Ok

yesterday I had a chat with my current violin teacher, been learning with him ever since I first held a violin in my hands (that was 2 yrs and 5 months ago).
I 'feel' I need different teaching methods/approach now that I have grown as a player and that although he is a very nice person and an experienced player, he might not meet my particular needs.

I am afraid either he does not understand me (or I don't understand him) or I am asking him to be the teacher he is not, either way, I could not achieve a compromise with him.

So now I am looking for a new teacher (have not told my current teacher yet of my intentions but when I find my new teacher I will give him notice).

Have contacted one prospective person, he is apparently very experienced (studied witih Sascha Lasserson if anyone knows this teacher, I don't) and teaches to diploma and beyond to all ages.
On the phone he seemed like he might be the 'type' I need.

I have told him I would do a couple of trial lessons (paid) and see how we get on, he is more expensive than my current teacher, but I don't mind.

I have written out a couple of pages explaining: my long term goals, my short term goals, what I 'expect' from a teacher and what can a teacher 'expect' from me
it will take 1 minute or 2 to read, its bullet pointed and concise with a brief explanation for each point.

Do you think I will come across as a 'freak' when I ask him to read my list so that he can get an idea of what type of things I hope to find?

The list is a 'guide' for him to know what I think and what I want to achieve, it can be discussed, it could be that I have some really 'out of reach' expectations and he could comment on this.

I would be happy to post my list on here if any of you would like to read it and comment on it.

I am meeting him this saturday

Thank you

I think it's a great idea - there can be no mis-understanding about what you would like to learn/how you would like to be taught / what your expectations are, & much clearer when put in writing. If you would like someone to read through it you could PM it to me?

you absolutely will not come across as a freak, you know what you want and need and there is no point starting out with a different teacher if it is not the right one. Hope you enjoy your lesson on Saturday I always feel dreadfully nervous meeting a new teacher.

Your being honest and thats important. It's much better to let him know what you are looking for then go in having false expectations and leaving him at a later date. I don't think you should worry about it. It's a good idea.

AAAwwww thank you everyone for your prompt replies!

I must admit, I AM nervous about meeting a new teacher and I would like to try and make sure this is going to be the one suitable for me forever although you can never tell as once you start developing you may find that things change......
in my dreams I'd love to find a teacher who sees me for many years to come or 'forever' kind of thing

I will definitely let you know how my first meeting goes

I'm sure it will be fine, surely teachers much prefer students who are keen and interested/focussed on what they want to do!




My current teacher is leaving soon and my new one came to my lesson the other day

That's two people I had to play in front of!
Luckily it was fine though,

Well done for playing in front of 2 teachers !!!!

hope you will have many valuable/enjoyable lessons with your new teacher

It's good that you know what you want to do and where you want to go. Sometimes changing teacher is the only option. My boys have both had more than one teacher on their instruments and have benefited from it.
I think I should be ok with mine for a bit longer but I have taken advantage of extra help when the opportunity has arisen. The scariest thing I've done was playing in front of my son's teacher but it was well worth it. He didn't interfere with my teacher's teaching just complimted it with things I can do to help me and my son. It was also good to know that I'm on the right track with development.

If this teacher is who I think he is, you will not need your list. He will know what you need, he is very experienced and easy to talk to.
He will work you hard, if he is right for you, you will come out shattered but elated.
Hope you enjoy it!

Miffy

Thank you StringMum to share your experience, nice to know

Miffy, I have sent you a pm! I am surprised you have immediately thought of someone, is it because there is not many teachers who had Sascha Lasserson as a teacher here in the UK?

(I am intrigued now....the violinists world may not be as big as I thought it was!)

All sounds very sensible to me. A student who knows what they want from their studies is very good for a decent teacher. There's nothing worse than, 'Oh, whatever, you know!'

Well done Jo!!! A really exciting step !

I think your list is a great idea and I would have done exactly the same.


Sadly I'm thinking of taking a year off lessons/exams etc to concentrate on my degree but I'm still hoping to join the orchestra in August and go along a couple of times a month

Let us know how you get on - I'm dying to hear all about it!!!!

Lottie! about the no lessons for a year, but hey, life is life and when you are 'grown up' like us (in age not in the head ) then different commitments take hold of you! DO go to the orchestra as you said as that will keep your playing going and you will probably still progress in your ability anyway! I am finding the orchestra a real help!!!

As for my teacher, I have managed to hear from someone who knows him and he sounds like a real 'pearl', I might be onto a winner here!!!! Watch this thread as I will post on Saturday!!!

