A girl just arrived for her lesson - she's been coming for three or four years now and has made very little real progress since the first year. I like the mum although she can be very scary if anyone criticises her children - I had a bit of a falling out with her a couple of years back when I somewhat sullenly accused her other daughter, who I also teach, of gilding the lily when she told me she'd done any practice that week. Later on it turned out I was right and the child hadn't done any practice.

Anyway the child and mum walked in, and the first thing I asked was whether there'd been any practice. For the umpteenth time the child said 'just a little bit'. I tried patiently explaining that without practice there wouldn't be any real progress, and that I felt we'd got a little stuck lately. I asked her if she really wanted to be playing violin; she said yes. I said well in that case you have to step up your practice otherwise there won't be any progress and I'm getting a little tired of it. Then I asked what the reasons were for her lack of practice that week and the child started listing some feeble excuses - the like of which I've heard a thousand times before. I felt my blood pressure rise and said something like: 'I hear the same kind of excuses every week and I'm getting fed up with them. If you don't care enough about the violin to bother to play it between lessons please just say so. The people who practise make progress, the people who don't, don't - end of story.'

At this point the mother said 'I think we'll call off today's lesson, grabbed the child by the hand and out they went, slamming the door.

Was I wrong? I probably should have approached it in a different way by calling the mother and having a talk with her about it this evening - but let my (long suppressed) emotions get the better of me. I was tired from having had to stay up into the small hours for the last few days helping a student with his A/S music stuff - and this is probably the result.

To be honest I'm getting to the point where I'd like to let several pupils go - and she's one of them. I let one go a few weeks ago (in a much better way) and haven't regretted it for a second. I've acquired quite a few new ones recently, all of them super-enthusiastic and hard-working and am now terminally fed up with the stragglers. I'm not getting any younger and find myself thinking: is this what I want to be doing with my time? Either they're keen and work hard at least most of the time or I wish they'd go away and leave me alone!

Help!

Sounds to me like you delivered a very good lesson. Let us hope that the student (and mother) take heed of it. If you made any mistake at all it waas in not telling it how it is a lot earlier.

One famous pianist (I can't remember who - but no doubt someone on the forum will) has been quoted as saying, there are three kinds of pianists:

Those who practice a lot and admit it
Those who practice a lot and deny it
Those who do not practice, and are therfore no pianists

You can of course apply this to the instrumetn of your choice

Sometimes you need to be blunt to get the message across. You are only human, and you got annoyed because this is clearly not the first time you have been round the 'no practice' loop with this child.

Worst (best?) case scenario is that they leave - whereupon you can heave a sigh of relief. Persistent non-practisers you can do without. Don't lose any sleep over it.

Great quote Tom.

Hear, hear!!!

No, you weren't wrong, and we're preconditioned to thinking that we should approach things softly softly as you've hinted in your para above. BUT, sometimes it's good to be Very Firm, and say what you think, offend or please.

It makes you feel better, it may well have the desired effect as far as you are concerned, and may have shocked child who will realise by now that she can't get away with zilch.

The only downside is that you get nominated by this family as The Grumpy Violin Teacher and it's a description they may pass on, although it sounds as though you have lots of other very happy pupils, and probably other people will treat this woman and her ideas warily if she behaves as you have described.

[I've been in a similar position and have usually produced an exam book and said "About time we got down to some serious work" whereupon I've miraculously lost the pupil! ]

Well, then, problem solved!

Sometimes we just can't quite forgive ourselves for losing our patience with our pupils. You aren't perfect, no one can be. If you lose them, don't lose any sleep, if they come back, don't apologise, but restate your position without giving any ground. You will know how to be gracious but firm, it sounds like you are rather successful at that sort of thing 99% of the time.

Yep, I agree with most that's been said already.

That frustration was authentic, Violinia, and maybe they needed to see that. It has built up (clearly!) over some time, and has not come out of the blue. Maybe it will result in some work being done! If so, great.
If they don't come back - doesn't sound as though you mind too much.

(you will keep us posted, now??)

You were probably in the right morally but, phew! I think I would have done the same as the mum after that onslaught.

