does anybody know that piece? it sounds like a duet because of the rapid e flats. is it a solo or a duet? and does anybody know how to play it?

No, I believe it is a solo which Liszt wrote as a study in octaves. I haven't seen the music, but from hearing it I think it's extremely challenging! It could probably be transcribed for two pianos to make a much easier duet - don't know if this has been done, though.

I've tried for about 6 months and gave it up. It's definetly beyond diploma standard and you need really large hands to play it!

If it was a duet piece, it would be very easy.
I don't think it is a piece for practising octaves...
It doesn't require really large hands, but you have to move very fast.

There's a book by Elinor Brent-Dyer about a music school in which a 14-year old girl plays La Campanella for a music school audition and all the music teachers fall at her feet. So it must be quite tricky

It's an etude. Isnt it?

It is... I have only done the 1st page... Been wanting to continue but too difficult... Maybe a few months later...

I've had a couple of attempts, none of have been successul, WAY beyond my standard.

QUOTE (Mr. Curious @ Nov 15 2004, 12:35 AM)

It's an etude. Isnt it?

Yes.

When talking about a piece such as "La Campanella" you can throw Grades out of the window. Franz Liszt was a Genius and possibly the greatest ever Virtuoso Pianist in the History of the Instrument. Therefore, before attempting a piece like "La Campanella" ask yourself this question. Do I consider myself to fall into the same bracket as Franz Liszt? i.e. am I a virtuoso pianist with a phenomenal technique and memory and be able to span a tenth and beyond with ease? Personally, my answer would be no and I have been playing the piano for 25 years and can reach a 10th easily. I attempted parts of Liszt's "Apres une Lecture du Dante" at one point in my foolish youth and the only thing I acheved was a feeling of total inadequacy, a mild nervous breakdown and sprained right hand after constantly stretching 12ths. Sure, it sounded impressive when I played excerpts of the piece to family and friends wheened on Pop Music, but I knew deep down, that what I was playing was only a mediocre attempt at the performance of the music.
I could probably learn the notes of "La Campanella" with a few hours a day of study but would I be able to play it with the flair and artistry that the piece needs? I doubt it as I am no virtuoso! It would sound adequate to the untrained ear I suppose.
Personally, I dont enjoy performing what I call "Tightrope" pieces in the sense that you always feel nervously balanced on the keys and about to fall at any moment during the performance. It takes a very brave, confident person and virtuoso player to perform a piece like this in public....someone say like Franz Liszt in fact!
If anyone here can play "La Campanella" with flair and artistry I have just one question..... Can I have your autograph please?

I can see what you're saying and I agree that there is a huge difference between being able to play the notes of a piece and being able to play that piece well. However I think that you're being a bit harsh saying that no one should bother to attempt it if they don't think that they're as good as Liszt. For a start we don't want the only pianists in the world to be the arrogant ones....

Okay, you won't be able to play the piece brilliantly until you're well in excess of FRSM standard but based on that argument no one should ever even attempt grade 1 pieces until they're about grade 6 standard because they won't fully do them justice...

Yes there's a big difference between playing the notes and playing well; and yes it is annoying when people insist that they're really good because they can play a certain piece just because they've learnt the notes and the performance has little artistic merit; but I don't think that we should preclude practically everyone in the world from playing this piece if they want to try: true they may not play it as well as Liszt but that doesn't mean that advanced pianists can't perform a reasonably good rendition of it. I do agree that it's way off the grade scale though, I think that anyone still not yet at grade 8 standard would find the technical aspects of the piece too demanding.

P.S. I don't mean to be imposing but the red text is a little harsh on the eyes and seems a little aggressive: is it possible for you to write in black?

AnotherPianist, I didn't mean to imply that no-one should attempt the piece, merely draw attention to the particular difficulties of "La Campanella" and what to expect in trying to learn it. In order to prepare for such a demanding piece you need to be mentally prepared for it as well as doing all the practicing.
Personally though, I wouldn't particularly enjoy listening to a scrappy second rate performance of "La Campanella" would you? I'm just being a realist on the subject. If you need to ask if "La Campanella" is a difficult piece of music then IMHO you are not ready to perform a piece like this.
Notice the difference between playing and performing. We can all play music, but can we really perform it as a musical artist? I dont know about you, but that is always my goal with each new piece of music. Sure, if one of my Grade 8 pupils was trying it out I would do everything to encourage them to try it, but I would also help them psychologically through the harder passages by reminding them that Franz Liszt was one in a million. If they find it too demanding and dont achieve this level, then rather than them feeling inadequate, which they will I'm sure,it is nothing to be ashamed of. I am also not a person to give false praise out either.
To sum up, I would never hold back anyone wanting to attempt a particular piece of music, but I would always prefer to hear an easier piece of music played well and with artistry rather than a scrappy and messy attempt at a more difficult piece of music.
I hope I've made myself a bit clearer.