Saturday will be very busy:
9 am luthier shop to get a new shoulder rest/chin rest (I know I can adjust things better)
10:30 new teacher's lesson
2pm last official orchestral reahearsal before concert (although I am not taking part in concert I don't want to miss any rehearsals!)
7pm at church hall getting ready for concert (I will go there to support them and check tickets at door!!!)
9:30pm concert ends

Sunday work from 6am to 9pm

Any chance of Monday... ?

Good luck with it all - let us know how the lesson goes

NO Lottie!!! it's work again 6am start for me!
it's a tough life ours!!

ps just noticed a change in your signature: you love cuddling chickens! you must be just about as much nuts as I am! LOL

I'm lucky that I found a viola teacher who's experienced at teaching adults.

My first year of learning, I had adult group lessons, there were about 5 of us in a class and I really enjoyed it. But I never went back for the second year because I just didn't have time for weekly group lessons. So I started looking for a private teacher. I must have tried about 3 or 4 different teachers and none of them worked out. I had about 2 lessons each with the teacher and then gave up on them, I just didn't like their teaching style, maybe it was because they're use to teaching children and didn't know how to go about teaching me. I felt like I was leading the lesson, they would ask me what I want to do that lesson - how am I suppose to know what I'm suppose to be learning! Their attitude was "oh she's not going to get anywhere with it, just let her play what she wants and take it from there".

I got fed up of looking for a teacher, so I stuck with this particular teacher for about 6 months as she was okay. But my lessons were quite boring, she didn't really motivate or push me, I didn't want to do grade exams, so we just played through the pieces, she would never give me anything extra too learn ie. suggest technical studies or exercises. Lessons were repetitive and I didn't make much progress. Plus sometimes she would forget what she taught me in the last lesson! I'm not saying she's a bad teacher, but her style just wasn't right for me.

Then luckily earlier this year, a friend recommended a teacher to me who's experienced in teaching adults. I knew she was the right teacher after my first lesson, I went home feeling enthusiastic and felt like I learnt a lot. She would recommend books, recommend studies, let me borrow her books or music, she was feeding me with information and motivating me to learn. For example, in my grade 4 book of music, there's something in the 2nd position, my old teacher wouldn't give me extra study material, we would just learn that piece of music and that was it. Whereas my new teacher would be enthusiastic and say "I've got some good exercises for 2nd position, let me give you that." She's brilliant. I really feel like I'm learning. But then another friend has a lesson with my teacher and found her a bit overwhelming and intensive. So at the end of the day, everyone is different. You should try a few teachers and see how you get on. It's good that you know what you're looking for.

Good luck!

You are indeed right Moon,
having spent 2 and a half years with a teacher who only gets me to play pieces, never asks me to play ONE scale, refuses to help me play technical studies/exercises as he says I should be practicing 3 hours a day to have time to dedicate to those (I think like your teacher he thinks being an adult means you can only want or can achieve playing a few pieces and nothing more), I now KNOW very well that what I want/need is a teacher who treats me like a person who wants to SERIOUSLY learn to play the violin WELL, just like a music college student. I too want to learn a solid technique etc, I don't care I am 40 this year and I might be 60 by the time I am ready to study at diploma level, it is that I am achieving for!
So this new teacher sounds just like the right medication for me!
I have heard from a student of his that he is exactly what I am looking for!

My teacher is pretty good with technical stuff. She knows that I want to do exams as well as be a well rounded player. So although we have done exam pieces I have also worked on other things. We do scales every lesson and then work on pieces.

that sounds like a normal teacher to me Terra
thought there was nothing out of place with my one not asking me to play one scale EVER in 2 and a half years!

I do think it's a bit strange that your teacher didn't ask you to play them. I would have been confused as most teachers want you to play scales.

I think it depends on the system, really.

In France scales are very uncommon in violin tuition to begin with - generally after the end of the regional conservatoire system (grade 8 ish) students will begin serious scale studies and work on them in depth.

This approach doesn't seem to stop people becoming great violinists over here.

However, as JoJo's teacher was supposedly preparing her for ABRSM exams in which scales are a requirement, it does seem very odd to me indeed!

Hope your new teacher is better for you JoJo and well done on the clip on Youtube - when do we get a Gandalf one?

You want more ???? now that's what I call 'sadistic'

seriously though, I did think about putting one on with Gandalf, will do it in the next few days, promise
but now I really want to buy a good microphone, this one didnt do my violin any justice, sounded like a tin-toy!

You could tell it was the microphone and not you! You did really well!

Well done for you youtube clip (very brave!), I look forward to the Gandalf one!