Ultimately it is the child who will suffer from lack of practice; if the lesson is spent going over old ground and practising what should have been practised already, then it is their money that is wasted in the end.
You are perfectly at liberty to terminate the agreement if you don't think she is pulling her weight, but it might have had a sweeter ending without the lecture.

Years ago, when I was writing my first book, I realised that some stuff, like preparing lectures happened anyway while other stuff, like writing the next chapter, might not.
So I switched my priorities round. I started by working on the book and then I fitted the rest of the stuff in the time left. Obviously I'm a professional and my lectures etc were always well prepared but now the writing got done too.
I've done the same thing with the children's music practice. It is the first thing that gets done and the aim is to achieve that every single day the rest of the stuff will happen anyway.
Even with that approach we don't managed everything every day but because we manage it almost every day it works.
It always possible to find a reason why you haven't got time to practice and it is almost always to practice anyway.
Dora

I guess in one way I'd be sad to lose her because the mum has always lauded me for being so patient with her frankly quite trying (not in the musical sense!) children. And now I've turned into just the grumpy kind of teacher she keeps coming up against when it come to her children - but can she keep blaming the teachers???

Recently I told her about a mum who's a persistant non-payer to such an extent that the school had to stop the child's lessons - with the result that the child was in floods of tears because I wasn't allowed to give her a lesson or explain why I wasn't allowed to teach her that week. It was very difficult and I told the story to the mum I had the bad encounter with today, expecting her to say 'poor kid - how can the mother put her through that' etc etc. But no, she blamed the school for being intolerant about the mum's non-payment, saying the school should just keep paying me anyway because 'schools have got loads of money'!

In other words she has big attitude problems towards authority and when her children get into trouble for slackness, the teacher's at fault, not the children - or not her for not keeping tabs on her children. Why can't she just set a routine where her children practise before or after school - who cares when as long as they do it at least four times a week! Grrrrrr!!!

The rest of the teaching session went well, with two great students - a little boy of 9, highly motivated (with a wonderfullly supportive mum), and a great adult who works really hard. All power to them!

Thanks for those words of comfort, Cambiata. Yes I did lose a degree of control over the situation and don't feel great about it. This is what can happen if you bottle things up for too long... I guess today my feelings about the deadbeat students came to a bit of a head. I had a similar chat with one of my school-based students this afternoon after two other kids told me she hadn't taken her violin home from school all week (yes that was telling tales but it turned out to be the truth). This same kid has also lost her book at home somewhere and neither she nor her mother can seem to be bothered to look for it - this is the kind of stuff that's beginning to drive me bonkers. The slackness!!! Aaarrggh!!!! I just feel my life's too short to be bothered with it any more; what about my own music? Why do I have to spend so much time with these people who just can't be bothered to put the effort in? Nice kids and I'm truly fond of all of them but this is supposed to be about music and me helping them to play well, not having to suffer a litany of excuses as to why they 'haven't had time to practise this week'. Also is it morally right to keep taking money off the parents when the kids aren't progressing because of lack of practice? I really don't know any more.

You're totally right about the eggshells thing - back in the past I used to be able to tell students off for practising and they'd go off and get their act together. Now they would dissolve into tears or set their angry mums on me, so I'm always doing the softly softly approach but it's made me become too soft, which is no good for anyone.

One big sigh after a long and tiring day.

On a more cheerful note, one student aged 8 came for her lesson at primary school beaming all over her face this morning, having learnt all her Grade 2 pieces by heart and played them all stunningly well. Then she played all her scales and arpeggios note perfectly. We even had time for her to learn some other repertoire which she threw her all into, as usual - bless her! I saw the mum briefly before the lesson and she told me with shining eyes how much her daughter is enjoying the violin and that she plays constantly at home - every available moment. Only one (massive) fly in the ointment here - the family are leaving the country in July. SOB! But they may be back in 3 years and the mum said if they do they will want me to resume as her teacher even if they have to drive across the city to get to my house because she'll be at secondary school by then. She is going to carry on with violin with a new teacher in the country they're going to. Why do I have to lose this delightful student of all students??? I'm really going to miss her...

I think it is always better to tell people where you stand in a calm but firm fashion rather than in the heat of the moment, but of course I understand why you snapped this evening. If we all behaved exactly as we should at every minute, we wouldn't be human!

