Full Version: Composition...anyone?
I've read dozens of topics about performance in these forums. But does anyone like to compose? Not just composing for a theory exam, I mean. Where do you learn?
I've started a composition course at my local college. I wanted to learn more about harmonisation as well, and thought it would be a good place to start.
I was wrong.... the tutor is very nice, but his background is not in classincal music at all. When I was doing theory with my singing teacher, she said that you need to know all the rules before you can break them. I went to college, and was told that composition was about doing what you liked!
I'm not too impressed, and wondering whether to go back.
I was wrong.... the tutor is very nice, but his background is not in classincal music at all. When I was doing theory with my singing teacher, she said that you need to know all the rules before you can break them. I went to college, and was told that composition was about doing what you liked!
I'm not too impressed, and wondering whether to go back.
I suppose one starts to compose because one feels impelled to compose. So...you just start.
It's true the board contains less on composition than perforrmance but that could be because i) the AB doesn't do a run of exams in composition (more's the pity but it would be a difficult subject to examine on - how do you examine individuality?) and ii) it's unique to the individual along with its many problems that have to be solved.
I reckon the best route is to study the music you play or like in greater depth; come to understand its structure; develop an inner ear so you can develop the work in your head etc etc. If you want to compose orchestral music, a facility with score reading (reconstructing the sound in your head) is valuable - more so than most of the books on orchestration you'll find around. Score reading is something you can do any time you have a spare moment, even waiting in the supermarket queue.
But basically...it's down to you. If you want to compose, get some manuscript paper (if you're working along conventional lines) and start.
I try to compose "in my head" at first, write it down in short score then try out the harmony etc at a keyboard. It means lots of revisions (in my case) but I get a far better sense of shape and harmony than if I sit at the piano and try to compose from there. But it's whatever method suits you best.
Be sure, though, no book is going to teach you to compose...the best it can do is show you some tools and help you use them.
Good luck.
It's true the board contains less on composition than perforrmance but that could be because i) the AB doesn't do a run of exams in composition (more's the pity but it would be a difficult subject to examine on - how do you examine individuality?) and ii) it's unique to the individual along with its many problems that have to be solved.
I reckon the best route is to study the music you play or like in greater depth; come to understand its structure; develop an inner ear so you can develop the work in your head etc etc. If you want to compose orchestral music, a facility with score reading (reconstructing the sound in your head) is valuable - more so than most of the books on orchestration you'll find around. Score reading is something you can do any time you have a spare moment, even waiting in the supermarket queue.
But basically...it's down to you. If you want to compose, get some manuscript paper (if you're working along conventional lines) and start.
I try to compose "in my head" at first, write it down in short score then try out the harmony etc at a keyboard. It means lots of revisions (in my case) but I get a far better sense of shape and harmony than if I sit at the piano and try to compose from there. But it's whatever method suits you best.
Be sure, though, no book is going to teach you to compose...the best it can do is show you some tools and help you use them.
Good luck.
Hi,
I love to compose music outside the Theory Examinations. The Theory syllabus are excellent for learning you how to compose. I've learned about how to Phrase, how many bars make a good melody and whether to use Ternary or Binary form.
Saying that, the other way i have learned is by writing notes on a piece of manuscript and seeing what happens. I then goto the Piano and play it and then change some notes. Recently I wrote a piece from thought, I let go and just allowed myself to write a few notes. Sometimes it sounds great sometimes it doesn't.
Start off with small pieces, perhaps write about someone or something. This will help you put your feelings into a piece. For example, look at a tree and write about it, what do you feel about the tree, are there any branches? Is the tree on its own, would you like to climb it and so on. I use to write poems about the way i sometimes feel, now I write a short piece of music. My own
A bit of trial and error, don't expect to write an opera in the first few months. Above all, enjoy it!
All the very best, maybe one day we will be able to see one another's work being published?!
Craig
I love to compose music outside the Theory Examinations. The Theory syllabus are excellent for learning you how to compose. I've learned about how to Phrase, how many bars make a good melody and whether to use Ternary or Binary form.
Saying that, the other way i have learned is by writing notes on a piece of manuscript and seeing what happens. I then goto the Piano and play it and then change some notes. Recently I wrote a piece from thought, I let go and just allowed myself to write a few notes. Sometimes it sounds great sometimes it doesn't.
Start off with small pieces, perhaps write about someone or something. This will help you put your feelings into a piece. For example, look at a tree and write about it, what do you feel about the tree, are there any branches? Is the tree on its own, would you like to climb it and so on. I use to write poems about the way i sometimes feel, now I write a short piece of music. My own
A bit of trial and error, don't expect to write an opera in the first few months. Above all, enjoy it!
All the very best, maybe one day we will be able to see one another's work being published?!
Craig
I love to compose, and I get my pupils to compose.
I also call it improvisation - and they're much happier to tell me that their 6th practice of the week was used for playing through ready for the lesson and IMPROVISATION rather that composition (they also can play known pieces "repertoire"), as composition implies something remembered in full, or even something written down.
Composition is (when you have a go) so much EASIER than one would expect.
Composition is (when you try to achieve what you really want to achieve) so much HARDER than one would expect.
I really agree with the last two posts about the idea of HAVING A GO. I have a music degree, which taught me lots and gave me perspective on lots of music. However, to write music really well (rather than to not be wrong or inappropriate harmonically or not what the lecturer prefers in some way) you need to make the task and the goals your own, and let it develop and mould your style(s) until it all "gels" and makes unified sense as a style (for each piece perhaps).
Horses and courses I think - run yourself, and also get structured input from somewhere.
Horses and courses. Really........
I also call it improvisation - and they're much happier to tell me that their 6th practice of the week was used for playing through ready for the lesson and IMPROVISATION rather that composition (they also can play known pieces "repertoire"), as composition implies something remembered in full, or even something written down.
Composition is (when you have a go) so much EASIER than one would expect.
Composition is (when you try to achieve what you really want to achieve) so much HARDER than one would expect.
I really agree with the last two posts about the idea of HAVING A GO. I have a music degree, which taught me lots and gave me perspective on lots of music. However, to write music really well (rather than to not be wrong or inappropriate harmonically or not what the lecturer prefers in some way) you need to make the task and the goals your own, and let it develop and mould your style(s) until it all "gels" and makes unified sense as a style (for each piece perhaps).
Horses and courses I think - run yourself, and also get structured input from somewhere.
Horses and courses. Really........
I love composing!
And I definitely agree with that! That just about sums up the whole matter
| QUOTE |
| Composition is (when you have a go) so much EASIER than one would expect. Composition is (when you try to achieve what you really want to achieve) so much HARDER than one would expect. |
And I definitely agree with that! That just about sums up the whole matter
So you can see, DGA, everyone has their methodology and it would take you just to start to be en route to finding your own.
as a matter of fact...i absolutely HATE composing...because i compose STUPID music..... it's terrible
Don't worry, Liebe_Klavier, I'm sure you'll get better
| QUOTE (DGA @ Nov 11 2004, 09:07 AM) |
| I've read dozens of topics about performance in these forums. But does anyone like to compose? Not just composing for a theory exam, I mean. Where do you learn? |
Typically, nowadays, you learn composition at a university or at a conservatoire. I suppose private lessons with an experienced composer is still a possibility, and during the early part of the 20th C. you could become an apprentice to an organist, who would teach both performance and composition; I don't know whether the last is still possible. As between university and conservatoire, you will get the basics (e.g. counterpoint and orchestration) from either, but one advantage of a conservatoire is that you will be able to get better performances of your pieces. You need to hear what you write, to find out what works and what doesn't.
