I'm hoping I can ellicit an honest response to these questions:

1) Do you teach pupils who are not exam orientated (in particular, adult learners) differently to your exam pupils and if so in what ways? Particularly, do you at all see these as "easier"/ less pressured lessons so focus less on the progress the pupil is making?

2) How much direction do you give your adult learners? Do you allow them to find their own way when working on new pieces or give them very specific guidance on certain aspects of technique. For example if the instrument was the piano and it involved pedalling - would you tell your pupil where to put pedal in or would you let them suss it out for themselves? What about aspects such as correct fingering/ alternative fingerings? Would you mark the music at the beginning where potential difficulties could arise or wait and see how the pupil got on?

3) If a pupil turned up at your lesson having tackled a new piece since last lesson but having made little progress (not because of doing no practice though) or it was obvious that they were stuggling how would you approach the lesson with them? And how much guidance would you give them on how to practice over the following week?

4) How specific are you in your setting of "homework" to your adult pupils. For example do you just set a piece to be worked on? Or do you tell them that you are looking for something specific e.g. dynamics, phrasing, timing, fingering etc? Do you teach your pupils how to practice effectively or just expect them get on with it?

Edit: sorry this was badly phrased and should have been separated to: a) How specific are you in your setting of "homework" to your adult pupils. For example do you just set a piece to be worked on? Or do you tell them that you are looking for something specific e.g. dynamics, phrasing, timing, fingering etc?

b) Do you teach your pupils how to practice effectively or just expect them to practice and hope it's effective?

5) If you set a piece to be worked on at one lesson would you always have it played at the next lesson or is it reasonable to ask the pupil to play one of the other pieces they'd been working on although you'd told them to focus on another piece at the previous lesson?

6) Does there come a point where a pupil will have got as far as they can go? If you thought this would you tell the pupil?

7) Is it more effective to teach a pupil from your home/teaching studio or from their home?? Why?

These questions are just a few I've been pondering and have arisen partly from my own experiences, for example I've NEVER been taught HOW to practise and am not sure I always do it effectively, and those of some of my accquaintances and some from posts I've read on here.

I'd really appreciate your honesty in answering them and assure you there is no hidden agenda here

Hi Dawn,

Wow, lots of questions - I'll try to answer them all..

1. Yes, I do teach some non exam-orientated pupils - 2 adults. I don't really do anything differently with them - I use the same materials and do the same activities - sight-reading, scales etc. I must admit I have neglected aural work with these two, but partly because they are so resistant to doing it!

2. I give whatever direction is needed - usually a LOT! I insist on correct fingerings and would mark these in, also pedalling if needed. I wouldn't anticipate problem areas, but would work on whatever difficulties arose. I find that my adult students need every bit as much help as the kids, if not more.

3. Hard to answer this specifically, but I would try to identify the areas that were giving difficulties and then suggest ways of breaking down the problem and techniques for practice. Often comes down to dodgy fingering and hand positioning. I might ask them which bit of the piece was causing difficulties and ask them what they think the problem is. There are often gaps where a change of position is required, for instance - I encourage them to play a small fragment, landing on the note or notes after the gap and then stopping, so that they gain confidence in overcoming a particular tricky spot.

4. Yes, specific instructions eg work on this piece hands separately, concentrating on fingering and phrasing. I think it is essential to teach pupils how to practice and be very specific in setting tasks. Hopefully after a while pupils learn a series of strategies that they can then apply to future difficulties.

5. Essential to hear things that you have set for practice on the previous week, otherwise what is the point of setting homework? You need to check that work has been done correctly and effectively, and then build on this by setting new tasks. I do advise pupils to play other pieces as well and do some independent exploration - good for sight-reading, and broadening repertoire.

6. I haven't yet reached that point with any of my pupils. Some have plateaued for a while, usually because they have stopped practising. I would certainly discuss the lack of progress with the pupil and try to discover the reason for not practising - maybe a change of material is required. Even students who I have despaired of have surprised me by forging ahead after getting an appealing new book.

7. I prefer to teach in my home/studio, because I have access to all my materials, better piano, recording facilities etc etc. However I do find it useful to have occasional lessons at the student's home - review of practice facilities, getting to know them a little better, different atmosphere in their home environment.

I'll also try my best, although not a pianist ...

