I had an enquiry for piano lessons for a 2 year old today. I haven't had any pupils for piano under 6 years old so far and have had very few enquiries for teaching children younger than this. My initial reaction was to suggest they looked for a musical activity group for tiny tots doing musical play or games - they are already doing this and the child is apparently showing signs of being very musical so they are thinking about piano lessons. I think that age 2 for piano is too young but I obviously know nothing about the child other than what his mum said to me in a short phone conversation.

I wondered if they might be better off looking for a Suzuki violin teacher instead although age 2 might well still be too young. I don't know if he would be able to hold a baby violin even or what the youngest age child any violin teachers might consider taking on. There are often stories of child prodigies who start learning at the age of 3 or 4 but my impression is that would not be the norm for most children.

My feeling is that they should let him enjoy his musical activity group and start an instrument in a few years time.

Any thoughts?


Louise

I totally agree. I think it would be ludicrous to attempt to teach a 2 year old to play the piano! Let him or her enjoy banging drums and shaking things for a bit longer...

Totally agree about the waiting! 2 years old does seem very young, even for methods such as Suzuki (but I'm not an expert!) He'd probably be better off finding some Kodaly like activities (again, not an expert, but I'd like to be eventually!). Who has decided he's "very musical"? My son nagged me for piano lessons at the age of 4 (I am a pianist), but I held off until he was six - better co-ordination, alround understanding etc. This definately was the right decision - he spent the time inbetween just playing around and experimenting on the piano.

You can find Suzuki piano teachers now, might be worth finding one and asking thier advice - any on the forum?

My 2 1/2 year old granddaughter also is very musically aware but I wouldn't think of trying to teach her how to play.
She loves to sing and is pretty good at holding a tune. When she 'plays' her favourite songs on the piano she plays the right rhythm. She can pick up a new tune very quickly when you sing to her. She's been able to recognise a tune she knows when played on an instrument since well before she was two without having to hear the words. She never has just banged on the piano and sometimes you can she that she is listening to the sounds she is making. I think that encouraging this is plenty for now.

Thanks for all your comments and glad that others agree. There are some local Colourstrings groups based on Kodaly principles which I think would be much more appropriate for his age than starting an instrument now.


Louise

I agree - there is no rush at all. My daughter was just like sbhoa's granddaughter at the age of 2 - she would sing songs in whatever key I played them in on the piano, and "played" along in time to the beat. She also knew over 60 songs at that age (not all thanks to me - she'd learn songs at nursery and come home and teach them to me!) and wanted to learn to play Twinkle Twinkle on the piano (aaw!) - we managed the first 14 notes. A year later, she is not remotely interested in learning an instrument yet and instead is gravitating more towards beginning to read and write. She says she would like to learn the recorder or the clarinet when she is older, but if I offer to teach her a tune on her xylophone, she doesn't want to know! I think musical activity groups and/ or singing and bashing drums at home is fine for this age group - in my daughter's case, I'm more interested that she has lots of different experiences and develops her social skills at the moment, rather than starting formal music lessons. Even for a bright, eager child, it seems very young.

Study an instrument at 2 ???

What goes through some parents heads I really don't know.

One of my general rules is "Don't teach anyone who can't go to the toilet by themselves yet"

Think you're absolutely spot on Louise.

Now I'm not a music teacher, unless you count general music in the primary school as one of the many things we had to teach or some extra curicular flute teaching I did on a voluntary basis (put them successfully through grade 1 and 2 flute) and loved it. I do think pre school music making is great for children but I wouldn't be too quick to say no to Suzuki violin lessons for a 2 year old. I once attended a worksop and I sat in on the pre scool group and they had a ball, singing, chanting rhythms to words holding a sweety on the body of the violin and after a short time they were allowed to eat it. I also got to hear Nicola Benedetti play the second movement of the Bruch Violin Concerto. She was 10 at the time. When the whole group came together the little ones stood at the frot and "played" too. what they actually played was no ones guess but they really enjoyed it.
There are two very sweet clips of a beautiful little two year old playing suzuki violin on utube. The first clip is of the child and her teacher practicing rhythm and bow hold with a box vioiln and a stick. The next one is a few months later and it was a recital and the little girl was there at the very front in her party dress with her teacher kneeling beside her. The little one successfully played parts of the phrases usuing the same rhythm all the time. She would play like two bars then out for two etc. while the rest of the children played the full version. I'll try and see if I can post a link to it. And yes, you can get really tiny violins for tiny children but I'm sorry I don't know anything about suzuki piano. I just thought this might be of interest.

[quote name='fatar760' date='May 20 2009, 08:39 PM' post='828358']
Study an instrument at 2 ???



One of my general rules is "Don't teach anyone who can't go to the toilet by themselves yet"

He, he. Never thought of that one!

Having read Gofeen's post, I have just remembered that my daughter did "play" (I hesitate to use the word) a violin when she used to go to a creche. She would have been between two and two and a half. I'm not quite sure what she did as she never mentioned it but one day when I went to pick her up there was a photo of her bowing a tiny violin pinned on the wall in the entrance hall so I asked. The creche used to invite various professionals to come and do activities with the children and one of them was a violinist. She came in a couple of times a week for a month or two and my daughter had apparently been the only one who had really grasped what she was supposed to be doing.

My daughter may have impressed the adults at the creche (and the photo was really cute) but it obviously didn't interest her particularly (or she would have talked about it at home) despite the fact that in other respects she was clearly musical - she could sing almost from before she could talk and as soon as she learnt how to crawl made a bee-line for the piano.