I took a music degree when I retired, 10 years ago, with composition and analysis as my final year subjects, and since graduating I have been continuing to study composition at the same place. I have managed to get a few pieces performed within the University, but it was hard work to get an ensemble together, to find a time when we could rehearse, and to achieve an adequate standard, partly because in a smallish Music Department there were rather few performance specialists, and only a minority of the others achieved an adequate standard on their instruments. I have found it more rewarding to write works for my amateur chamber musician friends, who include many better sight readers and quick learners than most of my fellow students were. I have also written works for a small string orchestra that I used to conduct.
One way of learning orchestration is to make arrangements of pieces that you like. I have arranged several Mozart movements for wind ensembles of various sizes. There are many books about orchestration. At the minimum you need one that gives ranges of all the instruments for which you want to write. Listening to interesting pieces while following a score is a good way to learn how to make interesting sounds.
I also love to compose but still a long way to go.
Dear Kenn
I enjoyed reading your post. Composing for an Orchestra is something I am very interested in, thanks for the tips.
Anybody composed music for Opera/Voice (4 part writing, I really enjoy that)?
All the best,
Craig
I enjoyed reading your post. Composing for an Orchestra is something I am very interested in, thanks for the tips.
Anybody composed music for Opera/Voice (4 part writing, I really enjoy that)?
All the best,
Craig
Hi Craig,
yes, I've done some choral stuff; sometimes standard four-part SATB and some for SSA or SSSA. Great fun.
Maggie
| QUOTE |
| Anybody composed music for Opera/Voice (4 part writing, I really enjoy that)? |
yes, I've done some choral stuff; sometimes standard four-part SATB and some for SSA or SSSA. Great fun.
Maggie
| QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Nov 11 2004, 10:42 AM) |
| I suppose one starts to compose because one feels impelled to compose. So...you just start. It's true the board contains less on composition than perforrmance but that could be because i) the AB doesn't do a run of exams in composition (more's the pity but it would be a difficult subject to examine on - how do you examine individuality?) and ii) it's unique to the individual along with its many problems that have to be solved. I reckon the best route is to study the music you play or like in greater depth; come to understand its structure; develop an inner ear so you can develop the work in your head etc etc. If you want to compose orchestral music, a facility with score reading (reconstructing the sound in your head) is valuable - more so than most of the books on orchestration you'll find around. Score reading is something you can do any time you have a spare moment, even waiting in the supermarket queue. But basically...it's down to you. If you want to compose, get some manuscript paper (if you're working along conventional lines) and start. I try to compose "in my head" at first, write it down in short score then try out the harmony etc at a keyboard. It means lots of revisions (in my case) but I get a far better sense of shape and harmony than if I sit at the piano and try to compose from there. But it's whatever method suits you best. Be sure, though, no book is going to teach you to compose...the best it can do is show you some tools and help you use them. Good luck. |
Yes, I always have a lot of new music in my head that come from a few things like inspired by the piece I play, my own composition, or improvisation. Somehow I can still compose even by humming in the bathroom... When I try to write them down on manuscript paper I usually can do it, but when I play it it sounds funny. Or, in other words, I can't "translate" the live music inside my head properly into sheet music, even though I've always believed I have a sense of music, or "perfect pitch" (something like that).
And that means a lot of revisions. Usually when I start putting the music in the computer (by a notation program) I make a lot of differences from the original manuscript. Sometimes the original is only half-finished and I compose the rest in the computer, because you can hear it immediately after you type the note. My translation problem is sometimes bothering in a theory exam, because a melody that I think sounds OK in written paper, really sounds strange when played. Any suggestions? (In fact, I'm attempting to compose a Sonata in G major after arranging Beethoven's Ode to Joy for a chamber group)
| QUOTE (DGA @ Nov 12 2004, 05:02 AM) |
| My translation problem is sometimes bothering in a theory exam, because a melody that I think sounds OK in written paper, really sounds strange when played. Any suggestions? |
What about practicing going in the other direction?
i.e. transcribing tunes by ear to manuscript paper (without checking on an instrument until finished).
| QUOTE (cecilia @ Nov 11 2004, 09:00 PM) |
| Don't worry, Liebe_Klavier, I'm sure you'll get better |
thanks for the comment...i'lll work hard....
| QUOTE (DGA @ Nov 12 2004, 10:02 AM) |
| When I try to write them down on manuscript paper I usually can do it, but when I play it it sounds funny. Or, in other words, I can't "translate" the live music inside my head properly into sheet music, even though I've always believed I have a sense of music, or "perfect pitch" (something like that). And that means a lot of revisions. Usually when I start putting the music in the computer (by a notation program) I make a lot of differences from the original manuscript. Sometimes the original is only half-finished and I compose the rest in the computer, because you can hear it immediately after you type the note. |
The point is, you improve by degrees even if some days seem better than the other. . So why not keep working with your current method. It will probably evolve as you go along, if need be. . .Once you have a larger plan in mind (such as you describe) and things start to fall into place, the discrepancy between what you hear inwardly and write out will gradually close.
Many composers just sit at a piano or whatever else, and compose on spec and many are perfectly successful at that.
May I ask what instrument you play? Are you composing for this instrument. . .If you're trying something on a piano for a different instrument it may not sound as you'd hoped. . .But it's only practice and developing your inner ear that'll sort this out. .
It's fairly essential if you decide to write for an ensemble or orchestra. A piano "try-out" is fine and it might sound very nice but it'll probably take on a very different shape when you score it. Then again, it might sound horrid whereas in its eventual orchestration may be just what you want. You have to get used to converting from one to the other in your head.
Do you try things out on a keyboard? You mention a computer and hearing a note instantly when you key it in? I find revision at a piano faster and more 'in your face'. You can try out dozens of revisions, new harmonies, rhythmic details etc in the instant, without your hands as much as leaving the keyboard (except to scribble stuff down)...
The recording feature of most digital pianos presents quite a temptation - I have yet to get such an instrument...
Good luck with your choral arranging...try to make it less tiring that Beehoven's won't you?!!
| QUOTE (sutty_73 @ Nov 12 2004, 08:58 AM) |
| Anybody composed music for Opera/Voice (4 part writing, I really enjoy that)? |
Hi Craig,
Oh yes...I'm a bit hooked on 16C polyphony and love to try my hand now and again. Trouble is, unless I go into a modern idiom it usually sounds like someone trying to imitate Palestrina! (Luckily a small group of my students are willing to suffer trying my bits and pieces out).
Maybe it's time to write a new spem in allum...41 voices?
| QUOTE |
| spem in allum... |
spam with garlic ??
| QUOTE (maggiemay @ Nov 12 2004, 10:56 PM) | ||
spam with garlic ?? |
Ohhh, no-o-o-oh!!! (claps hand to forehead)
Don't tell me! I broke the rules by posting "spem"???? The moderator Talli(e)s these things, I bet.