I think I learned the A major scale in my first lesson (admittedly that one is very easy!). I find scales are useful to check and work on my tuning it would be even harder without them!

Ok, I am EXHAUSTED!
we had an hour today (with my new teacher).
He like the fact I gave him a list with my long term and short term goals on it.
He said he will enjoy teaching me as I 'use my brain'
What did we do?
He asked me to play G major 3 octaves and I did, from there he was OFF!
He corrected the way I shift, I get my notes right, I just don't shift the right way (with the right technique) so he taught me that and I remember my previous teacher telling me about it, only once he told me about it he then let me do it the wrong way without ever revisiting that!
He was VERY picky and would not let me off with anything which wasn't 'perfect', my brain was HURTING!
he then went on make me play scales on one string only shifting first with my first and second finger only then my second and third only then my third and fourth only
Then I played my grade 5 B3 piece for him (sicilienne) and he showed me different shifting/fingering for that, now I have to practice the 'correct way' to shift in my B3 piece.
Sent me away with homework:
Sevcik op1 part 2 exercise 12 just the first 2 bars, to then practice my scales on one string only with the correct shifting as above and then practice sicilienne with new fingering/shifting and just go over Giga A5 piece as he wants to do a bit of that next week.
I can see he will work me hard!
I certainly need that as I've been left to 'fluff about' for too long.
He also gave me a simple exercise to help my 'thumb positioning' throughout the fingerboad, my thumb was not doing the right thing apparently
asked me to get (if I can) sevcik op 1 part 1, which I will
Next lesson friday evening, 1 hour.
I will stick religiously to what he told me every day.
Suddenly I don't care anymore if I am going to sit grade 5 in december, I just want to do the homework he gave me, I trust that if I do what he says my playing will improve heaps.

That sounds like a good lesson! I always like a lesson that makes me feel excited and enthusiastic about learning Glad your lesson went well.

Just wondering, what is the "correct" way of shifting. I've tried lots of teachers and I've been told different things. My current teacher is happy with my shifting as she shifts in the same way i.e. move the whole hand and fingers in one movement, but I've been told by other teachers to move the thumb first.

Keep up the good work and I'm sure you'll see big improvements! I really should do more practice, I'm so terrible.

Glad you like your new teacher and hope that you now feel more possitive about the move!

oh, now you got me! the 'correct way of shifting'....
well, what I meant with my experience today is that I was just going from one note to another without any 'logic' into it.
He reminded me about 'guide notes' when you shift, ie:
going from E in 3rd position on A string (using 2nd finger) down to B in 1st position (1st finger), I was just going from E to B straight without using the 'guide note'. So he made me do E (2nd finger in 3rd position) down to Csharp (2nd finger 1st position) and then play B with my first finger.
So your 2nd finger is the 'guide note' (he called it the 'walking stick), you slide down to first position with that finger then play your note (in this case B) with first finger (not sure if I am explaining this right )
when you first do this you practice so that you hear your second finger slide down to Csharp, when you hear Csharp you raise your second finger put down your first to play B (the note you were intending to play). As you practice and get better the slide will eventually 'disappear' so that you are still doing the movement with your hand/fingers but don't hear the slide anymore nor Csharp.

am I making any sense here????

Anyway, I think this is a basic technique all violinists learn at first and then it becomes second nature.
He said there should not be any 'guess work' when shifting but all based on the above technique.

Anyway, I better go and eat my dinner now

Yes it makes sense Jo but it's all news to me

I've always just had to guess... even when in fourth position on my viola and it's always a bit hairy!

It all sounds positive news to me! glad everything went well!

I haven't a clue about shifting, that's something for later on for me I think!

Exciting times Jo - I love the way you take control of your music and think your commitment is inspirational. I sometimes worry that I am so attached to my cello teacher. it would be like a bereavement if she were to move on! Seriously, I have had three teachers and the first two were, for various reasons excellent in their field but not a good fit for me, so I know well both the anticipation and apprehension of moving to a new teacher. I really look forward to hearing about your progress both with the new teacher and on Gandalf!

Thank you Miss Sooky, I can tell you this new violin teacher will work me to the ground!!! But I am ready for it and will stand back up to take more!!

I like that he seemed to treat me 'seriously' and was really pushing me like I was some music college teenage prodigy who was training to become the next famoust soloist!
Although I will not be the next Sarah Chang it is nice to be given some 'welly' and taught things properly and seriously, not just 'fluffing about' as you're 40 years old work full time and you'll never make it anywhere with the violin so be grateful to just about play a tune or two (sorry for my sarcasm, but I guess I was feeling a little let down by my previous teacher, that after I was honest with him and told him I wanted to learn 'seriously' etc he just refused to.).

