For whatever reason, this forum doesn't hang on to threads for very long (is it just one month?), so I'm resurrecting this one!

You will recall my invitation to fellow forumites to my recital in North Yorks a couple of weeks ago, and it was very nice to meet one of you, though by introducing yourself by your real name, I still don't know what your forum name is! Thank you for coming and supporting.

For the benefit of the rest of you, I was a little alarmed to arrive at the venue on the afternoon to see the event being described as 'an entertaining lecture recital', a first for me. There was certainly a recital, I hope it was entertaining, and there was definitely no lecture. I hope the little girl from the audience who helped me out with Cuckoo from Carnival of the Animals has suffered no long term mental scars....

I'm prepared to help with prolonging a thread if it is of particular interest to me and I feel I have something to contribute.
This morning, I have tried to read the latest replies in the thread 'What organ recitals have you been to ..' and find that I cannot locate any of them. When I click on them I get a webpage saying that an error has occurred and offering various reasons why the page is no longer available such as the thread has been discontinued or has been moved.
Any way, back to this new thread : this year's recitals have been a disappointing start for me. The first one I attempted to attend was cancelled at short notice owing to illness (of the recitalist, I presume), and the one I heard on Easter Monday was humdrum! So I'm hoping for better things to come. Tomorrow, I'm intending to go to one in Chesterfield so I'm hoping it will be worth while.
Of the recitals I attended last year four were outstanding:

1. Naji Hakim at Derby Cathedral

2. Derby Cathedral Organists Peter Gould, Tom Corfield and Ben Bloor, and Christopher Johns in a joint recital. Organ scholar Ben Bloor is an astonishing teenage musician who gave a stunning performance of Messiaen's 'Dieu parmi nous' and played the solo part in a Handel Concerto with Peter Gould playing the orchestral part on the Cathedral Organ.

3. John Scott Whiteley at York Minster performing Messiaen's 'Livre du Saint Sacrement'.

4. John Scott Whiteley at Leeds Town Hall in a repeat performance of the Messiaen.

If I hear ONE recital this year to match any of these it will be worth it. I'll keep you informed.

If I understand what you're saying correctly, Monsieur, I think the solution is as follows:-

Go to the bottom right of the Viva Organ screen and, where the pop-down menu says '30 days', scroll down to the bottom of the menu and select 'All'. Then click 'Go', and you should be able to see all the topics in Viva Organ, not just the last month's.

I've tried this, now, Holz Gedeckt, but it doesn't work for me. I still get a page saying an error has occurred and that the topic might have been moved or discontinued.
rk

I've managed to resurrect the thread, it should now appear immediately above or below this one, following your advice HG.

If we are in the buisness of shameless advertising:

My next recital is at North Walsham Parish Church (15 miles north east of Norwich) on Thursday 21st May. I will be joined by trumpeter Matthew Martin, and playing organ repertoire including Bachs' 1st trio sonata, Hollins' Concert overture in c minor, and the Wesley air on a theme of the Holsworthy church bells. Trumpet and organ music includes the Liberty Bell March, Radetzky March, Pie Jesu and two of our own realisations of baroque music from trumpet and bass

That's odd!

Sometimes I get an unexpected error when viewing the forums with Google Chrome, but refreshing the page a few times normally sorts it out.

'shamelss advertising' ! ?
Surely not; 'respectable publicity' is what it should be called. Without it, and some enthusiasm to go with it, organ concerts/recitals will continue to attract diminishing audiences which, ultimately, will disappear altogether.

Shameless advertising, certainly not!

Even if its not our own recitals, all organ recitals need more support, and in case you're wondering where the nearest one to you is, search www.organrecitals.com

What a pity - I will be East Anglia most of the following week !

I hope to get to one of the Thu lunchtime Chesterfield series.
I generally can't make Derby on Wednesday evenings because of clashes with other things - they have some big names, but it's the programme that would bring me along.

The programme is often a major factor in my decision to attend a concert, but unfortunately many recital programmes are not published in advance, so then one has to take 'pot luck'.

Exactly! The ill-fated and now defunct 'Organ Festival' at the Fairfield Hall invariably had massive confusion about the programme for the 'classical' recital. Despite assurances to the contrary, the programme was hardly ever available in advance, even from the Box Office.

I ALWAYS check the programme first - ever since turning up to the Fairfield Hall (to review a recital, so I had to be there,) to find that the second half was the three Franck Chorales, one after the other.

Similar recitals have been mounted elsewhere on the same basis by French music enthusiasts, but at least if the programme is published in advance one can avoid an overdose of Franck!

Barry Williams

Barry, whilst the beauty of these works can't be questioned, surely the three one after each other was VERY heavy listening!