Spem with garlic to keep were-composers at bay - they tend to howl in four parts when the moon is high!
i hate composing, but have to do it for A-level. im supposed to be writing a clarinet piece with piano. ive done 1movement erm woohooo!!!!
| QUOTE |
| Spem with garlic to keep were-composers at bay - they tend to howl in four parts when the moon is high! |
only four ???????? I would have thought they could do better .........
well, no doubt they howl in variis linguis !
Maggie
| QUOTE (maggiemay @ Nov 13 2004, 04:17 PM) | ||
only four ???????? I would have thought they could do better ......... well, no doubt they howl in variis linguis ! Maggie |
Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
in terra mirabili too! I think they'd love to do better but like violinists and 'cellists, they worry about too many wolf notes.
(da-dahhhh!)
You really have to be in the mood, be inspired and be willing to make the effort to notate the music one way or another. Its not easy to do but it is one of the most satisfying feelings when you create a piece of music that is your very own.
Over the years I have composed dozens of pieces of Classical and Film style music but its only over the last few years, with the aid of MIDI and modern technology that I've been able to notate them quickily and easily and also record them at the same time. I am extremely lazy when it comes to writing music and so I have come up with a great technique that works for me. I compose at the piano in short phrases and about 2 to 4 bars at a time and record them live, along with a metronome playing into my midi software. That way the music notates reasonably accurately. You can even see the notes appearing on the screen as you create them...amazing! I then spend time playing back and listening to the few bars that I've just recorded to give me time to get my next ideas, answering phrase etc. Once I have tried out a few other ideas that I am happy with, I perform and record the next section and so on and so. Eventually, I end up with a reasonable composition of anything from 1 minute to about 3 minutes duration. Finally, I go into my MIDI software and fine tune the notation so that it reads correctly if I want to print it out. The beauty of doing it this way is that, not only are you notating, but also recording too...creation and performance in one go. In doing it this way the final recording has a live feel to it also and sounds quite good. Music that is notated directly into the software and played back has a robotic feel to it of course so I dont like this method as much although it is handy if you only want to print out the music. I sometimes do a mixture of both though, i.e. some I play and some I notate. I also do some copy and pasting of repeated sections etc...very handy! I never just do a straight repeat though as it would be too obvious. Usually, I change the pitch of some phrases or add new material etc. I always try and get the music to sound as naturalistic as possible though in the final result.
Most of my pieces are short descriptive works as I am quite lazy and dont like to spend more than a few hours on any piece before I get bored. Hey, I have a real job too.
One day, using the techniques mentioned above, I spent 7 hours simultaneously composing, notating and composing a piece.... Waltz in G minor. I had latched onto a nice theme that I didn't want to lose and so spent the whole day completing and developing the theme into a 2 minute composition which I am quite proud of. I also spent three consecutive evenings (about 9 hours) notating another composition "16 Variations in Cm (in the style of Beethoven) .....I was too lazy to do the next 16 Variations!
Anyone who wants to hear some of my finished pieces can do so by going to my website www.gaetano.btinternet.co.uk
A 10 minute Sampler of pieces from my Piano Music CD Digital Horizons automatically plays when the page opens.
Please be aware that all my pieces are copyrighted so please do not copy them in any way shape or form. If you like any of them, then please buy the CD and help a struggling composer.
Many thanks
Gae
Over the years I have composed dozens of pieces of Classical and Film style music but its only over the last few years, with the aid of MIDI and modern technology that I've been able to notate them quickily and easily and also record them at the same time. I am extremely lazy when it comes to writing music and so I have come up with a great technique that works for me. I compose at the piano in short phrases and about 2 to 4 bars at a time and record them live, along with a metronome playing into my midi software. That way the music notates reasonably accurately. You can even see the notes appearing on the screen as you create them...amazing! I then spend time playing back and listening to the few bars that I've just recorded to give me time to get my next ideas, answering phrase etc. Once I have tried out a few other ideas that I am happy with, I perform and record the next section and so on and so. Eventually, I end up with a reasonable composition of anything from 1 minute to about 3 minutes duration. Finally, I go into my MIDI software and fine tune the notation so that it reads correctly if I want to print it out. The beauty of doing it this way is that, not only are you notating, but also recording too...creation and performance in one go. In doing it this way the final recording has a live feel to it also and sounds quite good. Music that is notated directly into the software and played back has a robotic feel to it of course so I dont like this method as much although it is handy if you only want to print out the music. I sometimes do a mixture of both though, i.e. some I play and some I notate. I also do some copy and pasting of repeated sections etc...very handy! I never just do a straight repeat though as it would be too obvious. Usually, I change the pitch of some phrases or add new material etc. I always try and get the music to sound as naturalistic as possible though in the final result.
Most of my pieces are short descriptive works as I am quite lazy and dont like to spend more than a few hours on any piece before I get bored. Hey, I have a real job too.
One day, using the techniques mentioned above, I spent 7 hours simultaneously composing, notating and composing a piece.... Waltz in G minor. I had latched onto a nice theme that I didn't want to lose and so spent the whole day completing and developing the theme into a 2 minute composition which I am quite proud of. I also spent three consecutive evenings (about 9 hours) notating another composition "16 Variations in Cm (in the style of Beethoven) .....I was too lazy to do the next 16 Variations!
Anyone who wants to hear some of my finished pieces can do so by going to my website www.gaetano.btinternet.co.uk
A 10 minute Sampler of pieces from my Piano Music CD Digital Horizons automatically plays when the page opens.
Please be aware that all my pieces are copyrighted so please do not copy them in any way shape or form. If you like any of them, then please buy the CD and help a struggling composer.
Many thanks
Gae
| QUOTE (Gae @ Nov 16 2004, 11:35 PM) |
| [color=red]You really have to be in the mood, be inspired and be willing to make the effort to notate the music one way or another. Â Its not easy to do but it is one of the most satisfying feelings when you create a piece of music that is your very own. |
But it does take an amount of self-discipline and psyching up if you're working on commissions.
| QUOTE |
| I am extremely lazy when it comes to writing music and so I have come up with a great technique that works for me. I compose at the piano in short phrases and about 2 to 4 bars at a time and record them live, along with a metronome playing into my midi software. |
It suits some people. I write more contrapuntally (not strict counterpoint often, thank heavens!). So I tend to write out a phrase or so before ever trying it on an instrument. Line is important. If it doesn't meet my expectations I may start a new stave or rub some of it out. As I often write for an ensemble of which I'm a part, I like to keep the instrumental sound in mind - no piano or midi stuff helps with that.
| QUOTE |
| You can even see the notes appearing on the screen as you create them...amazing! |
| QUOTE |
| In doing it this way the final recording has a live feel to it also and sounds quite good. |
This is a matter of deliberation. A discerning listener might not agree than a pre-programmed electronic performance has a live feel... Of course, if you're into today's pop music it's a suspension of belief that anything is live...no?
| QUOTE |
| although it is handy if you only want to print out the music. |
That's the boon about this software.
| QUOTE |
| I also do some copy and pasting of repeated sections etc...very handy! |
| QUOTE |
| I never just do a straight repeat though as it would be too obvious. |
| QUOTE |
| Most of my pieces are short descriptive works as I am quite lazy and dont like to spend more than a few hours on any piece before I get bored. |
| QUOTE |
| Hey, I have a real job too. |
| QUOTE |
| One day.....I spent 7 hours simultaneously composing, notating and composing a piece.... Waltz in G minor. I had latched onto a nice theme that I didn't want to lose and so spent the whole day completing and developing the theme into a 2 minute composition which I am quite proud of. Â I also spent three consecutive evenings (about 9 hours) notating another composition "16 Variations in Cm (in the style of Beethoven) .....I was too lazy to do the next 16 Variations! |
That's nice... And a lovely retro touch, using keys. I can't remember the last time I did - another prob about using notating software - I have to enter every bloomin inflection. However, may I venture the view that you are hardly a "struggling composer" if you couldn't fight the laziness...!!! Schubert had this trouble - wrote almost as many unfinished as finished symphonies!
