Dear faithful members:

Hi, i'm Andy. Regarding to the matter as mentioned, i would like to hear any advises from you all, please.

I selected two DipABRSM repertoire, which are:

1) Piano Sonata No. 8 in C Minor, Op. 13 (Pathetique Sonata), and
2) Piano Sonata No. 14 in C Sharp Minor, Op. 27, No. 2 (Moonlight Sonata)

The first Sonata takes approximately 20 minutes, and the second one takes around 20 minutes too.

Any comments and advises, please?



Sincerely yours
Andy

Is that your entire programme or are you looking to choose either of those sonata?

Obviously if you read the syllabus you will know that you must choose a programme which is made up of a number of periods of music. You are also not allowed to have more than one piece by a composer - unless explicitly specified in the syllabus.

I'm choosing from those Sonata selections. I've two books of them, but need to know which is good for going dipABRSM.

Also, any advises for me to choose other periods of music, please.

General advice on here seems to have been that those Sonatas are so well known, you may be better off chosing a less common Sonata, if you are keen on Beethoven.

For the Sonata, if you definitely want Beethoven , then I think the Pathetique is a better choice then the 'Moonlight' (rather long slow 1st movement, though not difficult, and a much harder alst moveemnt). The Pathetique is more balanced.
But less demanding would be either of the Op14 Sonatas. I agree with Confutatis these may be a better choice.
(Or Haydn no 49 in E flat)

You need some Baroque period to start, either a pair of Scarlatti Sonatas, or a Bach Prelude and Fugue from WTC. I'd probably go for F Minor (no12) in Book 1 or D Major (No 5 ) in Book 2.

A romantic piece might be Brahms G Minor Ballade, or the Chopin Nocturne, or the two Schumann pieces from Fantasiestucke. -Des Abends and Aufschwung)

Then depending on timing of program, you could add 20th century options, I would do a pair of Shostakovich preludes from Op34, they are quite short.


That would be an example of a balanced program, but watch the total timing. You might not get 'four' types .

Anyway thats just my suggestion , others may have different ideas. Good luck with it.

Learn them both. Better still learn two or three more Beethoven sonatas from the list as well (and maybe a couple by Haydn and Mozart as well to give some context). Present whichever one you end up playing the best.

For the rest of the programme, the requirements are for a Generalist programme, covering several historical periods and a variety of mmods and styles. Obviously the examiners are looking for evidence that you can play more than just one type of music. The idea is to choose pieces that show them just what you can do. You can't go far wrong if you choose:

1. A Contrapuntal piece from the Baroque period
2. A Classical sonata
3. A romantic piece from the 19th century
4. A 20th century piece

Abandon them both.

Every couple of days here, someone comes up with these two pieces as a part of their dip repertoire. I would not like to count how many - life is too short.

Put yourself in the examiner's position. The 400'th candidate this year turns up armed to play either of these two sonatas. How do you feel?

To you, these works are magical. To me, who can play them both, they are magical if the soloist is capable of magical playing; it not, I turn them off. To an examiner, it must be lose-the-will-to-live time.

Ok, so examiners are supposed to mark the performances they hear. I have no doubt they do the best they can to do just this. Human nature dictates that overplayed works merely make the hearer either want to cry, or go to

I actually suspect that these two are rarely played in the Dip exam precisely because they are so well known - there is such a pressure of precedent to work against that most people who think of playing them get put off. I know I have been, though I still intend to learn to play them (sometime soon).

As for losing the will to live, I'm sure even examiners get the occasional really pleasant surprise: There are many pieces, in all sorts of genres, that get hackneyed beyond belief and them someone comes up with an interpretation or arrangement or performance that suddenly makes you think "Ah, that's how it's supposed to sound!" The most apt example I can think of is not what you might call classical music, though like most of "The Great American Songbook" it is certainly a classic, and that is Eva Cassidy's rendition of "Somewhere over the Rainbow".

I heard a recording on the Radio the other day of the final movement of the Pathetique (by Andras Schiff) that fell into that category: There were nuances and even tunes that he brought out that I had never heard before; the articulation was so clear and so . . . so right that I instantly felt that this, above all the other performances I had heard, was the one to aspire to.

It is not beyond the bounds of imagination that at least some candidates for the Diploma might achieve a level of performance that could begin to bring something approaching novelty to the performance of even the most overworked warhorses in the repertoire.

Having said which, I still wouldn't play either for Diploma.

Thank you so much for the recommendations. I'm living in Malaysia, so it may hard to purchase some of ABRSM publishing books. Those two sonatas were luckily brought, and i think i may able to purchase the Chopin's Norturne and Marzurka, JS Bach's 48, and maybe some books from Haydn, Mozart, Scarlatti, Schubert, and Schumann.

If i've other publication books not ABRSM publishing, can i use that books?

I'm just moderate piano student, and i passed my Grade 8 with only 105 marks. I'm not sure my ability can go for DipABRSM. So, any good optional ways for me?

My sincere gratitude for you and other members who give advises and comments...Thanks!

Of course. Check the syllabus' advice on editions - you will note that the list of repertoire for DipABRSM covers many different publishers. You may be asked in the viva voce about your choice of edition for any given piece...