1. Yes, and I have to say: I MAINLY teach adults who are not taking exams, so I am quite used to it and never found it a problem, far from it (I am not to keen on exams for several reasons, support the people who want to take them fully though). I really don't differentiate that much in the type of work that needs done. It is the same instrument they are being taught, so in a way the same rules apply. And I NEVER enter students for an exam before the program is "set". Means, I work in a way that I teach everything that needs to be taught, and if a student wants to take exams, I have a thought about what already works well and what grade we could enter them. So that's a pretty opposite approach from: "You have your exams next spring, let's see what songs we pick and how we squeeze the supporting subjects in." There are students however who don't want to sightread and blatantly refuse theory work (they can't refuse aural though ) - they simply won't enter an exam then. The voice still gets treated the same way.

2. Pretty much the same like any younger student or exam-taker - really no difference. The guidance is the same. I can only offer the tools though - if the student learns to use them is still a big part of their own decision and commitment. I offer the utmost help possible - if the student is lazy or doesn't practise for other reasons, it is really not my problem. Adult learners are often (not always though!) "recreational" people who simply want to relax. It's their decision, but I make them aware of what this means and that they probably won't really progress that quickly, if at all. If they still want to carry on, that's fine with me, as long as truth is spoken. If a bit of singing in a weekly lesson suffices, no problem as long as they don't get frustrated (every now and again you get people who don't put the work in but blame you for not progressing - then it's simply time to say "sayonara".)

3. Difficult, since there's no general approach. All my students get practice-sheets, and all my students get taught HOW to practise in their first lessons (I even give out a little leaflet about practice). Specific problems need to be tackled in an individual way though, so it is hard to give a "one-fits-all"-advice ...

4. As mentioned before, they get practice-sheets and also have the chance to record their lessons. Specific problems are addressed straightaway, and I usually give hints on how to practise at home and what to avoid without supervision. As should be clear by now and to answer part b) of this question: Yes, I tell them - if they pick it up though is up to them, I am not a nanny

5. I don't do it this way - my students have their practice sheets, so you might call it homework. However, I don't tick off boxes during the next lesson, I usually hear if they practised or not anyway without going through the same exercises over and over again. You can hear it in the song they are working on (I usually only work on one piece at a time).

6. That's difficult to answer. I believe there are students who are gifted and students who are not. I also believe there are students who are lazy and there are students who are committed. A lazy gifted one can stagnate and even reach the end of their journey very quickly, while a less gifted but committed person can really get far. I don't believe in miracles though. I DO believe however that a student who WANTS to take lessons still has more to learn. If I didn't believe this, I wouldn't get my own voice supervised regularly either. On each level, no matter if complete beginner or pro, there are always more things to learn.
So, to answer the question: I would say "No".

7. I only teach from my own home and believe it is effective I also do workshops etc. but they are usually for groups, so that's a different situation.

Thankyou for the replies so far. T

This is not specific to piano I just used that as it's the instrument I've picked up as an adult, I'm a returner to clarinet lessons too. The questions apply equally to all instruments I think.

There are of course reasons for me asking these questions, both mere curiosity and an some an attempt to understand my teaching/learning experiences better. Some have more bearing on my current learning experiences and difficulties.

Over time I've had 3 different instrumental tutors (for different instruments) and they have all done things differently, some methods suiting me better than others.

I may well explain some of my reasons/experiences further as the thread progresses, some will remain private.

If you have no objection I may PM some contributors to discuss further off open forum.

Thanks
Dawn

I'm hoping I can ellicit an honest response to these questions:

1) Do you teach pupils who are not exam orientated (in particular, adult learners) differently to your exam pupils and if so in what ways? Particularly, do you at all see these as "easier"/ less pressured lessons so focus less on the progress the pupil is making?

Yes I have one lady who is not taking performance exams but is taking theory, I approach these lessons differently as she explores more repetoire and is also looking at a lot of jazz pieces, which is an interest for her. All my pupils are taught differently though as not one pupil is the same as another. As for progress, no lessons are as much focused on progress whether the pupil is taking exams or not.

2) How much direction do you give your adult learners? Do you allow them to find their own way when working on new pieces or give them very specific guidance on certain aspects of technique. For example if the instrument was the piano and it involved pedalling - would you tell your pupil where to put pedal in or would you let them suss it out for themselves? What about aspects such as correct fingering/ alternative fingerings? Would you mark the music at the beginning where potential difficulties could arise or wait and see how the pupil got on?

I tend to work on pieces very practically together, unless the pupil doesn't work well with this type of teaching, technique foundations are very much something that must be taught but as the pupil advances I like to see their take on things - technique must be correct to start. Music though is very individual to the person I encourage people to discover "their own sound"

3) If a pupil turned up at your lesson having tackled a new piece since last lesson but having made little progress (not because of doing no practice though) or it was obvious that they were stuggling how would you approach the lesson with them? And how much guidance would you give them on how to practice over the following week?