Gae

Yes, I think we're actually coming from the same point of view. I would definitely much rather hear a good rendition of an easier piece than a bad rendition of a harder piece. I think it was just the wording of your last post that made me think that you were implying that no one should ever play it.

I think that what you say about needing to ask if it's difficult is about the best advice that anyone asking this question could be given. I do have a philosophy that anyone saying any piece is too easy is simply demonstrating their inabilities, rather than abilities, in playing the piano (or at least in understanding their playing).

Only when I was at grade 8 I can think that I can play grade 4-5 pieces well.

AnotherPianist,
I seem to remember reading or hearing a female student say that she thought that J.S. Bach's Preludes and Fugues were easy to play as if music was some kind of Sport.
Thanfully, I never heard her playing these easy pieces but I'm sure if she had said to me one day "I played Bach today" I might have just asked "Who Won?"
I am pretty sure that I could spend the rest of my life playing these pieces and still never come to truly appreciate it or do it the justice it deserves. Humbled in the presence of Genius I suppose.

Gae

i disagree with you at some extent Gae

QUOTE

i disagree with you at some extent Gae

Care to elaborate?

Gae

QUOTE (Gae @ Nov 16 2004, 12:25 PM)

When talking about a piece such as "La Campanella" you can throw Grades out of the window. Franz Liszt was a Genius and possibly the greatest ever Virtuoso Pianist in the History of the Instrument. Therefore, before attempting a piece like "La Campanella" ask yourself this question. Do I consider myself to fall into the same bracket as Franz Liszt? i.e. am I a virtuoso pianist with a phenomenal technique and memory and be able to span a tenth and beyond with ease? Personally, my answer would be no and I have been playing the piano for 25 years and can reach a 10th easily. I attempted parts of Liszt's "Apres une Lecture du Dante" at one point in my foolish youth and the only thing I acheved was a feeling of total inadequacy, a mild nervous breakdown and sprained right hand after constantly stretching 12ths. Sure, it sounded impressive when I played excerpts of the piece to family and friends wheened on Pop Music, but I knew deep down, that what I was playing was only a mediocre attempt at the performance of the music. I could probably learn the notes of "La Campanella" with a few hours a day of study but would I be able to play it with the flair and artistry that the piece needs? I doubt it as I am no virtuoso! It would sound adequate to the untrained ear I suppose. Personally, I dont enjoy performing what I call "Tightrope" pieces in the sense that you always feel nervously balanced on the keys and about to fall at any moment during the performance. It takes a very brave, confident person and virtuoso player to perform a piece like this in public....someone say like Franz Liszt in fact! If anyone here can play "La Campanella" with flair and artistry I have just one question..... Can I have your autograph please?

i dont think that you have to fall in the same category as Franz Liszt just to attempt this piece. Also, suppose there is a very skilled pianist out there but has small hands and cant span a 10th+. they were born with small hands but that shouldnt stop them from attempting this piece.

QUOTE

i dont think that you have to fall in the same category as Franz Liszt just to attempt this piece. Also, suppose there is a very skilled pianist out there but has small hands and cant span a 10th+. they were born with small hands but that shouldnt stop them from attempting this piece.

It depends what your intentions are I suppose. If you just want to try something out to challenge yourself or to try something different at a much higher level then thats fine I suppose. If on the other hand, you are looking for a piece to perform in a musical and artistic way, its better to stick to something of your own ability and make a good job of it...unless you are a Virtuoso like Franz Liszt. Thats all I'm saying.
I tried to play many difficult pieces in my youth that I never got near to mastering and the few recordings I made that survive, sound pretty terrible to me now. Looking back, maybe I would have been better playing and mastering lots easier pieces and performing more different styles of music at my own level rather than attempting the harder pieces. I dont really know. Its down to individual choice. I suppose we all like to think we are better players than we actually are in our youth and try to push ourselves to the limit. With youth comes recklessness and sometimes naivety, with age comes thoughfulness and sometimes wisdom. At my age, I have become very fussy of what I listen to and play, and as a Piano teacher, critical of all musical performances I hear, including my own. Personally, I would rather hear a simple piece played beautifully and with feelingl than a difficult piece struggling along. In no way though am I suggesting to anyone what pieces they should play however, only asking them to consider if it is suitable for them, as a performer.
We should always try and attain beauty and musicality in everything we play.
Gae

LOL. Gae, you are right because i just tried it out a few hours ago and cant make it past the 5th measure. so, yea, i was wrong. ill stick to somethin my level, that is if i know my own level

Dont worry....join the rest of us mortals!

Gae

Hi Gae,

I love your story about the lady playing the Bach! I'm interested to know, do you believe that anyone alive today is as good as Liszt? Are there any living pianists (or indeed any pianists since Liszt) that you consider give a musical and artistic rendition? Or do you feel that no one since Liszt has done the piece justice?