As for Gandalf, check out the lower strings thread, my teacher seems to be VERY positive that she will get me playing grade 5 tunes in the next one to two months and join an orchestra with the bass by november! (she seems to forget I already told her I cannot join 2 orchestras, am already struggling attending one!)

Jojo, I'm so happy for you!!! This is THE teacher you want and I can tell that you'll learn alot from him!! Yes, we are adults, and for most of us, this is a hobby, we aint' going to curtis or Julliard, but we want to do well too!! I don't like it that some teachers view adults differently. I totally understand and agree that they need to talk tous differently, and use different ways to commnicate or teach us things, but don't neglect all the technical exercises/scales just because we are not the next Sarah Chang!!

Today, I had a tough lesson, but it made me so happy. My teacher spent the whole lesson tearing my Vivaldi G minor concerto down, criticizing the phrasing, every note. She asked me to watch videos on youtube of my favorite violinist and watch how they use the bow to make one quarter note different from another. Use alot of dynamics.. etc. I was exhausted but I felt like she's treating me like any of her other students. Makes me super happy!

How is your orchestra rehearsal going btw?

I love teachers who criticize even the smallest tinyest error with a piece. This i a sign of a quality teacher in my mind.

Also can't believe you never did scales for 2.5 years! You must have sensed something lacking in your lessons.

I also do scales evry lesson

20 mins scales.
20 min piece(s).
20 mins theory. If I wern't doing grade 5 thory I would probably just do more work on pieces.

Violin Hero, is the break-down above (three 20 minutes slots) what you do in your daily practice or in your lessons with teacher?
I try to practice an hour every day (6 days a week mostly) and not sure how I will spend it, but probably half of that on sevcik/shifting exercises/scales then 25 minutes on exam piece/pieces and last 5 minutes playing something 'from the past'

How often do you have lessons? I am going to have an hour lesson a week with this new teacher.

And yes, never did scales in 2 and a half years, not joking, actually, did them in just ONE lesson and that was the lesson before my grade 1 exam back in June 2007 (exam I entered on my own accord, teacher never mentioned any exam, I got a distinction but not thanks to him as I did theory on my own and aural with a piano teacher).

That was my general lesson layout.

In practice I will do 2 15 minute sessions on scales per day. I find scales a bit boring so break it down in the 2 sessions.

Then I will probably do 30 minutes min a day on pieces. Will play throuh slowly stpping to correct out of tune notes or work any ou where i don't recognise what fingering to do etc...

I will always have a day off every week. The day varies depending on which days I am busy on.

Sounds like we have similar practice sessions then

Had my 2nd lesson with my new teacher today.
A few days ago I bought Sevcik op 1 part 1 and Kreutzer 42 studies/caprices for violin, showed them to him and he was 'delighted', he quickly got them on the music stand and 'prescribed me' a few exercises from sevcik for intonation/smoothing fingers out and kreutzer for bowing technique He checked on what I did over the past week and he said he could hear improvement in my intonation already.
I showed him this 'chromatic tuner' I have and told him that sometimes I use it to check if I am 'in the right place', he shook his head and said 'no no no' don't use that! use your ears and check against open strings instead!

At the end of the lesson I said to him I chose my pieces for grade 5 exam as that is my next 'short term target', to sit grade 5. I said to him: 'is it alright I chose the pieces? the syllabus is good until 2011 and I should be able to sit grade 5 by 2011??', he said: 'You will do that in December'
THAT made me really happy as apparently he is a very strict teacher and all his students get distinctions as he only 'lets them' enter for the exam when they are really ready for it. So that must give me reassurance that I must be at the level I thought I was, sometimes I wondered if I was 'kidding myself'

So....I guess I have found myself a new teacher

He's really good, he got his LRSM diploma at age 16, I feel quite honoured to have him as a teacher. He certainly knows lots of things from front to back, he would just recall any studies just like that, what number they are, at what page and what notes I am supposed to play NEXT without even looking at the book so obviously a very good memory too

My orchestral rehearsal are on hold, orchestra is having 'summer vacation' now and we don't meet again until first week in september

That's lovely, jojo! Finding a teacher can be such a headache, but you seem to have found just the right person for you. It sounds as though he wll make you work hard, but that's good because that's what achieves results.

He sounds like fantastic teacher, I'm happy that you've found the right teacher for you

Your post about shifting (last time I asked you do you shift) - I know what you mean! I use to guess where to shift to (i got into a bad habit) and my teacher told me I should use guide notes and don't just jump to a note. I was surprised that my old teacher never spotted my bad habit.

