
Other name: Bb bass tuba
Date of invention: 1820 - 1830
Function in band: Bass line with occasional soli passages
Genres: Brass band, wind band, jazz big band (unusual), orchestra (large works)
Usual clef in brass band: Treble transposing down two octaves and a major second
Other clef: Bass at pitch
Brass band name: Eb bass
Other name: Eb bass tuba
Date of invention: 1820 - 1830
Function: as above
Genres: as above
Usual clef: Bass at pitch (even in brass band; the part is marked bombardon)
Brass band name: Euphonium
Other name: Tenor tuba
Date of invention: 1820 - 1830
Function: independent tenor voice, frequent solos, joins basses in soli passages
Genres: Brass band, wind band, orchestra (very few works, mostly large e.g. "Planets")
Usual clef in brass band: Treble Bb transposing down one octave and a major second
Usual clef otherwise: Bass at pitch
Brass band name: Baritone
Other name(s): Tenor horn (US), Baritone saxhorn
Date of invention: 1843
Function: accompaniment, with tenor saxhorns and lower cornets, even in bass soli passages
Genres: Brass band; occasionally allowed into wind bands that lack orchestral horns and euphoniums
Usual clef: Treble transposing down one octave and a major second
Brass band name: Tenor trombone, Trombone
Other name(s): Tenor sackbut (from c. 1500 to c.1800)
Date of invention: c. 1470
Function: various, occasional solos; joins basses in soli passages
Genres: Brass band, Renaissance ensemble music (e.g. Venetian canzonas), accompanying church choirs in ensembles of all sizes since c. 1550, brass band, wind band, jazz ensembles of all sizes, orchestras, brass and wind chamber music
Usual clef: Treble transposing down one octave and a major second (brass band only), otherwise mostly bass in recent music, tenor in older music, but occasionally alto (Beethoven, Shostakovich).
Brass band name: Bass Trombone
Other name(s): Bass sackbut, quart sackbut, quint sackbut (different lengths)
Date of invention: c. 1470
Function: various; joins basses in soli passages
Genres: as trombone, above, but fewer small works
Usual clef: Bass
As you can see, the tenor trombone is by far the most versatile large brass instrument, provided the player can meet the challenge of the various clefs that are used in the different genres. Early instruments (to which the name "sackbut" is now restricted) were narrower bore and had small bells. However, the 1470 date is derived from an Italian text that refers to a "trombone".
Brass band name: Bb bass, Double Bb bass or BBb bass
Other name: Bb bass tuba
Date of invention: 1820 - 1830
Function in band: Bass line with occasional soli passages
Genres: Brass band, wind band, jazz big band (unusual), orchestra (large works)
Usual clef in brass band: Treble transposing down two octaves and a major second
Other clef: Bass at pitch
Brass band name: Eb bass
Other name: Eb bass tuba
Date of invention: 1820 - 1830
Function: as above
Genres: as above
Usual clef: Bass at pitch (even in brass band; the part is marked bombardon)
Brass band name: Euphonium
Other name: Tenor tuba
Date of invention: 1820 - 1830
Function: independent tenor voice, frequent solos, joins basses in soli passages
Genres: Brass band, wind band, orchestra (very few works, mostly large e.g. "Planets")
Usual clef in brass band: Treble Bb transposing down one octave and a major second
Usual clef otherwise: Bass at pitch
Brass band name: Baritone
Other name(s): Tenor horn (US), Baritone saxhorn
Date of invention: 1843
Function: accompaniment, with tenor saxhorns and lower cornets, even in bass soli passages
Genres: Brass band; occasionally allowed into wind bands that lack orchestral horns and euphoniums
Usual clef: Treble transposing down one octave and a major second
Brass band name: Tenor trombone, Trombone
Other name(s): Tenor sackbut (from c. 1500 to c.1800)
Date of invention: c. 1470
Function: various, occasional solos; joins basses in soli passages
Genres: Brass band, Renaissance ensemble music (e.g. Venetian canzonas), accompanying church choirs in ensembles of all sizes since c. 1550, brass band, wind band, jazz ensembles of all sizes, orchestras, brass and wind chamber music
Usual clef: Treble transposing down one octave and a major second (brass band only), otherwise mostly bass in recent music, tenor in older music, but occasionally alto (Beethoven, Shostakovich).
Brass band name: Bass Trombone
Other name(s): Bass sackbut, quart sackbut, quint sackbut (different lengths)
Date of invention: c. 1470
Function: various; joins basses in soli passages
Genres: as trombone, above, but fewer small works
Usual clef: Bass
As you can see, the tenor trombone is by far the most versatile large brass instrument, provided the player can meet the challenge of the various clefs that are used in the different genres. Early instruments (to which the name "sackbut" is now restricted) were narrower bore and had small bells. However, the 1470 date is derived from an Italian text that refers to a "trombone".
I think the oboe comment from the school music teacher may possibly have had nothing to do with band!
Trombone sounds like a possibility, and Kenm, thank you for that list - since I'm mostly seeing and hearing instruments discussed in Japanese with some US English names for them, and seeing UK English names on the Forums, I'm nicely confused!
I think that Japanese bands probably derive from US bands, certainly the instrumentation is different from what (very little) I saw growing up in NZ.
Viohazard is madly busy but happy and excited about the musical prospects of senior high school (started this month). Music has become an elective subject, only 1-2 hours weekly for the first two years and no music for the last year, but there is more freedom to organize extra-curricular groups and projects (in addition to band, which is school-run).