As a parent, I think that I would feel that I had paid for the lesson and therefore it was up to me to decide when my money was doing no good. If the teacher patiently explained to me after a lesson or in a phone call that because there were eager pupils on her waiting list, she did not want to continue teaching those who put in very little practice, I would be able to spend a week thinking about the implications, and then the next week either promise to monitor practice or withdraw the child from lessons.

For the future, maybe this is a kinder approach to take. However, what's done is done, and what you do next depends on your personality. You could carry on as if the incident hadn't happened and wait for the mum either to turn up at the next lesson or not. You could write or phone the mother laying down the terms on which you would continue to teach her child, or saying that you no longer wish to teach her. You could write or phone apologising for haranguing the child with the excuse that you were tired, but saying what you feel the position to be.

Whatever you do, don't blame yourself for the incident. There is always a chain of events leading up to these things, and you are only human.

Glad to hear your more cheerful note, Violinia - bad luck they are moving away!

I had a more cheerful note too - at the end of teaching this afternoon, a pupil who's had exams all week (and who I expected to have to jolly along with an easy lesson) had learnt almost all of a new piece.

Not quite there yet - we worked a bit on some slightly tricky fingering in the middle. But a really good idea - and a page and a half! Clearly she's not been able to keep off it - and I tried to get across to her that this is WHAT IT'S ABOUT!
(*big silly grin!*) I just feel sad it's not the norm.

Now if I knew what it was and could bottle it ...

I think as a parent I'd have been pleased that the teacher was reinforcing what I'd probably been trying to get across myself.
You can approach things gently for a time but sometimes you need to put things more plainly.
If they'd both really wanted the girl to learn they'd have stayed for the lesson and put in some more effort next week.

Have to be honest, but I think a lot of teachers would have lost patience sometime ago. Somehow people expect to achieve without striving, not just in music. It's taken years for the OP to have a little mini strop. I wonder how long that would have gone on in say a state school. Teachers there tend to get to the point fairly quickly if someone is not pulling their weight. If they don't their own managers will be on to them sooner or later. Can't help feeling the OP has been very sorely tested here.

I'm afraid as I've got older I've started to feel that way too - why should I give up my time and effort in teaching those who don't really put the effort in themselves? (Except that at the moment I can't afford not to as I'm only teaching 9 pupils a week - compared to 40 18 months ago.......) But I'm definitely less patient now than I used to be (even if I don't show it......)

I had a lovely time with my first student today, a little girl taking Grade 2 at the end of June who told me that she could play all 3 pieces from memory - and did so, beautifully! But it was the opposite with my last one of the day, who almost drove me to distraction!

We're all human, Violinia, and although I'm sure you're feeling that you could have handled things better, there are moments when we just snap and I sympathise - I came very close to sending my last one home half way through his lesson!!

I'm afraid I disagree. I think that music teachers are in a position to teach more than just technique. Musicians need a lot of skills and not all of those skills are necessarily taught by school. Being firm about commitment and hard work is important and, personally uncomfortable though it can be, we can do our pupils good by having high expectations. Terminating the agreement without giving a stern warning wouldn't have taught the lesson or given this girl the chance to prove to herself that hard work is worth it.




Too right Cambiata! But then, as musicians, our brains are good at lateral thinking. You said you needed hugs: this is as close as I could find. I hope you're doing ok...

I seem to go through phases where sometimes I'm tearing my hair, and sometimes everything's going swimmingly. When I get a persistent non-practiser (I've got one just now, although it's a bit more focussed because there's an exam at the end of term) I do tend to have a heart to heart with them. Sometimes that doesn't work, and we have a "this is what I expect you to do, and look how much progress we've made in this lesson" type of lesson. If that fails, then I'm on the phone to the parent (or if it's in school I have to go through school channels).

But that said, most of those that I've had to have phone calls with are parents who've seen the writing on the wall for a while, and are not what I call "precious" parents where little Johnny can't do anything wrong.

If i had a precious parent, and the situation had been going on for a while I would be tempted to put things in writing in a letter. I think I'd be prepared to let it go maybe 2 terms before I got to that stage.