Your teacher sounds really good! I should do more technical exercises as well, I'm quite lazy with my practice, you put me to shame!

Have fun practicing

By the way, just curious, are you paying more money for this teacher? I'm paying the same price for my old and new teacher. My lessons are £30 per hour. I know some people who pays £22 for half an hour or £40 per hour for a lesson. I'm in London, so those prices are reasonable but personally I find £40 per hour quite expensive! But if the teacher is good, it's definitely worth it.

I think my new teacher 'is' good I even received an email from him today just re-capping what he wants me to practice over this week, loved it when I received it
but I don't know how I can put you to shame, I only practice an hour a day
I am really really 'eager' to get to grade 8 that I am now going parhanoid with my practice, I just HAVE to practice no matter how tired I am or how late it is in the day! (I have been pushing it a bit playing Double bass from 9 to 10pm ), I just keep telling myself it will be 'many more years' to grade 8 if I dare to 'skip' my practice LOL It will still probably take a few years anyway, but will take longer without 'good/constructive' and regular practice!

I pay £34 p/hour and do an hour a week

my previous teacher was £26 p/hour

But my current teacher charges more I think for post-grade 8 (I think, will tell you when I get there LOL), he will also charge more if you have the 'occasional consultation' rather than regular lessons.

Th price is fairly high at 34p/h. However a good uality teacher is always worth the expenditure as long as you continue playing for several years.

I pay £30 p/h which is certainly worth it. Especially as he often makes a trip to my house specialy to teach me. I think he just likes to see my mums house! Compared to his one bed flat it is a palace.

now I want to see your mum's house too!
On that basis I don't understand why my teacher teaches from his base, his flat is not very 'entertaining' BUT, his lessons are SO interesting you soon forget where you are, you could be absolutely anywhere you, just see yourself, the music stand and him, he really keeps your attention focused!

About the price I don't know to be honest, some tell me he's 'cheap' some tell me he's 'dear', when I look at other teachers advertising fees (on music teachers website) some charge more (not many though), it seems the most 'regular price' or 'popular' around london (for grade 1 to 8 standard of playing/teaching) is between £25 and £40 per hour the majority between £25 and £30.

I don't think that 36 per hour is excessive at all. I charge considerably more than that for singing lessons and my own fiddle teacher charges 50 euro per hour. As students we should strive to understand that our teachers need to make a living and that out of 36 and hour, the teacher probably ends up with (at least in France - I don't know about English fiscality any more) a little less than half of that.

People who say 'oh that's expensive' often mean 'oh that appears to be lots more than I earn' - however a teacher isn't working 35 hours a week and doesn't keep anywhere near the full amount paid, nor do they get paid during the holidays.

Mini rant, I know, but I get tired of the 'how much is costing me per minute' brigade and much prefer the 'how much is it costing me per result' approach.

VH - perhaps if you teacher dared charge more he wouldn't be so in awe of your home?

My teacher is freelance and the only cost to him is travel. This is why he now charges £30 as opposed to £27 when I used to go t his flat before he moved. There is nobody else taking a cut of his pay.

Of course he supplements the private teaching with classroom teacher twice a week and sometimes does concerts etc.

Glad to hear that your lessons are going so well! It's really frustrating to be told that all is fine when you know darn well that it's not, so I can imagine how much more motivating you find your new teacher.

Prices...of course the exchange rate varies a lot, but Viohazard's violin and theory/composition lessons cost a similar amount, and I know very well that the rates could double or triple for a popular and prestigious teacher. Who was it on these very forums that said something along the lines of a lesson being worth the money if one hour of lessons gets you further ahead than 3 hours of trying to nut it out by yourself?

£34 ph is cheap as chips for a really good teacher.
I believe the going rate for a conservatoire teacher (although most don't have the time/inclination to take on private "non-standard" pupils) is in the region of £100 ph.

Of course there are other people taking a cut of his pay! This is where it's clear you've never been self-employed or run a business. He has overheads to pay, social security contributions, income tax etc.



That seems perfectly reasonable to me, too Discopants - you pay for the results, rather than the time and a well known and respected teacher should provide more results more quickly, therefore charges more.

wow - £34 seems like a lot to me; not because i think the teacher doesn't need it, but if my teacher charged that, i probably wouldn't be able to afford lessons, or at least not as often. my flute teacher charges £20 ph, which seems to be about normal around here; on the other hand, i'm sure he could charge more if he wanted, as he's an excellent teacher (and flautist) -- but he's a student rather than a full-time teacher, which might have something to do with it.

I would say 1 hour each day is quite good for grade 5!