so, i have some notes here:



and i'm finding it a little tricky, specifically the A in the second bar. at the moment, i keep my 3rd finger on D while playing the F and G, then rock it backwards onto the E string to play the A. but this leads to a rather poor/weak tone, so i'm wondering if there's a better way to do it?

It depends on how large your fingertips are as to how you might go about this. You might be able to stop your A string (I'm making the gross assumption that we are talking violin here) with the tip of your 3rd finger and then not so much rock onto the E string but roll the finger so that it stops both strings together. If you still can't get a clean sound there's always the slightly clumsier method of lifting the finger altogether. Experiment a little with these methods and see what works and what suits you.

Could you do a stretched fourth finger in 3rd position? (Am thinking about this while sitting in an office and without violin on hand, so not 100% certain that would work any better than rocking your finger onto the E string!)

I'm guessing this is a reel or a hornpipe, right? If so, Liz Carroll showed me the way she does this kind of fifth jump - if you've got skype, we can 'meet up' on line and I'll show you - she kind of places third finger on both strings, but more on the first string, then at the moment of the jump, she flattens the finger pad to take the other note - it's hard to describe, but it works very well on this kind of figure.

yes, this is for the fiddle--sorry, i probably should have mentioned that ;-)

hmm, so i can see how playing it in 3rd position would be easier, but as i'm not especially comfortable with that (by which i mean i've never played outside first position before), i'm not sure it's something i'd want to rely on.

rosfrog - i think i see what you mean, but doesn't that make it hard to play the open E string? or would you just shift the finger over at the start of the second bar?

You can either do fourth finger there, or play a normal D for the open e, f, g bit, then at the end of the g, reposition the finger for the fifth.



Quick update as well, don't know how you're bowing this, but my inclination would be :

upbow for the d, down for the e and f (slightly accelerating the f), separate bows for the two d's, then up for the g and two d's that follow (separating the d's with a cut on the fourth finger), down for the a, up for the d, bowed treble for the triplet slurring into the last note on the down, up for the d (to be slurred into the first beat of the next bar).

That seems to make the thing flow better for the fingered fifth.

How you getting on with it River ?

And what's the name of the piece - I've been humming it over and over - I really like the syncopated feel.

This looks like a great opportunity to start learning/practicing 3rd position
go on, give it a go
you can still play it in first position but do a bit of third on the side to get used to it
Once you start going off first position the world is your oyster and you will love the freedom

I have not tried this bit on the violin, will do so this afternoon during my practice session but I have a feeling I'd play it in third and do a stretched 4th finger or even a quick shift, I'll try it out later today and tell you.

Now sorry for my 'ignorance' but is the Bflat on top of the bars telling me it's in Bflat major? I love that scale by the way

Actually, JoJo, third position won't work here - this is a fiddle tune rather than a classical piece and if we play this in third position, it takes out the possibility of using a rhythmic device called crossbowing, which is responsible for a lot of fiddle tunes swinging the way they do - playing it in third would take the swing away because you can't crossbow on one string.

I'm comfortable in most positions up to about 7th (after that it's pure unadulterated guesswork ), and I would guess that most decent traditional fiddlers in the Irish / Scots tradition at least are comfortable at least up to fifth. I definitely wouldn't play this in third - the shift would be cumbersome, we'd lose the swing and crossbowing and the speed of these kind of tunes would just make it messy.

That's not to say that we never shift in traditional music - but it's more a case of when we need to - in one particular reel I play we use every position from first to fifth, but that's because the notes just go up there and in a particular parttern that makes that the only sensible fingering to use. Most traditional fiddlers won't shift unless it's necessary and will favor the rhythm over everything else.

Anyhow, not a criticism, but just explaining why third wouldn't be a good idea here, in my opinion.

Allan
(I'd guess D minor from the notes, but I could be wrong).

ros - so, if i bow it 'naturally' (without thinking about it), i end up with an down for the D, up for the E-F, then straight, ending on an upbow for the first note of the triplet, slurring the E-F, and ending on a downbow for the last D (and playing the next note separately).

i quite like your suggestion; the only problem with both these methods is that the next phrase really wants to start on a downbow; i guess you'll see why if you look at the rest of it ;-). hmm, slurring the C will probably work okay, actually... (it's a little bit tricker than most of the things i play, so i'm still at the stage where i'm trying to play the notes properly without worrying about bowing too much yet.)

the tune is "Dawn Chorus"--some ABC can be found here. the only recording i know of is on Spiers & Boden's album "Bellow" (which if you're at all interested in hearing some good English music, is definitely worth listening to). it's played fairly slowly--i'd say around crotchet=120.

jojo - the Bb is just a (guitar/melodeon) chord which i didn't crop :-) the tune is in D minor. (actually the first thing i've played in a key flatter than A minor, but i'm quite liking it.) i have been fiddling around in third position, just for practice... i can pitch the D reliably most of the time now, but oddly, shifting back to first is proving more troublesome.

River - I'll check it out and have a play of it, although if it's English, I can't guarantee that I'll play it with the right bowings - I've been too infected by Irish and Scottish stuff!

I'll let you know once I've had a go - I'm looking forward to it, all the tunes you posted on the fiddle thread were really nice (I've even managed to sneak one into our Irish session).

I'm back again !

Right, I've played it and I think you're right, that C really needs a down. How about this (might be a bit Irish sounding, but it'll give you a starting point) :

down d, up efd, down d, up gd(cut)d, down ad, up d, down e, up fe, down d c, up ece, down b, up e.

Giving a bowed treble feel to the triplet.

Might work and it brings you back to your down bow on the C. I like the cross bar slur (speeding up slightly as you change from the d to the c at the start of the third bar) but if it's a little too Irish sounding, just add the d into the upbow slur and change to down at the start of bar 3.

Any use ?

WOW rosfrog, that was a really useful lesson for me.
I never thought of it as a 'fiddle tune' and never known what a 'fiddle tune' really is or entails so this was really interesting, never heard of crossbowing either!
I knew there was 'life on the other side of classical playing' but never knew what it was LOL LOL
seriously though, thank you for explaining all this to me

You're very welcome !

How's the double bass hunt going ?