I don't know if I understood corredtly but I got the impression Violinia that you asked if the child had done any practice before she actually played. That was how I read your post - corrrect me if I am wrong.

I do occasionally do that if I know a pupil is having a heavy time. I say something like "Have you managed to do any piano this week?" However, if I have no reason to expect a genuine reason for lack of practice I don't ask but I let them stumble on until it becomes evident that it's a disaster and then I ask them to assess their performance. They usually say sheepishly "C'etait nul!" to which I reply "Et pourquoi?" - and they then get the full works follow up on Why You Must Practise.

It doesn't matter if it's an occasional thing but I do know how you feel when it builds up and I can quite sympathise with your frustration. I've got one lad in my treble recorder group who doesn't practise and so has fallen way behind the others and this prevents them from doing as well as they should. I have told his mother if he wants to continue next year he will have to have individual lessons and having given him a couple recently (to accommodate his participation in a tennis tournement and therefore missing group lessons- aren't I a nice teacher!!:?, or a daft one,!!?? I am rather hoping (guiltily) that he will decide he can't stand the pace!

Seriously I think it is part of our job to make it plain that music cannot be enjoyable if you don't work at it.
But sometimes pupils and/or parents don't want to learn that lesson. You can only go so far - they have to pull their weight too.

True, but teachers in a state school can't ditch their pupils for not working! And the parents can't take their offspring home if they take offence - though as nonmusimum can testify, they can make things hot for the teacher!

It's obvious from remarks on this forum that music teachers think they are entitled to expect children to practise. As I tried to say earlier, this is not obvious to most parents, who think they are buying a lesson, and don't necessarily connect that with practice. In the same way, parents buy exam revision guides for GCSEs but don't encourage the child to use them; they believe they've done all they should by providing the lesson or the guide, and it's up to the child to pick it up and run with it.

As cambiata says, it might be a good idea to say from the start that if the child doesn't practise, you reserve the right to cancel lessons. That would make it clear to parents from the outset that it isn't just a case of paying for lessons.

Just in a hurry here, but son's violin teacher says that if he can't practice, he's to call and cancel the lesson, and if he turns up and obviously hasn't practiced, he will be summarily dismissed, at the risk of lessons ceasing permanently. He really was sent home once, as teacher felt that his playing reflected insufficient practice...not no practice, but insufficient...

My information sheet given out at the start states that 'regular practice is essential, and without it there will be little or no progress'.

Fair enough, but to the average parent this is the same as saying that if the child does no homework they won't get a good mark in their exam - it states no gain without pain, but doesn't get over the message that unless there is gain the teacher won't continue lessons.

The reason being that I personally don't take that line.

If it gets to the point where nothing has been reasonably well completed in, say, a term, I would probably express concern at this point, and some kind of discussion would follow. I don't simply automatically stop lessons because a child is not practising, although it may be that after various exchanges this would be the outcome.

Good grief

If my teacher had told me off like that my mum would have waited until we got home... then told me off some more

She probably would have been mortified that the teacher felt the need to tell me off.

A good few times when I was little I "forgot" to do my theory homework (I didn't like it) for the piano teacher who then wrote in my notebook in red ink something like "Theory not brought!"

So I hid the notebook - but my mum found it one day and noticed all the red ink every couple of weeks. I remember because there was lot of shouting involved along the lines of "If you go piano you're to do what Mrs.xxxx tells you to do whether you like it or not!!" Again - it was annoyance that I'd given a teacher a reason be annoyed, and rightly so...

I think this parent's annoyance at you is severely misplaced

When I skim-read this post yesterday, my first reaction was that you're probably best off without this pupil, as you said you were fed up with her lack of preparation for lessons. But, having received an email from a fellow forumite asking for my opinion on this thread, and now having read through your post more thoroughly, I have to say that I think this could probably have been handled better. Sorry!

I don't think asking the child when she walked in at the very beginning of lessons (and, if I'm reading it correctly, this was a regular routine) whether she had practised - when you knew that she probably hadn't - was at all productive. In fact, I think it probably a rather negative thing to do as it would be more likely to cause conflict with the child feeling guilt, and the parent quite possibly feeling that their child was being criticised (and that you were expecting the worst of her) as soon as she walked in the door.