Generally, I'm happier trying compositions out on a piano rather than suffer an attempted synthesis of ensemble music on a midi set. Live? Way-hayyy! When I get my Neumann mikes I'll record it live. One tends to exploit the qualities of individual instruments for which no adquate samples exist (I daresay the VSL set would give you a sporting chance - alas, I'm not wealthy enough for that!
Good luck. Keep it going - but...what instrument(s) do you write for?
I'd find it hard to describe my "style". Somwhere between Henze (of the Cantatas and Undine) and David Bedford (of Music for Albion Moonlight), Palestrina and Pete Rugolo (of Behind Brigitte Bardot) but influenced heavily by my earlier inroads into electronic music. I had to fight the influence of Current 93's Live at Bar Maldoror like a musical hellcat.
I'm old enough to have built and used analogue synthesisers - a fad of the 80s. I built a polyphonic controller using a (now ancient) Z80 processor, I think...and an 8-block S/H chip. All good fun. Only 8 voices polyphony but that was enough in terms of VCOs VCAs EGs Filters etc!!! Mostly they were used to process other sounds though so I suppose you classify the result as electroacoustic.
I did a fairly extended one using just a dustbin lid, changing it, coaxing tunes from it using a delay line to alter the pitch (a very long one for those days). Darn sight easier these days with samplers.
I could make the keyboard span any compass simply by adjusting its output above or below the 1v/oct standard.
I'm old enough to have built and used analogue synthesisers - a fad of the 80s. I built a polyphonic controller using a (now ancient) Z80 processor, I think...and an 8-block S/H chip. All good fun. Only 8 voices polyphony but that was enough in terms of VCOs VCAs EGs Filters etc!!! Mostly they were used to process other sounds though so I suppose you classify the result as electroacoustic.
I did a fairly extended one using just a dustbin lid, changing it, coaxing tunes from it using a delay line to alter the pitch (a very long one for those days). Darn sight easier these days with samplers.
I could make the keyboard span any compass simply by adjusting its output above or below the 1v/oct standard.
Rhapsodin, If you'd have spent a bit more time reading my post rather than proclaiming an out-dated musical snobbery and character assassination of me and my composing method you might have noticed that I put a link up to my website containing samples of my Piano Music.
Obviously you are so busy putting people down when they offer an insight into their world that you dont notice little details like that.
Please dont bother listening to my music though if you are going to bring along your obvious prejudices and concerns of self aggrandisement.
Gae
Obviously you are so busy putting people down when they offer an insight into their world that you dont notice little details like that.
Please dont bother listening to my music though if you are going to bring along your obvious prejudices and concerns of self aggrandisement.
Gae
Woah, calm down!
One thing a musician has to learn is how to deal with criticism. Constructive Criticism is what we all want but most often people will say things to us without taking our feelings into account. Don't let people get to you, everyone has an opinion. If your music feels right to you then you are half way there in wanting others to enjoy it.
Best of luck with your work,
Regards,
Craig
One thing a musician has to learn is how to deal with criticism. Constructive Criticism is what we all want but most often people will say things to us without taking our feelings into account. Don't let people get to you, everyone has an opinion. If your music feels right to you then you are half way there in wanting others to enjoy it.
Best of luck with your work,
Regards,
Craig
| QUOTE (Gae @ Nov 17 2004, 03:42 PM) |
| Rhapsodin, If you'd have spent a bit more time reading my post rather than proclaiming an out-dated musical snobbery and character assassination of me and my composing method you might have noticed that I put a link up to my website containing samples of my Piano Music. Obviously you are so busy putting people down when they offer an insight into their world that you dont notice little details like that. Please dont bother listening to my music though if you are going to bring along your obvious prejudices and concerns of self aggrandisement. Gae |
I don't think Rhapsodin meant to offend you. I think he was just offering his point of view. And, as sutty_73 said, you have to learn to deal with criticism if you are to be a musician!
| QUOTE (Gae @ Nov 17 2004, 02:42 PM) |
| Rhapsodin, If you'd have spent a bit more time reading my post rather |
Goodness, what ARE you talking about? I answered your post item by item. The topic is about "Composition...anyone?" Being an 'anyone' I presumed I could contribute and contrast myself with your approach as I have with others.
| QUOTE |
| [color=red]...than proclaiming an out-dated musical snobbery and character assassination of me and my composing method... |
Assassinate your character? Hey, we aren't even acquainted. But it looks like you made a good go at assassinating mine! "Out-dated musical snobbery"? Later:"bring along your obvious prejudices and concerns of self aggrandisement." . .I don't recall maligning you on the same scale? Did I?
I don't mind in that I'd far sooner people were honest and/or forthright with me - that's just me, though.
| QUOTE |
| ...you might have noticed that I put a link up to my website containing samples of my Piano Music.Obviously you are so busy putting people down when they offer an insight into their world that you dont notice little details like that. Please dont bother listening to my music though if you are going to bring along your obvious prejudices and concerns of self aggrandisement. Â Gae |
This is always a problem with discussion through this medium, without the normal signals of face to face conversation. One tends to read literally until well acquainted.
I present as honest a face as I can. It's a nice board where people can do that and let their hair down a bit.
Apologies, then. Though if you wish to have the last word please go ahead....
best wishes
R
Gae, if you're still about, it strikes me I can edit the post that offended you, down to almost nothing. I'll do that if you'd feel happier.
R
R
Gae
It appears to me that you have deliberately posted a link,so people can have the opportunity...if they so want too...to purchase your CD.
"A 10 minute Sampler of pieces from my Piano Music CD Digital Horizons automatically plays when the page opens.
Please be aware that all my pieces are copyrighted so please do not copy them in any way shape or form."
After listening to your "compositions"...the first three for about 5 secs each... I doubt whether anybody would want to copy them....so I would n`t worry about copyright just yet. I can fully appreciate Rhapsodin`s comments that were made constructively to help you "mature" and "grow" in your leanings towards composing.
Rhapsodin is a very gifted composer.
It appears to me that you have deliberately posted a link,so people can have the opportunity...if they so want too...to purchase your CD.
"A 10 minute Sampler of pieces from my Piano Music CD Digital Horizons automatically plays when the page opens.
Please be aware that all my pieces are copyrighted so please do not copy them in any way shape or form."
After listening to your "compositions"...the first three for about 5 secs each... I doubt whether anybody would want to copy them....so I would n`t worry about copyright just yet. I can fully appreciate Rhapsodin`s comments that were made constructively to help you "mature" and "grow" in your leanings towards composing.