'Heavy Listening' is a massive understatement. Added to the unsuitable nature of the programme was the unsuitable venue (Fairfield Hall) with a nil acoustic and an unsuitable organ - unsuitable for anything musical actually - that is the fault of the designer not the builder. It was an utter and unmitigated disaster of the first and worst order.

Others have tried total Cesar Franck programmes with equal lack of success. Even all Bach programmes can be heavy going unless very carefully planned. This idea of playing all the Trio Sonatas (of Bach) or all the Chorales (of Franck) and similar programmes in a sitting is surely silly and can do nothing to encourage an appreciation of organ music or the King of Instruments itself. Even in a sympathetic acoustic and on a fine organ, all Cesar Franck in one go is bound to be heavy going.

I was taught how to plan a programme so as to meet the need - lighter material for lunch time, and always short enough so that people could get a bit to eat, proper contrats of key and mood, etc. It is fundamental to the presentation of music, whether in a recital or, indeed, in an act of worship - one would not have four hymns all in the same metre and the same key. (Though I have heard this done - really!)

In my days of reviewing the organ recitals at the Fairfield Hall I recall four well-known recitalists each performing Bach's Passacaglia and Fugue - in four consecutive recitals! It was small wonder that the audience eventually voted by staying away - as they did with a more recent orchestral series, when rather boring contemporary (shapeless, rhythmless and out of tune) music was thrust on an unwilling public. The sales of tickets dwindled and have never recovered.

There is more to music than just the performance of the notes!

Barry Williams

Yes, I agree with what you have added here, Barry. There was an article in the last but one OR on similar lines. I too was well taught (both by example in their own programmes, and in lessons) about programming recitals for different occasions, and as you hinted above, different schools of organs. This appears to be something missing from many of the modern Oxbridge-wunderkind. Perhaps, I am occasionally guilty of going too far the other way, in terms of what some might call 'serious art' versus 'lighter fare' organ music, but I've not had a recital organiser say this to me, which I hope they would if I overstepped the mark.

A well know organist known personally to Barry and I, who organises a free lunchtime set of recitals in one of the Greater Churches, now approves programmes in advance. Some have been a bit sniffy about this, but having had the shoe on the other foot, I can tell you how poor the PR is when you have worked hard to build up a loyal (mainly non-organist) audience (who put money in the coffers afterwards to pay for the recitalist) with a rich and varied diet of programmes and then one person oversteps the mark in terms of endless Reger/Rheinberger, dull or no spoken introductions, plays a raft of his own compositions and then oversteps the time limit by some considerable distance, therefore upsetting tea ladies and refreshment monitors!

I attended an organ recital last week which had an appealing and varied programme of music ranging from the 18th to 20th centuries: not 'organist only' pieces but 'friendly' to non-organists without being patronising in any way. Included in the programme was music by two composers I had not come across before: Luigi Bottazzo and Kenneth Blackwell. So it is possible for organists to learn something new even from a popular programme!
I think we need more organ recitals/concerts to be representatively programmed with a variety of composers, periods and styles in order to retain the small audiences already attracted, and hopefully to increase them.
That is not to say there is no place for the 'specialist' recital represented only by one composer, or period, but the varied, more appealing programme is a 'must' in my opinion if new people are to be drawn to the audiences.

I wish I had the opportunity to do a recital, but my church are not interested ! Whilst I'm not of a really high performance standard, I am sure I could cobble up a varied programme of Stanley or Pachelbel, J S Bach, Mendelssohn or Rhienberger, Vaughan Williams, Howells, Gordon Jacob, and David Barton.

That sounds a shame if you think your church isn't interested. When I was a student, the way I thought I could get people to come to a recital at first, was to share it with someone. I had an excellent flautist as a friend, and we did a mixture of flute/piano, flute/organ and organ solos. We also did it in aid of a charity, which I think also helped. They were humble beginings, but we did manage to build up a loyal audience.

You should give it a go, you never know!

I tend to call my organ concerts exactly that, i.e. concerts and not recitals. I think that the term "Organ Recital" can conjure up images of dusty old organists playing obscure music on dusty old organs.

Give it a go, FSM! Why not style it as an organ concert, introduce something to make it extra "fun", and give away a complimentary glass of wine to people who attend? You might find you get more people turning up than you might expect....

I now prefer the term 'concert' to 'recital'.
However, we do seem to have difficulty leaving behind the old -fashioned term 'recital' which is still predominant also in 'piano recital' , 'song recital', 'violin recital' and so on.
In the world of the entertainment organ (e.g.cinema/theatre organ) even the term 'concert' is often shunned with 'show' taking its place !

Show conjures up images of CC, and people clapping along to the Radezky March and crying during To a Wild Rose.