Of course, it would be obvious to any teacher worth their salt (and I'm not casting aspersions here - I'm sure you're a competent, caring and committed teacher) whether or not their pupil had done much practising within the first couple of minutes or so of the lesson. Wouldn't the more productive technique be one of speaking with the child and the parent at the end of the lesson to say that not much progress was able to have been made in that day's lesson due to inadequate practising, to have encouraged the pupil to prepare herself better for next week's lesson, and for the parent to be encouraged to engage in taking an active part of chivvying along the girl? After all, presumably the parent wants her sprog to be able to learn the instrument and is paying good money for this....

But I do sympathise with your frustration and, due to that, I still think that you're probably better off without this pupil.

It's probably a Teacher Thing; the circles in which I move have a sort of in -joke which goes along the lines of "..you can't half tell X is a teacher, can't you!" There is a sort of innate bossiness that goes with the territory in the same way as a mum will defend her sprog like a tiger when it is attacked, and then go home and tear it off a strip in private.

In my line of work I would love to be able to wag the finger at my clients when they don't try, and tell them off when they don't follow my advice but alas, this is not an option and any sign of censure from me would be instantly reported and I would be required to explain myself. And my clients don't pay and I don't have the luxury of dismissing them.

If you feel you are wasting your time with this child, you can say so and terminate the lessons. It sounds as though things have been leading up to it so it would not come as a shock. As a private teacher at least you can control whom you teach.

I mostly avoid asking questions about the amount of practise done; all it does is set the scene for conflict with a guilt-ridden child or irritated parent. We know which of our pupils practise enough, so we hardly need to ask them about it. I occasionally ask when a child has done something unexpectedly well, as it gives the opportunity for some point-making praise in the hope that the child makes the link between practise and success.

I never assume anything about the amount of practise done either, not verbally. Accusing a kid of not practising because they have not done well is a disaster when the lack of success is despite trying hard. Praising them for doing loads of work when a child has actually mastered something with ease merely makes me look like an idiot.

Children will practise enough, or they will not - we all know this. The mistake you made was trying to address the issue with the child you describe whilst you were tired and unable to handle the situation with your customary sensitivity.

Look on the bright side; maybe she will not return. You can hope.


Kids see you once a week. This should be a highlight in their week, something to approach with pleasurable anticipation. This is only going to happen if you feel the same about seeing the child, so if 'stragglers' are starting to annoy you then parting is in both your interests.

I have one at the mo. I have my own reasons for keeping him on and giving him what is effectively a supervised practise session, with the understanding and support of his parents. I make this as happy a 'lesson' as I do with all the others. I am not sure I would be able to do this with several, especially if there was a group of them on the same night. I am not sure whether homicidal or suicidal would by my primary emotion by the end of the session, but 'cidal' would definitely be in there.

So, for what it is worth, I feel that you should not teach people you do not want to teach because the relationship is going to be wrong, however hard you try. Why drive yourself into the ground? Life is too short.

I hope none of this comes across as being critical, either directly or by inference. That is not my intention.

From a parent: Much though I admire the patient and thoughtful parent contributors to these fora (Dora, Berkshire Mum, to name but two), I am a scratchy person and fully support occasionally losing your rag. In this modern pussy-footing world no one is allowed to criticise anyone and where does it get us? Good old-fashioned ranting occasionally works where being reasonable doesn't and doesn't and doesn't. PLease forgive yourself, pretend it was actually a bit of theatre if you can, and hope it makes a difference and she either starts practising or leaves because she isn't interested. Either way that's a result. And if it continues as before, you can still congratulate yourself - for having tried EVERYTHING, including losing your rag.

My daughters both had some teachers (all subjects not just music) who got cross and some who didn't. It made no difference - the ones they liked, they liked for who they were and being fiery on occasion was part of them. Occasionally they tell me of a single incident or comment that changed the way they thought about or approached something - and sometimes it was something nice that was said, but more often than not it wasn't. Either way, they're grateful - in retrospect of course. There must be far more times when a rant, quite rightly when it's my rant, goes in one ear and out the other, but the occasional 'score' maybe helps make up for all those.