Rhapsodin is a very gifted composer.
PS I have no intention of editing my previous post.
Rhapsodin,
First of all my humblest of apologies for what appears to be a genuine mistake of my mis-reading of your replies. I think the problem being that I read the use of the word "you" as personal rather than in its use of speaking generally about people. I take back everything I said and apologise deeply if I offended you. It was a knee jerk reaction to a genuine mistake that I shouldn't have allowed to happen. Without labouring the point I will try and explain how I read some of your responses.
I said......You can even see the notes appearing on the screen as you create them...amazing!
You said....
Far out. . .Same happens when I put pencil to ms paper, the notes just....appear before me - just wish the right ones would!
I read this as a sarcastic reply....
I said...
In doing it this way the final recording has a live feel to it also and sounds quite good.
This is a matter of deliberation. A discerning listener might not agree than a pre-programmed electronic performance has a live feel... Of course, if you're into today's pop music it's a suspension of belief that anything is live...no?
I wrongly read "if you're into todays pop music" as another personal attack on my personal musical Level and tastes, plus I had mentioned that I perform the music live on my keyboard and so I thought you were still calling my performance as being "pre-programmed and electronic"
I said...
I also do some copy and pasting of repeated sections etc...very handy!
You said...
Unless you're becoming the new Mike Nyman, Ugh! But you'll get rich in a pop studio.
Here again I took the "Ugh!" and the "You" as a personal address.
I said...
Most of my pieces are short descriptive works as I am quite lazy and dont like to spend more than a few hours on any piece before I get bored.
You said....
Why is that? Aren't you worried that if you get bored with your composition, so will your listeners most likely?
I would like to think I was being a bit humble and modest hear but I do think that this reaction could be misconstrued as a personal attack! Surely you can see this? I didn't know whether or not you had listened to any of my music at this point.
I said...
One day.....I spent 7 hours simultaneously composing, notating and composing a piece.... Waltz in G minor. I had latched onto a nice theme that I didn't want to lose and so spent the whole day completing and developing the theme into a 2 minute composition which I am quite proud of. I also spent three consecutive evenings (about 9 hours) notating another composition "16 Variations in Cm (in the style of Beethoven) .....I was too lazy to do the next 16 Variations!
You said
That's nice... And a lovely retro touch, using keys.
Here again I read this as a sarcastic remark to do with the fact that you thought that I didn't play my instrument at all during the recording process.
You said...
However, may I venture the view that you are hardly a "struggling composer" if you couldn't fight the laziness...!!! Schubert had this trouble - wrote almost as many unfinished as finished symphonies
I didn't really get this, but by this time I was so fuming after mis-reading several of your responses that I just took it as another insult.
You said....
Good luck. Keep it going - but...what instrument(s) do you write for?
This did get me thinking "After all the comments and what , at the time, I thought were insults, you hadn't even taken the time to follow the Link and listen to my music"
Once again, Rhapsodin, I apologise for the mis-understanding, I hope you can see why I made them and I take back everything I called you. If you get a chance, maybe you could pop over to my web-site and listen to my music. I need some support now after the comments by GuestWho who I will now reply briefly to.
GuestWho, you are entitled to your opinion of course but anyone who proclaims judgement on any piece of music after just a few brief seconds of exposure to it is pretty ignorant if you ask me. Also, anyone who purposefully sets out to offend someone's work which they have put their heart and soul into is pretty insensitive. Do you even like Piano Music? I am proud of my music and nothing you will say will change that feeling of pride that I have. I won't even suggest that you listen to the rest of the samples and not just a couple because I cant be bothered.
Incidentally, what instrument do you play and do you compose at all yourself? I bet you dont or cant even. If you do, please give me the privelege of hearing it so I can hear what a "Good" composer sounds like.
GuestWho said...
The topic was about "Composing" and so I put a link up to my compositions which I thought was relevant to the Topic. On my website, yes, I do have the facility to buy any of my music if desired. I haven't broken any Laws have I?
Rhapsodin, once again I'm sorry about the whole mix up. Can we start again? Incidentally, can I hear samples of your music anywhere? I'd be interested to hear it.
Gae
First of all my humblest of apologies for what appears to be a genuine mistake of my mis-reading of your replies. I think the problem being that I read the use of the word "you" as personal rather than in its use of speaking generally about people. I take back everything I said and apologise deeply if I offended you. It was a knee jerk reaction to a genuine mistake that I shouldn't have allowed to happen. Without labouring the point I will try and explain how I read some of your responses.
I said......You can even see the notes appearing on the screen as you create them...amazing!
You said....
Far out. . .Same happens when I put pencil to ms paper, the notes just....appear before me - just wish the right ones would!
I read this as a sarcastic reply....
I said...
In doing it this way the final recording has a live feel to it also and sounds quite good.
This is a matter of deliberation. A discerning listener might not agree than a pre-programmed electronic performance has a live feel... Of course, if you're into today's pop music it's a suspension of belief that anything is live...no?
I wrongly read "if you're into todays pop music" as another personal attack on my personal musical Level and tastes, plus I had mentioned that I perform the music live on my keyboard and so I thought you were still calling my performance as being "pre-programmed and electronic"
I said...
I also do some copy and pasting of repeated sections etc...very handy!
You said...
Unless you're becoming the new Mike Nyman, Ugh! But you'll get rich in a pop studio.
Here again I took the "Ugh!" and the "You" as a personal address.
I said...
Most of my pieces are short descriptive works as I am quite lazy and dont like to spend more than a few hours on any piece before I get bored.
You said....
Why is that? Aren't you worried that if you get bored with your composition, so will your listeners most likely?
I would like to think I was being a bit humble and modest hear but I do think that this reaction could be misconstrued as a personal attack! Surely you can see this? I didn't know whether or not you had listened to any of my music at this point.
I said...
One day.....I spent 7 hours simultaneously composing, notating and composing a piece.... Waltz in G minor. I had latched onto a nice theme that I didn't want to lose and so spent the whole day completing and developing the theme into a 2 minute composition which I am quite proud of. I also spent three consecutive evenings (about 9 hours) notating another composition "16 Variations in Cm (in the style of Beethoven) .....I was too lazy to do the next 16 Variations!
You said
That's nice... And a lovely retro touch, using keys.
Here again I read this as a sarcastic remark to do with the fact that you thought that I didn't play my instrument at all during the recording process.
You said...
However, may I venture the view that you are hardly a "struggling composer" if you couldn't fight the laziness...!!! Schubert had this trouble - wrote almost as many unfinished as finished symphonies
I didn't really get this, but by this time I was so fuming after mis-reading several of your responses that I just took it as another insult.
You said....
Good luck. Keep it going - but...what instrument(s) do you write for?
This did get me thinking "After all the comments and what , at the time, I thought were insults, you hadn't even taken the time to follow the Link and listen to my music"
Once again, Rhapsodin, I apologise for the mis-understanding, I hope you can see why I made them and I take back everything I called you. If you get a chance, maybe you could pop over to my web-site and listen to my music.