Concert is perhaps a better word than recital, it should be a word most understand, though perhaps 'gig' is more widely used? I went to pop 'concerts' in my youth, but my pupils appear to go to 'gigs'.

An organ gig?

Well, we could perhaps perform the 'gig' (gigue!) fugue of Bach, with the audience clapping and stamping in time, with some getting up to dance, in the style of Virgil Fox. 'Heavy Organ' rides again! Do a search on YouTube if you want to experience this!

Actually, a certain organist who posts around here did this at a "Last Night of the Proms" concert last year, to the accompaniment of hooters, whistles and all sorts, and had a few of the audience get up to dance too....

...yes, we know who that was...

Anyway, back to the point, have you heard the Fox endorsement to join in and clap to the Bach Jig Fugue. Light years ahead of its time! I couldn't find it on YouTube, but I know it is on OrganLive.

I'm not quite sure what you're referring to, but are either of these what you're after?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gRBCAdC7wI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UbDWkZLevM

The first one has his introduction, and the second one is a clip from one of his 'Heavy Organ' concerts.

Yes, these are the ones. Despite our despiseing for modern toasters, we should at least be grateful for how much they have moved on since the Rogers featured here.

I'm presently reading a fascinating book called "All The Stops - The glorious pipe organ and its American masters", written by Craig R. Whitney. In it, he describes how Fox utterly hated electronic organs too but, when Rodgers Jenkins (the head of the Rodgers Organ Company) offered to pay him generously to play Rodgers electronic organs, Fox quickly overcame all his objections.

Well? Why not? SOME classical musicians seem to use that term now



I'd like to see someone (try to) dance to the 'Fugue a la gigue' ( Not publicly, though ).I bet no one could !
I don't go for audience participation, however. For me that's a gimmick too far. I dislike the 'Last Night of the Proms' for that reason.

There is a You Tube of Virgil Fox playing the Gig fuge and the audience clap and dance.


Barry Williams

Actually, I'm starting to warm to the idea....


Yes, I posted both YouTube links 5 posts earlier up this thread!

He's not the first, and he certainly won't be the last!!

When I first started lessons on the organ at my old school, it was on a Rodgers, liked it a lot. When I went to university, the 2 manuel Collins gave me a shock, I'm still hating it with a passion! Back to recital, my up-coming final is only 30 minutes, shockingly short! Doubt my friends will come, consider is at 9 am!!!

I have a choice of practice instruments round here; a two man Peter Collins in pretty good nick, and a two manual tracker Gray and Davidson, no playing aids at all. The PC is the harder to play, because it is better made and more responsive. Yes, I play more wrong notes, but it is so much better for the technique.

you are lucky that the two PC is working. the one i have at the university doesn't really work. it virtually has no action (it's very very light) and some notes just don't work. i'm very scared of 'breaking it' with heavy practice.

I took great delight today in noting that an esteemed organist was playing Bach from Novello editions in his performance. The recession must be hitting!

Recession hitting or not, playing from the Novello edition is a welcome sign. The Novello edition of Mendelssohn's organ sonatas seems to have been out of favour for years, but I still use it when playing the sonatas. I find the Peters edition (which is one of the preferred editions) more difficult to read. Why is the Novello edition unpopular with the younger generation of players, and when will its popularity be revived?

Join the club!

I suspect it's because the Novello edition of Bach's complete organ works is now considered rather passé (compared with Barenreiter and other Urtext editions) and that, because Novello was once known as being the 'flagship' Bach edition before falling out of favour, this has rubbed off on their edition of Mendelssohn and, probably, their editions of other composers too.

I understand, too, that they're not exactly the fastest to update their scores when corrections are discovered....

I'd be surprised if they were updating ANY of thier editions. I suspect one reason why they are less popular (for me at least), is that they are not 'clean' scores and many find the obtrusive phrasing and suggestions of manuals (always English names) and stops off putting. Much better to have a 'cleaner' score with a scholarly preface and commentary, then the player can make their own mind up.

Having said that, there are one or two pieces I still use Novello for, the St Anne being the biggest. In this case, it was a piece I learnt a long time ago, and still haven't got used to the layout in the Barenreiter, and all my fingering is still in the Novello as well! Incidentally, although I far prefer the Barenreiter, the books don't stand up to long extended use very well. About 6 months ago, I got 6 volumes made into hardback at a bookbinder and its the best thing I've done in ages. They stay open, they are hardy, and they look good. I'm about to do the same with the remaining ones and some Buxtehude.