(PS: Does anyone know why a have a 'Warn' line below my signature. Have I been blackballed?)

These reasons can be quite complex and linked to difficulties in other areas in a child's life. We teachers do not always find out about these, so I think it prudent to approach the lack of progress issue gently.

I suppose those of us who teach privately have a moral duty to make it clear to parents when we feel unable to give them value for money. I cannot remember the last time I 'sacked' a pupil. My approach is to explain the situation to parents, tell them I think they are wasting their money and leave the decision to them. Happily, my kids are a great bunch and this happens rarely.

The most recent is the boy I detailed briefly earlier. He is highly intelligent and comes from a supportive, loving and musically aware family. His parents asked me to continue in the hope that he may regain interest. Doing so is easy; he is a smashing little boy and we have a great time together. I have no idea what the future holds with him, and hold out little hope of a change, buy you never know. My conscience is clear; I am not taking money under false pretences; his parents know and understand that what they are paying for may bear no fruit and their money could easily be wasted.

We've all got one! but you only see your own. The little squares and the percentage tell you you cred is intact

It is refreshing to read this.

The fact is, though, that you are in a minority. Rag-losing is not a serious option for private teachers here in the UK. There are quicker ways to kill a business, but they would involve a lengthy stay as a guest of HM. Not an honoured guest, either.

Firstly, can I say that I am not criticising anyone - least of all Violinia. Only she knows what she has had to cope with with this student.

I just wanted to say that in all the years I have been teaching I can honestly say that I have NEVER shouted, ranted or been cross with a single student. Yes, there have been times when I have been frustrated, but I have always been aware that I cannot be party to everything that is going on in their lives. Sometimes the lessons have been supervised practice, but the result has been inspirational, and I am thankful for that. I'm not a saint, but I do appreciate that getting cross is more often than not counter-productive. I learnt that from my own lessons, and those of my daughters, both of whom gave up two instruments because of their teachers' attitudes. The more mistakes they made, the more the teacher shouted, and the more mistakes happened due to nerves. They would come out of their lessons crying - and so did I as an adult - once. I never went back. I always tell students how to practice and what in particular they need to work on between lessons, but if it hasn't been done, it hasn't. I just work with what I have presented to me. I have only ever given students the "sack" due to messing me around, not lack of practice.
If I need an attitude check, I get out my old favourite books - How to win friends and influence people and The one minute manager. The principles really work.

I'm with PD on this one, and I'm afraid I can also see where the mother is coming from, and might well have reacted similarly: in my line of work, it becomes even clearer that it would be counter-productive to start an encounter with an inquisition about how and when the person consulting me has fallen short.

I can fully appreciate the frustration of trying to do a job without the full co-operation of a pupil: it feels similar when patients want to lose weight/get rid of their acne/lower their blood pressure/feel less depressed, and come along to me to ask advice, then go away and don't take it - but at the end of the process I have to hand the responsibility back to the patient - what would really hack me off is if I were blamed for their lack of application and motivation to try out the things they need to do to get better. However, in this scenario, it may well be that other frustrations and irritations have caused the OP to jump in in a way she appears now to regret: that is only human, and in the same way, as PD points out, there may also be hidden factors in the pupil's life which mean that her music can't be the first item on her various commitments. We all have to juggle - what is sometimes forgotten by teachers (and come to it, healthcare professionals) is that just because a given subject is their area of expertise, and the foremost thing in their minds, they cannot assume that it will also be as important compared with the rest of life to their pupils, (or patients): and in fact, do we professionals have the right to think that it should?

No you dear thing you haven't been blackballed, and I love your post by the way. Everyone has their own warn sign which is only visible to you and no other poster. The idea is to let you know discreetly if you HAVE been blackballed, and if you are blue you are not in trouble. It should be something like a line of blue squares and 0% if you've been a good two shoes.

Sorry only just realised that someone else got their before me. Still liked the post though.

This is a useful thread. Violinia herself has said she could probably have handled the situation better. It's also interesting to see the different views teachers hold towards persistent non-practisers. To some it's very important that all their students practise, others are more relaxed and flexible. None of these are right or wrong, but an incident like this shows how important it is for us as teachers to have a clear strategy about how to deal with lack of practice. If we don't, tension can build up inside and then it's all to easy to let rip. And let's be honest, it's not just Violinia - most of us have been there!!