Hi Andy! Welcome to the forums! I guess you are relatively new here, aren't you? I am from Singapore, so that makes us neighbours.

Congrats on passing your Grade 8! I am currently working on Grade 8 for next year's exams. I'm an adult learner.

I agree that it is tough to get specific books from bookstores in Malaysia and Singapore. I ran into that problem when doing my singing exam, and had to order soft copies over the internet.

Have you thought about borrowing books and trying some pieces out before making decisions? I am not so sure about Malaysia, but Singapore has a wealth of piano books in the Esplanade Public Library (http://www.pl.sg/). You can borrow books from there or make some copies for your own study purposes. There is a piano room for booking (reservations required), so that you can try pieces out on the spot. There are also CDs that you can borrow for listening at audio stations.

If you ever come over to Singapore for a vacation, I could bring you to that library and show you the collection. But since it is a library, not a bookstore, it could be tough to locate specific books, so you have to search the catalogue before you go there, to save time. You don't have to be a member to enter the library, but you have to be a premium member (http://www.pl.sg/page/PlLibraryGuide) if you would like to borrow anything out of the library. Let me know if you need my help, via PM.

Or if you ever go to other countries e.g. UK, Japan, look out for their music stores. The collection available in there is astounding. You'll be spoilt for choice.

I played in an amateur "Beethoven Festival" in Utrecht a few months ago. I offered to play one of the sonatas in Op 31, or something less well known like Op 22 or something interesting from his late period like Op 101, but the organizer asked me (and these are pretty much his exact words): "Can't you play something more popular like the Moonlight or the Pathetique".

I played the Pathetique.

[An earlier participant absolutely murdered the Moonlight. Violence was also done to Op 2 No 1 (or at least to that half of the notes Beethoven wrote that were actually played). Someone else played a MOZART Fantasia, which came as rather a surprise. There was a trio in which the instruments at times seemed to be playing in different keys. But here is the important thing ... the performances were enjoyable despite their flaws. ]

I used to think that no-one played the Pathetique properly. Not Schnabel, not Brendel, not Pollini, Taube, Arrau, Brautigam, Barenboim, Kempff, Kentner, Gulda .... <many other famous pianists> ....

But I recently discovered Horowitz's interpretation and it is as close as it gets to perfect. I don't know how he did it. He sat ridiculously low, very close, stooped forward, often with his wrists below keyboard level, and often extended fingers looking scary like the hands of some character in a Hammer Horror. Then he goes and produces such wonderful sounds with absolutely precise and impeccable timing.

I don't know whether I am inspired, or if I just want to give up!

Thanks for the advise. I can play the 1st and 2nd movement of pathetique sonata, and now go for 3rd movement. The best handle for me is the 2nd movement, and need some polish in the 1st movement.

Meanwhile, i can play very well at the 1st and 2nd movement of Moonlight sonata. However, i haven't learn the 3rd movement.

So, i'm bit of confuse to select those two repertoire...hahah. One thing is i just practice those two repertoires around 3 months. Maybe i need more time and complete the pieces, then make the final decision.

Y-yes, i'm adult learning student. So, my ability might not that good. Thus, some periods of songs i might not heard or play from it. Nevertheless, i'm quite good in classical and romantic playing.

Not sure if i can play these two sonatas together for DipABRSM? But, i'm sure the examiner might not interesting because of two same classical songs and also same composers!

Actually, i'm already 27. Still adult learning student, also not very fluent in English...

So, any comments for me from all faithful members in Diploma forum, please?

No, you shouldnt play two Sonatas by the same composer. As I said earlier you need a varied porgramme, baroque, classical , romantic, and more modern if you can fit all four in , or at least three. And as others have said it would really be better to play a lesser known classical sonata than the Moonlight or the Pathetique.

Thanks, i make sure i note it down. Thank you very much.

I go to see if i can purchase Bach's "48", Chopin's mazurka or norturne. For modern period, i gotta see if i can possible to get in.

I still haven't play and learn. So, please give the best choice of repetoire selection for Bach's "48". About Chopin's marzuka or norturne, which one should inspire the examiner?

Currently i only have those two original sonatas, maybe i go to search more shops for other possible way to buy ABRSM publishing for diploma. About the moonlight and pathetique sonata, should i keep on practicing both of them?

Still need some of your recommendation, please.

Thanks, and have a nice day.

If you only recently passed grade 8. I would not set a date for the diploma yet, not start learnng pieces esepcially for it. I'd study lots of the pieces from the diploma list - not necessarily polishing them up for performance, but generally getting to grips with them, and only then choose a selection of them to present in an exam.

There is no requirement to use ABRSM publications, or the recommended publisher for any particular piece. Most of the time any edition is acceptable. A lot of the music is available for free (and legally) on the internet, so you only need download and print it.

The Moonlight and Pathetique are wonderful pieces of music, even if they are hackneyed. They are popular for a reason. Definitely worth the effort of continuing to practice and improve them.

Congrats on passing your Grade 8! I am currently working on Grade 8 for next year's exams. I'm an adult learner.