Excellent idea!

What on earth is the parent thinking??? A 2 year old's hands won't be big enough for a piano keyboard, plus they won't have enough strength in their fingers to depress the keys properly!!! And I'm not an expert but I can't imagine that it would help their soft developing bones to be using their fingers like that anyway. In fact I would have thought that it would lead to all kinds of problems hand/finger position wise in any case....... (Yes I know they have a more naturally rounded hand position when they are younger but the strength needed to depress the keys would surely cause them to use their hands in awkward ways just with the effort.) My 2 year old is happy plonking away with the palms of his hands up and down the keys and also listening to the sounds of the notes when played individually but I certainly wouldn't jump up and down and say "oh he's musical - I must start teaching him!!!" Although the other day I caught him jigging up and down while singing and plonking (his version of singing - nothing recognisable as yet...... ) (although his first songs will not be nursery rhymes - they'll be Bob the Builder and Fireman Sam...... )

I think it's for violin...

*Not a teacher*

I don't see what the difference is between exploring the sounds drums/tambourines/other percussion instruments/the voice make and exploring the piano. Surely a 2 year old wouldn't have to 'study' the piano, you could just spend the lesson doing teacher-guided plonking and general exploring, then gradually introduce playing actual tunes and rhythms.

Perhaps a 'bashing drums with other toddlers' group would be, overall, more benficial, but it sounds as though piano lessons would be an extra, not an alternative.

Piano lessons for a two year old? Priceless. I haven't giggled so much for ages.

I checked out the local children's music playgroup for my colleagues who are parents. They don't even take in any child below the age of 4 years.

If my memory still works, I started my own musical playgroup at the age of 5. Loved my little portable Yamaha HandySound and tambourine . I still remember a messy public performance where I almost fell asleep waiting for our turn. I guess a two-year-old would be screaming and running around during lessons, and wouldn't even be able to speak clearly?

We used to live in New York and there were (of course) lots of groups for tiny tots.

My son went to a music one from the age of 2 and it was super. There was running around for the 'music and movement' part but the parents/carers stayed with the children and sat with them when it was 'circle' time (lots of percussion, singing echoes, expressing yourself with new instruments etc.etc. - all very New York but a lot of fun and musical too).

But this bears no ressemblance to piano lessons.

Maybe there are special methods for 2 year-olds but I wouldn't go anywhere near it.

The first child I ever taught was 3 years old. I was still a student at the time and someone had approached my college asking for a young teacher for their daughter. My own piano teacher asked me if I'd like to do it, it, as she knew I wanted to start teaching and she said that she would support me.
The little girl was brought to my home every week by her nanny and was rather precocious, but we did have a lot of fun and it was very good experience for me. My teacher was very helpful and even invited us both to her home so that she could observe what we were doing in lessons.
Although she did seem very young to be having lessons, I felt that it was quite successful.
I should also add that my husband started playing the cornet when he was 3!!

The original post said piano lessons.....

I remember taking the girls to a baby and toddler music making group when they were tiny (youngest was only months old). The eldest seemed to enjoy it, lots of clapping and singing, ideal for a 2 year old. I wonder how they can tell a child of this age is musical.

Ive been on a Suzuki piano teachers course but im not a qualified Suzuki teacher. I have heard of kids starting suzuki piano at around that age, of course it would all be pretty light. The age will of course be taken into account. Absolutely no pushiness involved. Suzuki isnt about creating prodigies, Dr Suzuki's goal was more to do with enriching peopes lives and making them more understanding and sensitive. A very experienced suzuki teacher could be able to take on such a young child with a sensitive and appropriate approach and taking everything into account, including those absolutely tiny little fingers and developing bones, although the child wouldnt actually be put at the piano for his/her own lesson for quite a while anyway. The British suzuki institute have a list of registered Suzuki teachers on the parents section of the website, if you mention that to them they could find someone really experienced in their area. Even if the parent choses to ring up a local suzuki teacher, most wont start having him over for his/her own 'lessons' straight away, he/she will just have fun in the group classes, sitting in on other kids lessons/or mum or dads lessons and listening to the suzuki cds daily before including 'short' individual lessons with teacher, so the child would be a bit older before they sit at the piano anyway. When it come to observing lessons, its being there that counts, they could gain so much. The child doesnt necesarily have to literly sit attentively and watch because by just being there they are absorbing so much.

http://www.britishsuzuki.org.uk
Just incase any 'qualified' suzuki teachers come across this post, I hope ive explained it right!

Thanks for this - I know very little about Suzuki other than that I've heard about it being used with very young children with violin rather than other instruments.


Louise

An ex-student of mine started Suzuki piano a little older than this - at four - and she is now in her first year as a Cambridge music undergraduate .

Pre-instrumental lessons are a great way to introduce a child to concepts like pitch, rhythm and pulse in a fun way which will (hopefully!) stay with them forever. I teach pre-instrumental music to children from 3 years old. Over a couple of years they develop a great internal sense of music; they learn to pitch well and to connect with rhythm and pulse through singing games and moving to music (keeping the pulse, expressing rhythms etc).

In that way I think it is quite different to instrumental tuition and the group aspect of it is important. Children can really learn from each other.

It is really beneficial and has amazing results.

But you do sometimes get over-zealous parents who want their child to start at 2 or so. I have even once had a parent lie about their child's age to get them into a 5-7 group. Of course the child was so proud of being 3 that I was told all about it on the first day!

Hope this makes sense! Am a bit tired.