My experience is that a kid who likes music will PLAY for hours, but PRACTICE for hours...well, perhaps rare before age 11.

And there I think you've hit the proverbial nail ...

I do agree very much that some kind of guideline is useful, and perhaps even necessary, and that it's something that THE book could have usefully tackled (perhaps it did, and maybe those who've read a copy could tell us).

However the difficulty with this is that it's not just a question of putting in the time. Practice is just as likely to be the wrong sort as insufficient - it seems it's very often a combination of both.

A chart can suggest length of time, amount of practice, but the crunch is going to be contained in the quality of that practice time - whether it's proper practice or glorified messing around / playing the bits you already know. Half an hour of superficial playing through can very easily sound more productive than 15 minutes of thinking interspersed with bits of playing - and yet the latter may well be achieving more. 'If the practice sounds good it probably isn't real practice' may be a useful motto. Not an easy one though.

This is so true! Although I regularly remind students how to practise and tell them that playing through a piece once a day is NOT proper practising, I often wonder if they take this on board. Even though I mark out sections and make sure they understand what I want them to do, I'd love to be a 'fly on the wall' when they're playing at home!
Even my most hard working student came yesterday with a section I'd marked 'slow practise needed!' still sounding very unsure, so obviously she hadn't tackled it in the right way.

When I know a piece very well, and am simply keeping it going for a while prior to performance this is what I do: play each section twice, very slowly; concentrations is total; mistakes are not allowed or I am wasting my time; I follow this by playing the section up to speed. The control I gain is remarkable for such comparatively little effort.

I often show this to pupils whose passage work is not coming up to scratch, and make them do it in the lesson. Invariably, the response at the end is along the lines of, "Wow. That is fantastic."

This occasionally makes a difference to their practise at home.

Very occasionally.

Very, very occasionally.

Sounds like a good idea - I'll give it a try. Maybe the fact that they hear how well it works in the lesson will encourage them to do the same thing at home. One can only hope.....

I know this is getting a bit tangential...but I think it's fatally easy for a young child especially (who can't really judge themselves very objectively) to think that "quality is more important than quantity" really means "10 minutes of romp through my pieces is just as good as 30 minutes of romp through my pieces"!

And it's not only young children who think that just playing through from top to bottom is practice.
It can take time to get an adult beginner to take this on board.

Yes the type of practice is crucially important ---as i know. I read lots of stuff about this and have a keen interest in this subject----perhaps as it is so important-----especially if an adult is very busy or a young child only concentrates for a short time. But, is this not worth giving children on their very first lesson a copy of say, "how to practice" and importantly "how not to practice". At each lesson appropriate elements of this would be re-inforced at the appropriate time. After a while, a child would in theory and in practice know how to practice. I think teaching an instruement is really hard work if done properly, and should be done with enthausiam. Sorry to sound like i'm telling you how to teach, but i have done teaching/mentoring in other fields of work, and some of the principles are the same. Also, as i am learning an instruement, i am full of enthusiasm, and like to feel inspired by my teacher. My teacher also shows me how to practice by example------ which has been really useful.

But ---- no dought it is a difficult position, i'm sure, when a student does not practice, do they hate playing or do they not know how to practice? Perhaps they are bored? wrong kind of music??? ----so many issues!!

Let 'em go.........save yourself the heartache, the blood pressure and the frustration.

Shame about the money though

My sweet little girl pupil showed herself up in front of ambitious mother this week. I had prepared some little projects for her do while I am otherwise occupied in June. I showed them to her, explained what they were about and said I would look forward to seeing the results in a few weeks.

Well, said 8 year old (going on 28), I DOUBT whether I'll have time, because if the weathers nice, I shall be playing with my friends (she has friends????) and going swimming. I'll do them if I can!

I just looked - blank faced at Mother - who far from blank faced said with threatening menace "I can assure YOU lady, that they will be done without fail"

at which sweet childy opened her mouth (Portsmouth) and let fly a earwax loosening wail, followed by copius tears.

I'm checking to see if Sainsburys want a check-out boy

I think I might have been a bit shame faced at the time but I wouldn't have left the lesson. I would have laid it on the line over practice, once we'd left, and given the child a chance to say why it hadn't happened (if I didn't already know).

Sometimes things just have to be said straight. It might have been different had the family already explained why there was a lack of practice (even if you didn't agree with the reason). As this was a long standing situation then there probably wasn't much that could have been done ot change it.

Oh, diapason, you DO make me chuckle!!

I remember going into my lesson once, having played this particular piece I was learning millions of times during the week

I played it, pleased with myself, and my teacher said "Have you practiced that much this week?" (with the tone of voice that said "because it doesn't sound like it..."

I was mortified, cos I always practiced loads and thought that this week was no different. Turns out I hadn't practiced at all...I'd just played it a lot (including playing in lots of errors!)

Taught me a lesson anyway

Follow up to earlier post where I airily aired the views of daughter about critical teachers - now I've actually asked her! Yes, she thought her teacher was right to criticise, about lots of things but especially lack of practice. (I could tell one of THOSE lessons before she reached the car - you know: the way they walk when they come out? That air of crushed despondency?)

But she developed ways of coping when she hadn't practised (anyone recognise the last one?):
1. If she could forsee a problem with practice in the coming week, warn teacher in advance. (Lots of Brownie points for that)
2. If she forgot to do that or something unexpected came up, blurt it out at the start of the lesson with an apology (Brownie point on a good day)
3. If teacher did not look buoyant and it was going to be one of THOSE lessons anyway, she'd not admit it but think of something specific she was having trouble with and ask about that - & that could well get her through the lesson without teacher realising she hadn't worked on much else (and even earned Brownie points for having noticed a problem without it being pointed out); on one occasion the teacher told her that the lesson had quite cheered her up... oh, she was too young to learn that dishonesty can pay.

That said, the practice now tends to get done in place of school work... and she has her first A/S today. Help! (Too late for that, my lot is merely to worry.)

That's a really useful one that can get you out of a sticky situation.