Thanks for the response to my question which was partly rhetorical and partly seeking others' answers.
The answers given accord with my own and I think it unlikely that the Novello edition's popularity will return unless it is completely revised. I do use the Peters edition of the Preludes and Fugues, Op. 37 and have them in no other edition.
For Bach, I generally prefer and recommend the Barenreiter edition which I invested in some years ago largely to replace worn out Peters and Novello scores. But for some works(especially the Trio Sonatas and the 'Dorian' Toccata and Fugue) I still use the old Widor-Schweitzer edition which my teacher recommended to me in my first year of organ study. This edition has good, clear print which I find even better than that of the Barenreiter edition.

Back to the original topic.

Anyone in the West Midlands on Bank Holiday Monday and interested in a recital, PM me for details. Its a launch recital for a new CD due out this week. (It's free...the recital I mean, not the disc!)

There's a really good organ concert by Wayne Marshall at the Royal Albert Hall in London on 21st October at 7.45pm. Link to the concert is here:

http://www.royalalberthall.com/tickets/way...ll/default.aspx

Includes Widor’s Symphony no.6 and his own arrangement of Bernstein’s Wonderful Town.

Thanks for the pms everyone, it starts at 12, and please come and say hello afterwards where we're selling the new cd.

West Midlands is a bit out of striking distance for me otherwise I would go.

Dragged OH to Bridlington Priory on Saturday to hear Carlo Curley, a name I have seen here and elsewhere but otherwise knew nothing about. Never been there before so was interested to see the interior and experience the acoustic.
I was sulking a bit when the recital began because it was obvious that major changes had been made to the programme - the Bach and Mozart items had been cut and instead we were presented with:

The Old Refrain - Trad Viennese melody (arr. Curley)
Prelude in Classic Style - G.Young
Christos Patterakis - R.Perry
Vol in F - J Stanley (enhanced by an automaton of singing birds well, a sound effect, anyway!)
Fantaisie in A (No 1 of Trois Pieces pour Grand Orgue) - C. Franck
Turkish March (from Ruins of Athens) - Beethoven
Liebestod (Tristan and Isolde) - Wagner
Entry of the Nobles (Tannhauser) - Wagner

^These last 3 arranged by the performer.

Introduction andTrumpet Voluntary(no 1) in D - Boyce
Elegiac Romance - Ireland
Roulade( from Six Pieces 9/3) - Bingham
March Militaire Francaise (Suite Algerienne) saint-Saens

I don't know if a video of the performer on a projection screen is typical in a recital of this kind but it gave an insight into the registration changes during the pieces and the fact that CC plays in his socks, a detail that has generated steam on this forum before.
I could have done without the arm gestures when each piece of music finished but that is no doubt a churlish observation of mine and is a characteristic of this particular musician.

As an encore, he played a Symphony in D by JSB (I knew I should have written it down - can't remember chapter and verse, all the more disgraceful since the piece was performed from memory!) so I didn't go home Bach-less.
I purchased a CD in the interval which was signed by the performer (who also manned the credit card machine - busy boy!) and would also have bought the snake oil had any been on offer. The CD featured slightly deeper music performed on a new organ in Trono church, Sweden.
I can see that he perhaps would not appeal to a certain type of audience of organists but he is a generous performer and was very gracious about the instrument and the surroundings.
OH stayed awake throughout.

Carlo is playing at Godalming Parish Church this Friday evening (4th September) at 8 pm.

Barry Williams

I wouldnt pay tuppence to hear that show off ! Plays everything too fast for effect.
heard him live three times and it has been the same every time. He murders 'Transports de Joie', even did it at the Proms some years back.

I am giving a Trumpet/Organ concert with Crispian Steele-Perkins on Saturday, September 12th at 7.30pm in Kent (very handy for all you M25ers).
Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Bach, Stanley, Charpentier, Purcell, Buxtehude and some Gershwin for good measure.
PM me for more details...

You're not the first person I've heard say this...

Yup, FSM, I couldn't agree more.

Ta for the attendees! It went pretty well, over 250 in the audience and sold loads of the new cd. If anyone interested in the CD, PM me, its all transcriptions (Nutcracker, Die Fledermaus, Orb and Sceptre, Planets etc...)

For anyone within reach of County Durham on Saturday 3rd October.

It's not exactly an organ recital, but the Andreas Ensemble will be performing at St Edmund's Church Sedgefield at 7.30 pm on Saturday 3rd October.

Planned works include Liszt's Missa Choralis, William Byrd's Mass for four voices, Tomkins Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God of Sabaoth and some Russian liturgical music.

The choral pieces will be interspersed with organ solos on the Jackson organ, (NPOR Listing ) so it should be an interesting evening.

I will provide an update when the final running order is known.

This will be followed by a similar concert two weeks later on 17th October at Sunderland Minster.

For further information please see the Andreas Ensemble Website.

SB