I need some support now after the comments by GuestWho who I will now reply briefly to.GuestWho, you are entitled to your opinion of course but anyone who proclaims judgement on any piece of music after just a few brief seconds of exposure to it is pretty ignorant if you ask me. Also, anyone who purposefully sets out to offend someone's work which they have put their heart and soul into is pretty insensitive. Do you even like Piano Music? I am proud of my music and nothing you will say will change that feeling of pride that I have. I won't even suggest that you listen to the rest of the samples and not just a couple because I cant be bothered.
Incidentally, what instrument do you play and do you compose at all yourself? I bet you dont or cant even. If you do, please give me the privelege of hearing it so I can hear what a "Good" composer sounds like.
GuestWho said...
| QUOTE |
| It appears to me that you have deliberately posted a link,so people can have the opportunity...if they so want too...to purchase your CD. |
The topic was about "Composing" and so I put a link up to my compositions which I thought was relevant to the Topic. On my website, yes, I do have the facility to buy any of my music if desired. I haven't broken any Laws have I?
Rhapsodin, once again I'm sorry about the whole mix up. Can we start again? Incidentally, can I hear samples of your music anywhere? I'd be interested to hear it.
Gae
Dear Gae,
Good on you! It takes great courage to do what you have said in your reply, I admire you for that.
Opinions come and go, people change their minds...I think you have a great future ahead of you, keep smiling and most of all keep enjoying what you do.
All the best,
Craig
Good on you! It takes great courage to do what you have said in your reply, I admire you for that.
Opinions come and go, people change their minds...I think you have a great future ahead of you, keep smiling and most of all keep enjoying what you do.
All the best,
Craig
Thank you Craig.
It WAS a genuine mistake. I obviously read the post at the wrong time of the day! I am not usually so reactive, but I admit, I am a bit overly sensitive about music that I have composed. I need to chill a bit about that.
Gae
It WAS a genuine mistake. I obviously read the post at the wrong time of the day! I am not usually so reactive, but I admit, I am a bit overly sensitive about music that I have composed. I need to chill a bit about that.
Gae
Oh, right, Gae,
It's time I curbed my humour especially after acknowledging that others may read literally, being the chief fault with message boards as a medium.
The remark about 'notes magically appearing from my pencil re yours appearing on the screen' was, yes, a quip - not intended sarcastically - rather just a rejoinder over music notation software being just a more complicated way of doing something simple.
Coming from a slightly earlier age, I made a little 4-stave manuscript book to carry around - not unknown to stop to jot something in the middle of a supermarket. There'll come a day when that's replaced with hard-/software and no doubt I'll buy it.
As for the remark about a nice retro-touch using keys, I meant as in key-signatures. Sorry. The rest of the line obviously didn't clarify. There'll always be rivalry between the school that uses key signatures and the one that doesn't. No doubt chance for discussion will appear. Again, approach, some people use them, some don't.
Repeats...hmm, the great Masters used them under 'recapitulation' of course. Again a jibe, oh dear. I do use formal structures at times but tend to through-compose.
However, people like Nyman, Glass and others (including pop music based on verses and choruses) use them so the remark was more a reflection of me. And you would be perfectly entitled to pronounce it a failing and obvious prejudice on my part!
What's downed me (I feel quite upset actually) is that if I have a role it's to encourage others to compose and from your reaction I came across quite the opposite. I "teach" composition. How can you do that, you may well ask? Quite right, you can't. . . . My best hope is to guide and help others develop tools for the job. So I bow my head in shame here.
You have no reason to apologise....I should have trodden more carefully. 100% agree with Sutty_73....it takes a lot of courage to come back as you have. Hasn't gone unnoticed by everyone, I'm sure.
Even so, I'll always be happier if others are candid as opposed to circumspect, so address me as you will. . .Through numerous rejections, I've learned to take a bit of a caning.
So all good wishes with your compositions. Your method is your own. It will evolve in many ways as with all composers. It's sacrosanct.
R
It's time I curbed my humour especially after acknowledging that others may read literally, being the chief fault with message boards as a medium.
The remark about 'notes magically appearing from my pencil re yours appearing on the screen' was, yes, a quip - not intended sarcastically - rather just a rejoinder over music notation software being just a more complicated way of doing something simple.
Coming from a slightly earlier age, I made a little 4-stave manuscript book to carry around - not unknown to stop to jot something in the middle of a supermarket. There'll come a day when that's replaced with hard-/software and no doubt I'll buy it.
As for the remark about a nice retro-touch using keys, I meant as in key-signatures. Sorry. The rest of the line obviously didn't clarify. There'll always be rivalry between the school that uses key signatures and the one that doesn't. No doubt chance for discussion will appear. Again, approach, some people use them, some don't.
Repeats...hmm, the great Masters used them under 'recapitulation' of course. Again a jibe, oh dear. I do use formal structures at times but tend to through-compose.
However, people like Nyman, Glass and others (including pop music based on verses and choruses) use them so the remark was more a reflection of me. And you would be perfectly entitled to pronounce it a failing and obvious prejudice on my part!
What's downed me (I feel quite upset actually) is that if I have a role it's to encourage others to compose and from your reaction I came across quite the opposite. I "teach" composition. How can you do that, you may well ask? Quite right, you can't. . . . My best hope is to guide and help others develop tools for the job. So I bow my head in shame here.
You have no reason to apologise....I should have trodden more carefully. 100% agree with Sutty_73....it takes a lot of courage to come back as you have. Hasn't gone unnoticed by everyone, I'm sure.
Even so, I'll always be happier if others are candid as opposed to circumspect, so address me as you will. . .Through numerous rejections, I've learned to take a bit of a caning.
So all good wishes with your compositions. Your method is your own. It will evolve in many ways as with all composers. It's sacrosanct.
R
| QUOTE (GuestWho! @ Nov 17 2004, 10:10 PM) |
| It appears to me that you have deliberately posted a link,so people can have the opportunity...if they so want too...to purchase your CD. Rhapsodin is a very gifted composer. |
I have a fan?!?!?!?! Um...thank you, GuestWho! . . .How are you today.
PLEASE edit that! I'm no great shakes or I'd be rich and famous. I was thinking of changing my name to Dee Pusey, especially after finding those hitherto unknown Prèludes, Livre 3, but would the public buy it?!?!
Gifted composer means that the composer has to give his compositions away gratis to get them played!
I've just been looking at this Schubert song - Meine Strassenbahn ist Kaput. Do you know it at all?
all the best.
Ps - worth drawing attention to the rule about advertising - I didnt say anything as this obviously wasn't a commercial venture but please be aware...
Rhapsodin,
Sometimes we learn more about people through conflict than through friendship dont we! I didn't realise that you were a "Composition" teacher. Perhaps you could give me a few pointers as obviously I dont quite reach the mark to certain, unnamed, admirers of yours.
Whoops, must'nt start again!
I suppose I should have thought a bit more about any rules regarding advertising also when I put my link up here. I'm not trying to promote my CD here honestly, I have sold a few elsewhere yes, but I always appreciate feedback, ney crave it I suppose, as composing is a solitary, financially unrewarding activity....but I have to do it! I suppose expecting to get positive feedback from people in the business is a bit naive of me...but hey, I'm a naive kind of person I guess. I know, I will never be a Schubert or a Mozart or a Gershwin as, happily for me, I have alread outlived all of them, but I always try to compose true to my own feelings, emotions and ability....and also, as a full-time teacher, to the free-time I have. Hence my quip about getting bored after a few hours....more plain old tired really. I try to communicate to people and hopefully the listener will be just un-prejudiced enough in their musical tastes to enjoy what they hear and at least take something away from it. Hopefully positive (I use this example as a generalisation of course, just so there's no confusion this time around
)
I'm still keen to hear some of your music Rhapsodin. Care to indulge me?