I'm probably in the minority, but I think a note of apology to the mum would be helpful in calming things. She too may have been having a beastly day. However, as others have said, if a student is causing a teacher to feel continually irritated and frustrated, for the teacher's sake it may well be time to lay down some specific conditions if the lessons are to continue.

And unfortunately there are some of those parents about!



I also have pupils who cannot practice due to amount of homework/outside activities, but I've been asked specifically to keep them on to maintain an interest in the piano.




Not sure that I'd send a note of apology, more perhaps an explanation of why practising is so important, or a request for them to clarify exactly what they are expecting from lessons.

That is a really good point.It took me years to come to my strategy. Once come to, my professional life improved immeasurably,

I've come late to this thread and found it very interesting.

Firstly, I don't think violinia should beat herself up too much about this. We're all human. And it isn't always wrong to show human emotions; if we didn't care we wouldn't show emotions. And it's hard to always greet with a smile a pupil whom we know has done no work since last week and who expects us to show the same enthusiasm as last week despite nothing having changed; they do sometimes think they're paying us to simply provide a fun half-hour despite their lack of interest.

But we do need to tread carefully. Sometimes we will be in good form before the lesson, and that week's lack of practice won't be a big deal to us. On other occasions we will be thinking of all the other things we coud be doing other than going through the same stuff as last week with an arrogant kid who doesn't see the need to bother in between lessons. But to the kid there may be little difference between this week and last. So we need to be consistent.

On the other hand, an otherwise apparently 'understanding' teacher (about lack of practice) who one day 'loses the rag' can really give a pupil a shake, and be the wake-up call that is required. At the end of the day, if this child wants to continue, and to continue to make progress, a little blip on teacher's smiling record won't halt that. The desire to play will over-ride. pride will be swallowed, and practice will be done. Kids are not that 'precious' - not really. They are humans too, who can understand our emotional involvement when it's thrust in front of them, and will respond according to how much they want to play music - or how much they respect their teacher - or both.

Another comment from a parent. I would be very grateful if my child's music teacher tells off my child for not practising. There is really no point wasting everyone's time: the teacher's time (effort, patience and endurance), the parent's time (and money) and the student's time. If a child will not practice but still "has interest" prehaps it is best to reduce the frequency of lessons, until eventually maturity and conflicts for other actvities demand that the child either give it up or take it up seriously.

However, I know that opinion from a parent who is serious about their kids' music education matters little in the mind of the parent described in this thread. (Strange enough, this may even push me into the pushy parent category , according to some of the other threads, since I insist on kids practicising rather than simply sending them to the teachers). I just thought it will be good to let Violinia know it is a good thing.

Apologising to mend relationships? In every career, people have to do this although it isn't their fault. For example doctors have to apologise to angry patients who miss their treatment because they were drunk & having a hangover. Your private music tution business however is afterall your won business, and you can run it according to your own philiosphy rather than some top down company policy. It is up to you really IMO.

The parent described in the thread may well have been taking issue with the manner of approach - from what was described in the thread, there really are two issues here - should anything at all have been said, and consensus seems to be that it is right to communicate about lack of practice - and how to do so. I'd understood the thread really to be about the second issue, and I do think it is arguable that the approach described might well not have been ideal - indeed the OP seemed to have been drawing that conclusion herself. There has been a lot of sympathy, and I'm sure that many teachers, and professionals in other disciplines, will recognise the "there but for the grace of whatever go I" feeling, but we can also help better if we look at the situation and ask how else might it have been handled. I'd have taken my child out of such a situation because confrontation of that sort immediately puts them under pressure, and leads to a no-win situation - even a reasonable excuse has been effectively predetermined to be unacceptable in such a scenario. Yes, a teacher should feel able to tell a child off, but a hasty approach opens them up to criticism. If the opening post is asking for support, then fine, we can all say we've done that or know what it feels like: if it is asking for advice, then I'd say this - better not to launch straight into an inquisition about practice, but to ask in a friendly way how the week has been, let the child play, and then pick up on a lack of practice when it becomes obvious, perhaps also asking the child how she might improve her chances of getting practice done, putting suggestions out, and breaking down the task list into practice items.Maybe most of you do that, but I know my teachers forgot.