I tend to give my pupils lots of guidance and work through things practically, very much hands on.

4) How specific are you in your setting of "homework" to your adult pupils. For example do you just set a piece to be worked on? Or do you tell them that you are looking for something specific e.g. dynamics, phrasing, timing, fingering etc? Do you teach your pupils how to practice effectively or just expect them get on with it?

Very specific as to where I think the music should go next to move up to that next step, I advice on practise

Edit: sorry this was badly phrased and should have been separated to: a) How specific are you in your setting of "homework" to your adult pupils. For example do you just set a piece to be worked on? Or do you tell them that you are looking for something specific e.g. dynamics, phrasing, timing, fingering etc?

b) Do you teach your pupils how to practice effectively or just expect them to practice and hope it's effective?

I do teach my pupils how to practise, yes, as I find pupils may not think to pick out the difficult bits etc.

5) If you set a piece to be worked on at one lesson would you always have it played at the next lesson or is it reasonable to ask the pupil to play one of the other pieces they'd been working on although you'd told them to focus on another piece at the previous lesson?

We normally go through more than one piece, always a recap on the lesson before moving on

6) Does there come a point where a pupil will have got as far as they can go? If you thought this would you tell the pupil?

Not sure as I have not come accross this as yet! Been teaching for nearly 4 years.

7) Is it more effective to teach a pupil from your home/teaching studio or from their home?? Why?

I only teach from the pupils home, have not taught from my home for a number of reasons

These questions are just a few I've been pondering and have arisen partly from my own experiences, for example I've NEVER been taught HOW to practise and am not sure I always do it effectively, and those of some of my accquaintances and some from posts I've read on here.

I'd really appreciate your honesty in answering them and assure you there is no hidden agenda here

I hope this has helped

Nicia



I have no objections!

Nicia

Unfortunately I find that even though I give pupils detailed instructions on how to practise a piece, they quite often don't do what I asked, with the result that the piece is no better the following week or comes back with lots of stupid and careless errors which would have been avoided if they'd done what I suggested......

Yes I teach a lot of pupils who don't want to do exams (or at least, I have done over the years - I only have a few pupils now....). I think I teach them in a similar way although there is less pressure to learn scales in the same way, and I don't always stick with a piece until it's perfect. I'll maybe ask more frequently for a piece to be memorised, but I'll also set pieces from old exam syllabi (and tell the pupil too) so that they've got an idea of what level they're at.

I'm too tired to think any more!! Sorry....!

Hi Dawn



Hope the above helps DawnF nice to hear from you again.

1 Yes, the focus is different, but the lessons are no less pressured or easier. Adults are impatient to make progress and need lots of tlc to keep them motivated when they don't make the progress they feel they should

2This depends. The problem here is adults do not like being told. Children are used to being taught and taking years to learn a subject. Adults have many preconceptions which can seriously hinder their learning. There are lots of different approaches to teaching adults, but difficulties can arise if they start to distrust the teacher or reject advice. I'd give advice on technique and pedalling, but let them work out the finer details. As for marking a piece beforehand, that would depend on what I am intending to accentuate as a learning goal.

3 I set goals, and they often bring back something else. I encourage them if they have decided to tackle a different piece, provided it is within their reach. Sometimes I would focus on one aspect you have listed, maybe a couple, so as not to discourage them

4 I set goals, and they often bring back something else. I encourage them if they have decided to tackle a different piece, provided it is within their reach. Sometimes I would focus on one aspect you have listed, maybe a couple, so as not to discourage them

5 Yes, but this is usually because their aim is unrealistic and they won't adjust goal or take advice. Not usually because they can't learn, more they don't want to from me.

6 I teach from home to keep my costs down. They get the chance to play on a different instrument, and it is my space, and means it is easier to stay in control. It is personal safety thing too. I am reasonable judge of people, but there isn't time to be as thorough as I would like.

a) Usually fairly specific, although there'll usually be more than one focus.

b) I always teach people practising skills : it's so, so, important in my opinion, and it does give much better results.

I'd always thought of this being the other way round. Surely in the earlier stages the teacher needs to be a lot more directive because the pupil simply doesn't have either the technique or the experience necessary while the more advanced learner is more likely to have their own ideas on interpretation. (Or perhaps I have misunderstood what you have meant).

This can sometimes be the case but I'm perfectly happy for the teacher to 'be' the teacher.
I've said on other threads in the past that I do like my teacher to tell me what do do a lot of the time.
I do sometimes have adults who go away and do their own thing rather than what I've suggested and I try to work with this while at the same time repeating the same advice until hopefully it becomes clear that it might help to use it....