Trombone sounds like a possibility, and Kenm, thank you for that list - since I'm mostly seeing and hearing instruments discussed in Japanese with some US English names for them, and seeing UK English names on the Forums, I'm nicely confused!
I think that Japanese bands probably derive from US bands, certainly the instrumentation is different from what (very little) I saw growing up in NZ.
Viohazard is madly busy but happy and excited about the musical prospects of senior high school (started this month). Music has become an elective subject, only 1-2 hours weekly for the first two years and no music for the last year, but there is more freedom to organize extra-curricular groups and projects (in addition to band, which is school-run).
QUOTE(kenm @ Apr 16 2009, 11:19 AM) 
Brass band, lower instruments
Brass band name: Bb bass, Double Bb bass or BBb bass
Other name: Bb bass tuba
Date of invention: 1820 - 1830
Function in band: Bass line with occasional soli passages
Genres: Brass band, wind band, jazz big band (unusual), orchestra (large works)
Usual clef in brass band: Treble transposing down two octaves and a major second
Other clef: Bass at pitch
Brass band name: Eb bass
Other name: Eb bass tuba
Date of invention: 1820 - 1830
Function: as above
Genres: as above
Usual clef: Bass at pitch (even in brass band; the part is marked bombardon)
Brass band name: Euphonium
Other name: Tenor tuba
Date of invention: 1820 - 1830
Function: independent tenor voice, frequent solos, joins basses in soli passages
Genres: Brass band, wind band, orchestra (very few works, mostly large e.g. "Planets")
Usual clef in brass band: Treble Bb transposing down one octave and a major second
Usual clef otherwise: Bass at pitch
Brass band name: Baritone
Other name(s): Tenor horn (US), Baritone saxhorn
Date of invention: 1843
Function: accompaniment, with tenor saxhorns and lower cornets, even in bass soli passages
Genres: Brass band; occasionally allowed into wind bands that lack orchestral horns and euphoniums
Usual clef: Treble transposing down one octave and a major second
Brass band name: Tenor trombone, Trombone
Other name(s): Tenor sackbut (from c. 1500 to c.1800)
Date of invention: c. 1470
Function: various, occasional solos; joins basses in soli passages
Genres: Brass band, Renaissance ensemble music (e.g. Venetian canzonas), accompanying church choirs in ensembles of all sizes since c. 1550, brass band, wind band, jazz ensembles of all sizes, orchestras, brass and wind chamber music
Usual clef: Treble transposing down one octave and a major second (brass band only), otherwise mostly bass in recent music, tenor in older music, but occasionally alto (Beethoven, Shostakovich).
Brass band name: Bass Trombone
Other name(s): Bass sackbut, quart sackbut, quint sackbut (different lengths)
Date of invention: c. 1470
Function: various; joins basses in soli passages
Genres: as trombone, above, but fewer small works
Usual clef: Bass
As you can see, the tenor trombone is by far the most versatile large brass instrument, provided the player can meet the challenge of the various clefs that are used in the different genres. Early instruments (to which the name "sackbut" is now restricted) were narrower bore and had small bells. However, the 1470 date is derived from an Italian text that refers to a "trombone".
All instruments in a brass band apart from bass trombone are marked in treble clef. Tenor horn, E-flat bass and soprano cornet read treble clef in E-flat, and cornet, flugel, baritone, euphonium, B-flat bass and tenor trombone read treble clef in B-flat.
QUOTE
Brass band name: Baritone
Other name(s): Tenor horn (US), Baritone saxhorn
Other name(s): Tenor horn (US), Baritone saxhorn
Baritones and tenor horns are different instruments, baritones are in B-flat and tenor horns are in E-flat.
QUOTE(tuba_george @ Apr 16 2009, 07:32 PM)
All instruments in a brass band apart from bass trombone are marked in treble clef. Tenor horn, E-flat bass and soprano cornet read treble clef in E-flat, and cornet, flugel, baritone, euphonium, B-flat bass and tenor trombone read treble clef in B-flat.
You may find treble clef parts for Eb bass nowadays; you would be very unlikely to find them in any sets published before 1950, when bass clef concert pitch was standard, as it has remained for tuba parts in the orchestra. Tenor trombone transposing parts in treble clef were just coming into brass band sets then, but the older parts were in tenor clef concert pitch.
QUOTE
Baritones and tenor horns are different instruments, baritones are in B-flat and tenor horns are in E-flat.
That describes the situation in the UK. In the US, the Bb saxhorn is called Tenor Horn and the Eb one Alto Horn.
Thanks for all input...looks as if it will be tenor sax, as that's where the "gap" is...so much for lower instruments! 
Viohazard is so pressured for practice time that the similarity with recorder fingering is also an attraction.
The band is very small - two trumpets, (two cornets??), two trombones, one alto and one tenor sax, one or two percussion, and inexplicably, one piano and one electric guitar. Unspecified number of flutes. No french horn, no tuba, etc.
However, for the time being, G. 8 guitar takes priority and the sax, should it eventuate, is forbidden to cross the home threshold until summer.
Viohazard is so pressured for practice time that the similarity with recorder fingering is also an attraction.The band is very small - two trumpets, (two cornets??), two trombones, one alto and one tenor sax, one or two percussion, and inexplicably, one piano and one electric guitar. Unspecified number of flutes. No french horn, no tuba, etc.
However, for the time being, G. 8 guitar takes priority and the sax, should it eventuate, is forbidden to cross the home threshold until summer.
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