Gae
P.S. the remark about keys I mis-read as the keys on a Piano!
You see where these mistakes arise from?
Funnily enough, I use key-signatures in all the notation of my music but just not always in the titles. I even get to the point that if I download a Classical Midi and the notation has no key-signature in it but is full of accidentals, I have to change it in order to be able to read it properly. Also, it drives me mad when people dont put in the Key Signature....especially if the title is something like Nocturne No. 1 in Ab major, Opus 42
Gae
Sometimes we learn more about people through conflict than through friendship dont we! I didn't realise that you were a "Composition" teacher. Perhaps you could give me a few pointers as obviously I dont quite reach the mark to certain, unnamed, admirers of yours.
Whoops, must'nt start again!
I suppose I should have thought a bit more about any rules regarding advertising also when I put my link up here. I'm not trying to promote my CD here honestly, I have sold a few elsewhere yes, but I always appreciate feedback, ney crave it I suppose, as composing is a solitary, financially unrewarding activity....but I have to do it! I suppose expecting to get positive feedback from people in the business is a bit naive of me...but hey, I'm a naive kind of person I guess. I know, I will never be a Schubert or a Mozart or a Gershwin as, happily for me, I have alread outlived all of them, but I always try to compose true to my own feelings, emotions and ability....and also, as a full-time teacher, to the free-time I have. Hence my quip about getting bored after a few hours....more plain old tired really. I try to communicate to people and hopefully the listener will be just un-prejudiced enough in their musical tastes to enjoy what they hear and at least take something away from it. Hopefully positive (I use this example as a generalisation of course, just so there's no confusion this time around
)I'm still keen to hear some of your music Rhapsodin. Care to indulge me?
Gae
P.S. the remark about keys I mis-read as the keys on a Piano!
You see where these mistakes arise from?
Funnily enough, I use key-signatures in all the notation of my music but just not always in the titles. I even get to the point that if I download a Classical Midi and the notation has no key-signature in it but is full of accidentals, I have to change it in order to be able to read it properly. Also, it drives me mad when people dont put in the Key Signature....especially if the title is something like Nocturne No. 1 in Ab major, Opus 42
Gae
| QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Nov 12 2004, 08:49 PM) | ||
The point is, you improve by degrees even if some days seem better than the other. . So why not keep working with your current method. It will probably evolve as you go along, if need be. . .Once you have a larger plan in mind (such as you describe) and things start to fall into place, the discrepancy between what you hear inwardly and write out will gradually close. Many composers just sit at a piano or whatever else, and compose on spec and many are perfectly successful at that. May I ask what instrument you play? Are you composing for this instrument. . .If you're trying something on a piano for a different instrument it may not sound as you'd hoped. . .But it's only practice and developing your inner ear that'll sort this out. . It's fairly essential if you decide to write for an ensemble or orchestra. A piano "try-out" is fine and it might sound very nice but it'll probably take on a very different shape when you score it. Then again, it might sound horrid whereas in its eventual orchestration may be just what you want. You have to get used to converting from one to the other in your head. Do you try things out on a keyboard? You mention a computer and hearing a note instantly when you key it in? I find revision at a piano faster and more 'in your face'. You can try out dozens of revisions, new harmonies, rhythmic details etc in the instant, without your hands as much as leaving the keyboard (except to scribble stuff down)... The recording feature of most digital pianos presents quite a temptation - I have yet to get such an instrument... Good luck with your choral arranging...try to make it less tiring that Beehoven's won't you?!! |
Who says I never try them out on the piano? In fact I compose using the piano, because of my problems. I always try out a few new bars that I've just composed. But the problem is, you can't write notes comfortably when sitting on a piano stool (no table or something to write on nearby) and I don't want to mess up my manuscript paper with bad handwriting.
And, about that Beethoven thing, I'm actually attempting to make it more complex, I mean with a few variations (and a few motifs of my own).
Anyway, I've got one question...Is composing in Classical, Romantic, Baroque, etc. style (not modern) still relevant today? Do publishers now accept just dissonant 21st century music? 
| QUOTE (DGA @ Nov 18 2004, 12:50 PM) |
| Who says I never try them out on the piano? |
| QUOTE |
| And, about that Beethoven thing, I'm actually attempting to make it more complex, I mean with a few variations (and a few motifs of my own). Â |
That one eludes me...but that ain't difficult. (Edited: ) No it doesn't - I re-read my message. Best wishes with it.
R
DGA,
I cant answer that as I'm no expert, but it does beg the question as to who are the Classical Composers of today? Are they the popular Film Composers or those Avante-Garde composers who either never get heard or perform to the Rich and Musical Elite? Interestingly, there are several Concert Hall composers who write for Films and other medium and vice-versa. Personally, I cant see the point of writing a modern composition in EXACTLY the same style (Harmonically and structurally) as the Baroque, Classical, Romantic tradition other than for educational reasons, or for an Exam or another specific reason...like a requested Commission. The reason I think this is because the greatest examples of this music already exist....its all been done before and better. Unless you have a modern slant on it then it becomes redundant IMO.
Pop Music will never be the Classical Music of today because it is rooted more in Folk Music and can only really be considered in terms of its structure...i.e.that of a Song. In that sense I suppose, Pop music could be compared to certain Popular Classical Arias.
Gae
I cant answer that as I'm no expert, but it does beg the question as to who are the Classical Composers of today? Are they the popular Film Composers or those Avante-Garde composers who either never get heard or perform to the Rich and Musical Elite? Interestingly, there are several Concert Hall composers who write for Films and other medium and vice-versa. Personally, I cant see the point of writing a modern composition in EXACTLY the same style (Harmonically and structurally) as the Baroque, Classical, Romantic tradition other than for educational reasons, or for an Exam or another specific reason...like a requested Commission. The reason I think this is because the greatest examples of this music already exist....its all been done before and better. Unless you have a modern slant on it then it becomes redundant IMO.
Pop Music will never be the Classical Music of today because it is rooted more in Folk Music and can only really be considered in terms of its structure...i.e.that of a Song. In that sense I suppose, Pop music could be compared to certain Popular Classical Arias.
Gae
| QUOTE (DGA @ Nov 18 2004, 12:58 PM) |
| Anyway, I've got one question...Is composing in Classical, Romantic, Baroque, etc. style (not modern) still relevant today? Do publishers now accept just dissonant 21st century music? |
Just an opinion, any music has relevence in context. But you'd probably need to be well known for the box office to accept it for the concert hall. The concert going / CD buying public would probably prefer the original simply because it did reach a refinement that would be difficult to match second time round...not impossible, just difficult.
Publishers accept music on its merits, whether it suits their style, audience reaction and lots of other factors, don't they? Different publishers seem to prefer different genres. Only way is to browse their catalogues.
Hi Gaetano!