You are a private teacher's dream.

Sadly, to most of us you remain merely a dream. 'Tis probably a good thing, or most teachers would spend most of their time telling their pupils off for not doing enough practise. Not many kids do enough practise, so far as I am concerned.

Hey ho.



Just had another thought. Children's practise is the responsibility of of their parents. How would you like it if your music teacher first told off your child for not practising enough, then rounded on you for not making your child practise?

I don't think this is necessarily so.
I agree that it's desirable that they should try to ensure that there is time for practice and also encourage/remind but isn't it good training to teach children to take some degree of responsibility for their own actions?

I disagree. Obviously as a teacher you need parents to make a window for the children to practise, but I make it clear to my pupils that they are responsible for their practising and when they roll up with weak excuses, we have thorough discussions about being able to use 5 minutes here and there such as when they're waiting for mum to get the tea etc. I have a particularly good line in "What?! You can't find just 5 minutes a day?!"

Equally I had a discussion with a young man this evening (age 7) about being responsible for putting his own music in his music bag rather than leaving it to mum who has a million other things to do (mum had put his music in big sister's bag - she comes in 2nd so the music wasn't discovered in time).

And since I have a son and daughter who both play instruments, I have had teachers frown at me, and implore more scales (usually) whereupon I'm afraid I turn to my teenagers and say over to you, because I get the usual teenager grunts if I "nag" them too often.

There are too many children in this world who are ready to say it's some-one else's job, or fault. It's the "Not me" syndrome and needs to be discouraged vigorously, but in the nicest possible way.

Sorry, this has turned into a rant.

Actually, I am all in favour of making kids take responsibility for their own actions.

My experience, is that this merely leads to inactivity.

My experience is that the kids who practise have parents who insist they practise.

Equally, my experience is that parents who do not insist their kids practise, react badly when I criticise their children for not doing so.

Just describing my experience, everyone understands?

Hi, I have nor read all of the replies, but the initial question is quite interesting and some of the answers. Obviously this child has been allowed to get away with little practice for some time------for what ever reason. Perhaps it was not dealt with in the best way.
Perhaps you could start a new way of trying to encourage children to practice. You could try giving them a notebook which is organised specially for music practice at home ( or ask them to buy this from you ---they are only cheap----and can get them from music shops). They actually do some nice childrens ones now. Anyway, this could be started from lesson ONE. The child takes responsibility for keeping this filled in and completed. The teacher writes in it each lesson what is to be practiced for next time and feedback from the current lesson. Parents who are interested enough, can also use this to see what has been done or not.

However, it does seem a long time to be having lessons with little progress. I cannot understand how this has gone on for so long, surely, mum could also see this???

best wishes

This seems to me exactly the kind of issue that might usefully be covered in that Raisin' Amazin' book discussed on another threaad. PianoDoodler's comments and Chickenfingers' comments are both spot on, but I get the impression that many, many parents think that it would be terribly bad parenting and tantamount to hothousing if they insisted that their children practice. We keep hearing (in English, anyway, what I hear in my Japanese life is quite different ) that talented children will all practice for hours without encouragement, and parents should barge out - it's not surprising that non-playing parents don't insist on regular practice.

My experience is that a kid who likes music will PLAY for hours, but PRACTICE for hours...well, perhaps rare before age 11.

It is great when teachers say clearly that progress is bad because practice is insufficient. Parents can say the same thing, but kids discount us, especially if we are not good musicians ourselves. When my kids were younger, it would have been great to have even something like a chart that shows a rough range of practice times a teacher really thinks is appropriate for each grade level or age range...doesn't have to be set in concrete, but I think kids (and parents) like to know just what is expected.

However, the teacher who manages to overcome his or her frustration and point out the sobering truth calmly and politely without anger is a real pro! That said, a bit of thunder and lightning doesn't matter (but a stream of invective is almost a physical shock, and hard to get over, regardless of how well deserved it is, and regardless of whether it's the teacher or the child or the parent who delivers it).