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Thanks you very much. If i drop by to Singapore, may contact you...hahah.

Y-yes, i'm adult learner. Same as you said...wish to become piano teacher in future.


Best wishes and good luck for your grade 8 piano exam. See ya.

Thank you very much for such great information. I've some books that're not ABRSM published, but those books consist some DipABRSM repertoire list.

If i use those books, should be no problem right? Now, i go see any possible repertoire list can be found inside those books.

Ok, i go study and practice more first. Probably will go for DipABRSM next 2 years...

Now, i go see any possible repertoire selection from those books not ABRSM published. After i'm done, will ask for comments from you all faithful members.

Thank you, and wish you all the best.


Best wishes for all members,
Andy

Yes, thank you for the publication advises. If i want to download and print from the internet for free, which website do you recommend for me?

Dear members, i found two repertoires from other books which are not ABRSM published. They are:

1) Debussy - "La Cathedrale engloutie"
2) Schubert - Impromtu in Gb, Op. 90 No. 3

Please leave any comments and advises for these two repertoires.

Would just like to mention now Andy I will be in both KL and Singapore (and probably Hong Kong and Manila as well) in January next (my 15th visit over 20 yrs, and probably also my last). I am always happy to meet any forumites over there. More details Oct/Nov.

Both the Debussy and Schubert are nice pieces and pretty well known. If you fit in 4 pieces (Baroque, Classical Sonata, Romantic, and one later piece), the Schubert would come as No 3, and the Debussy maybe acceptable as 3 or 4)

Thank you so much for such great recommendations. All right, i'll take these two repertoires, which are Schubert's Impromptu in Gb, Op. 90 No. 3 and Debussy's "La Cathedrale engloutie", for my future dipABRSM.

Now, i need to select only one baroque piece. Guess, i pick JS Bach's :The Well-Tempered Clavier". So, any recommendation for selecting repertoire from "48"

Ok, i wait for your news when you're coming to KL, Malaysia. Thank you, fsharpminor.

Take care, and have a nice day. See ya.

My WTC recommendation from those on the list would be Book 1 in F Minor. One of my favourites is the D Major in Book 2. Prelude is not too difficult but the fugue is rather fiddly as the fugue subject is so closely knit, at a fairly gentle tempo. That would be my alternative.

Thanks, pal. I practice both of Book 1 in F Minor and Book2 of D Major. Then, i choose the best one to present. Meanwhile, i do the same method to select my classical sonatas.

Ok, so these my first decision of programme for dipABRSM repertoire selections:

1) JS Bach's "48" book 1 of F Minor or book 2 of D Major (Choose one that i can perform the best)

2) Beethoven's "Pathetique Sonata" or "Moonlight Sonata" (Choose one that i can perform the best)

3) Schubert's Impromptu in Gb, Op. 90 No. 3

4) Debussy's "La Cathedrale engloutie"

Once again, i would like to express my sincere gratitude for all of faithful members' time for giving me such great idea of advises and recommendations.

Any comments from you all are welcome.

My best wishes for you all... Thank you!


Best wishes,
Andy

Assuming the timing is right - and I think it should be - nice program. Good luck.

Bit of a delayed reaction on my part, but for what it's worth Andy Lok, yes it looks like it will be a well balanced programme - whichever choices you finally decide on from your options listed above.

Just to take a slightly different view to those expressed so far on this thread (not that I disagree with them)...

MadTom's overall structure for achieving a balanced programme, I think is tremendous-

Baroque - contrapuntal;
Classical - sonata;
19th century - 'romantic' stand-alone piece;
20th century - piece(s) to finish with.

But looking again at the diploma syllabus repertoire list, are there alternative ways of achieving a good balance?

For example:

Baroque - sonatas x2 (Scarlatti) or maybe a Toccata (J S Bach);
Classical - set of variations (Mozart/Beethoven/Haydn);
Early 20th Century - prelude(s) (Debussy/Scriabin/Shostakovich) or etude (Szymanowski);
Contemporary - a work by a living composer.

etc etc etc

When dreaming up possible 'programmes', it's a great exercise in exploring how to achieve contrast, balance, variety, cohesion, and so on.

Endless fun

denmark

...not forgetting Rachmaninov's (Early 20th Century) Preludes...

Although he lived until 1943 (dying in Beverley Hills!) and the bulk of his work was written in the 20th Century, nonetheless I always think of Rach as not only a romantic composer but quite possibly the most romantic composer. Note the small 'r' in 'romantic' there; I would like to think he qualifies as a Romantic composer (a big 'R' for the Romantic period), but whether he does or not, I think that putting him in a Dip program as a modernist is risky at best.

Incidentally, the same applies to the Szymanowksi etude on the Dip list (?1901?): Think of it as late Romantic rather than early Modern.

I see your point Robodoc, and I agree.

I was only suggesting other ways of achieving balance by thinking of works which could provide maximum contrast with Classical sonata or set of variations and with a contemporary, present-day work. And so, my ideas included works at the turn of the 20th century. But granted, whereas Rach is romantic/Romantic, Debussy is more post-Romantic/early modern...

denmark