I like your music (although if you don't squeeze any money out of me for buying it you're in good company with the likes of a lot of Ravel, Debussy, Mahler, Wagner etc. that I also haven't bought).
My kids have been watching Buster Keaton in "The General" quite a lot and for some reason your "Rum Rhumba" reminded me of that.
I was rather sad to read your comments to Rhapsodin yesterday, and glad you have patched up your differences today.
I think to anyone new to this website, the total impact of having your statement dissected line by line is quite scary - nobody's done it to me yet, and it still sometimes scares me reading it on other people's posts. However the benefit is that someone can make nine or ten points in a single post, and someone else can respond to each point in a single post, rather than have the same conversation over the course of about 20 posts. Rhapsodin does sometimes make quite flippant jokey comments (nothing wrong with that), but he evidently took quite a long time thinking about and responding to your post in a way which I am sure was not intended to offend, and which in many ways is quite flattering.
PS.
Although Viva World has a geographical span the size of our planet, it has a population size more akin to that of a nuclear submarine - none of us can afford to fall out (with the exception of course, of "advice for a parent friend of mine" in general forum, which became a cathartic experience for all of us).
I like your music (although if you don't squeeze any money out of me for buying it you're in good company with the likes of a lot of Ravel, Debussy, Mahler, Wagner etc. that I also haven't bought).
My kids have been watching Buster Keaton in "The General" quite a lot and for some reason your "Rum Rhumba" reminded me of that.
I was rather sad to read your comments to Rhapsodin yesterday, and glad you have patched up your differences today.
I think to anyone new to this website, the total impact of having your statement dissected line by line is quite scary - nobody's done it to me yet, and it still sometimes scares me reading it on other people's posts. However the benefit is that someone can make nine or ten points in a single post, and someone else can respond to each point in a single post, rather than have the same conversation over the course of about 20 posts. Rhapsodin does sometimes make quite flippant jokey comments (nothing wrong with that), but he evidently took quite a long time thinking about and responding to your post in a way which I am sure was not intended to offend, and which in many ways is quite flattering.
PS.
Although Viva World has a geographical span the size of our planet, it has a population size more akin to that of a nuclear submarine - none of us can afford to fall out (with the exception of course, of "advice for a parent friend of mine" in general forum, which became a cathartic experience for all of us).
| QUOTE (zoda @ Nov 18 2004, 01:43 PM) |
| it has a population size more akin to that of a nuclear submarine - none of us can afford to fall out |
atomic fall out?
(all right, all right, just goin')
(all right, all right, just goin') [/QUOTE]
lol
lol
Zoda, thanks for the compliments, I appreciate it a lot. And no, I dont expect you to buy my CD! To be honest, the people who have bought a copy in the past have been friends, family, associates etc I'm sure just for the novelty of having a CD of music by a composer they know and still living(Just!!)
Gae
To be honest, the people who have bought a copy in the past have been friends, family, associates etc I'm sure just for the novelty of having a CD of music by a composer they know and still living(Just!!) Gae
| QUOTE (Gae @ Nov 18 2004, 01:10 PM) |
| DGA, I cant answer that as I'm no expert, but it does beg the question as to who are the Classical Composers of today? Are they the popular Film Composers or those Avante-Garde composers who either never get heard or perform to the Rich and Musical Elite? Interestingly, there are several Concert Hall composers who write for Films and other medium and vice-versa. Personally, I cant see the point of writing a modern composition in EXACTLY the same style (Harmonically and structurally) as the Baroque, Classical, Romantic tradition other than for educational reasons, or for an Exam or another specific reason...like a requested Commission. The reason I think this is because the greatest examples of this music already exist....its all been done before and better. Unless you have a modern slant on it then it becomes redundant IMO. Pop Music will never be the Classical Music of today because it is rooted more in Folk Music and can only really be considered in terms of its structure...i.e.that of a Song. In that sense I suppose, Pop music could be compared to certain Popular Classical Arias. Gae |
Anyway, nobody wants to compose exactly like they did in the classical periods. I mean, is it OK to compose music that's a sort of mix between classical/romantic and modern? Not completely classical, but some elements are inspired from classical/romantic style and it's not all dissonances. Certainly, I don't want to make pieces that just show off by playing the highest notes on the piano, displaying piano music on multiple staves or anything else like that.
DGA,
I only have one concern when I compose a piece of music and that is that I write something that is true to myself, my own feelings, intellect, tastes and of course, writing ability. Write music that you believe in and to the best of your ability and be proud in having the ability to create something unique....not many people can do that.
If you are doing a piece for a Compositional exam etc then of course that is different as you need to write within the guidelines of the particular brief.
Notating a few notes is easy to do, anyone can put a few sounds together, especially with all the midi software around, but it's not so easy to put together a structured piece of music that will communicate ideas and then develop thoses ideas in a hopefully moving or enjoyable way. Its a task that sometimes eludes even the best of composers...look at the tormented scribbles of Beethoven's manuscript when he was writing his 5th Symphony. How many dozens of phrases did he reject in order to come up with developments of his famous four note motif? Aapparently, the film music composer John Williams wrote about 300 five-note motifs before finally settling on the famous one from "Close Encounters". People never see all the ideas that a composer leaves out do they? They often think that they have put the first idea in their head down...if only it were true. That is why I have nothing but respect for anyone who can put together a successful composition. One thing about music I love, and why I took up a profession in music is that I strongly believe that music, more than any other language, has the power to communicate and move people of ALL cultures and races. If anything can unite people on this Planet, it is music, I'm sure.
Maybe try starting off with a free structure or maybe a simple ABA form and start experimenting more and more from there with ideas. You'd be surprised how much great music uses this simple structure. If you can compose a phrase, then another, and you can develop that phrase, melodically, rythmically, harmonically, then you are on your way.
Good Luck!
Gae
I only have one concern when I compose a piece of music and that is that I write something that is true to myself, my own feelings, intellect, tastes and of course, writing ability. Write music that you believe in and to the best of your ability and be proud in having the ability to create something unique....not many people can do that.
If you are doing a piece for a Compositional exam etc then of course that is different as you need to write within the guidelines of the particular brief.
Notating a few notes is easy to do, anyone can put a few sounds together, especially with all the midi software around, but it's not so easy to put together a structured piece of music that will communicate ideas and then develop thoses ideas in a hopefully moving or enjoyable way. Its a task that sometimes eludes even the best of composers...look at the tormented scribbles of Beethoven's manuscript when he was writing his 5th Symphony. How many dozens of phrases did he reject in order to come up with developments of his famous four note motif? Aapparently, the film music composer John Williams wrote about 300 five-note motifs before finally settling on the famous one from "Close Encounters". People never see all the ideas that a composer leaves out do they? They often think that they have put the first idea in their head down...if only it were true. That is why I have nothing but respect for anyone who can put together a successful composition. One thing about music I love, and why I took up a profession in music is that I strongly believe that music, more than any other language, has the power to communicate and move people of ALL cultures and races. If anything can unite people on this Planet, it is music, I'm sure.
Maybe try starting off with a free structure or maybe a simple ABA form and start experimenting more and more from there with ideas. You'd be surprised how much great music uses this simple structure. If you can compose a phrase, then another, and you can develop that phrase, melodically, rythmically, harmonically, then you are on your way.
Good Luck!
Gae
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