There are many performers around today, I'm sure, as good as/better than Liszt was, but how many of them also compose music like Liszt did? That is the difference for me. Like true artists, Liszt was the perfect unity between Composer and performer. He was not just performing and interpreting someone else's music (although he played other music too and his own transcriptions of other music) but presenting your "Soul" for all to world to share and often criticise.
Over the years I have admired Alfred Brendel's and Jorge Bolet's interpretation of Liszt's Piano music. They are both extremely gifted Pianists and artists.
Liszt was often criticised in his day for having too many notes in his music! I'd love to see the imaginary board meeting between Liszt and his critics. While scanning over his manuscript the discussion would follow ...Liszt: "Now which particular notes do you think I should leave out? That one there, yes we dont really need that one in that particular phrase now do we? Out it goes, nasty note! It wont affect my artistic vision in any way I dont think"

We can never really be sure how great a Pianist was if we have never heard them can we? We can only go by what we read, hear or for me by seeing their compositions. If they played the compositions that they left us with, with skill and artistry and performed them in public too, then they were truly Giants...which of course they were. Their music has stood the test of time and as pure piano music, has reached a zenith of human achievement.

Gae

I had another look at it today, and I can't play it, I probably never will as my hands can barely span an octave, let alone a tenth!

QUOTE (isabelsmells @ Nov 19 2004, 04:34 PM)

I had another look at it today, and I can't play it, I probably never will as my hands can barely span an octave, let alone a tenth!

an octave? a tenth? in the piece i thought i saw a 14TH!!!

QUOTE

an octave? a tenth? in the piece i thought i saw a 14TH!!!

OUCH!



Gae

There is a 15THin measures 7, 11 and 15!!!

-Lizzi

Give it a break.

You voilinists should listen the material from which it was lifted. I begin to wonder if Paganini alone could play it.

For piano it's probably about the same as some of Liszt's Etudes d'execution Transendante.
I really don't think arguments about grade and should one attempt it if and but, and is it worth playing if you can't play it well, are useful.

If youre motivated, give it a go. Learn what you do when you see a 15th on the page. (I'm currently looking at an Earl Wild piece that frequently has chords of 12 notes... absurd to think you try to play them at the same instant. Listen to a good recording and find out what the pianist does.

You'll get nowhere if you're scared of the thing...and don't worry about how polished you get unless you intend to play it before the RFH audience or national telly. .. No matter what, if you get part way through it you'll find your playing will improve in many other ways - that's the spinoff with studies.

Good luck.

QUOTE (ConcertPianist @ Nov 14 2004, 08:14 AM)

does anybody know that piece? it sounds like a duet because of the rapid e flats.  is it a solo or a duet? and does anybody know how to play it?

The genius of it is, the jumps are actually not that difficult. It takes about half an hour to get them.

The difficulty is not, surprisingly, the two octaves jumps. The variations, eg. the repeated note one, is quite difficult. The left hand has quite large intervals.

The trick is to practice it fast, then slow it down.

Don't be scared. Liszt was a virtuoso. He wrote it so that it is quite sensible to play.

you can listen to it Here

Yundi Li's recording is quite good. Here it is (the preview on Deutche Grammaphone's website)

The website where it came from is here

These jumps crop up all over the place. I doubt they're marked to be arpeggiated because at this level it's understood you'd find some way to deal with it.

Just found one in a Porgy & Bess arrangement (among many other little nasties like that nasty 4-5 tr in the RH). Summertime, would you believe.

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Dec 18 2004, 05:29 PM)

You voilinists should listen the material from which it was lifted. I begin to wonder if Paganini alone could play it.

Well, Paganini was another Genius, would you not say? So probably, like Liszt, he could make quite a good effort

Gae, i agree that Bolet did some wonderful Liszt recordings. Not so convinced by Brendel.

As to the Bach 48, I heard Andras Schiff play them a few years ago and that was the ultimate as far as I am concerned (though for the Goldberg I vote Gould, 2nd version)

Forgot - I played Liszt's Eglogue from the Annee de Pelerinage en Suisse as one of my G8 pieces, way back when, and I don't have huge hands, so I had to break up some of the chords. (OK it was nothing like when Bolet plays it!!!!)

I think in a lot of Liszt, there are "un-manageable" chords, you just have to figure out what makes sense musically, usually the result is not sooooo bad.

Well - except perhaps for la Campanella :-)

QUOTE (lafrog @ Dec 18 2004, 10:02 PM)

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Dec 18 2004, 05:29 PM) You voilinists should listen the material from which it was lifted.  I begin to wonder if Paganini alone could play it.   Well, Paganini was another Genius, would you not say? So probably, like Liszt, he could make quite a good effort

Yes...I had heard his was quite good on the violin.

Paganini was the best at the violin. And I find Yundi Li's recording the best. His octaves rule.

It even looks and sounds so physically difficult and for me it's impossible!! But by all means give it a shot!

And for those brave souls who want to try it, you can download it Here

Good Luck

Gae