So what's the worst your precious child has repeated back after (s)he came out of an exam? Here's a paraphrasing from this morning (GVIII exam, year 12 student):

"He asked me if I was thinking of music as a career. I said yes. He told me to think very carefully about that... ... Funny thing is, he said he'd enjoyed my playing."

All part of life's rich tapestry.

Don't read too much into this. It could well be a general note of caution rather than on the playing for the exam.

My year 9 daughter is quite enjoying seeing the reaction of the connections staff when she says her career choice is music Once they get over the shock she's told to have a back-up plan

It is a rather strange comment although I don't think it is necessarily negative. Examiners should be very careful what they say as it can have a huge impact on a teenager if misinterpreted.

When I was young there was a comment on my grade 7 piano mark sheet which said that I needed to learn some control over the piano if I was to take it any further. Of course that was supposed to be a helpful remark but I read it as saying I was rubbish and shouldn't bother to go on to grade 8 and promptly gave up the piano (which I regret now).

IN my last flute exam 3 years ago, the examiner said that I was to play with other people because she could tell that the piano was putting me off what I was playing. So I joined the orchestra and I am much better at playing with the piano.

The comment contains good advice which should be given by teachers to any of their pupils aspiring to make music their career. The musical profession is overcrowded and precarious. It is also increasingly competitive and can easily turn you off making music which should be enjoyable and harmonious (forgive the pun )

Thanks for the replies, reassuring and sensible


I hope so! But sights have been lowered which is probably a good thing


I agree about examiners' (as distinct from teachers') comments. At that age I don't suppose it occurred to you that to have got to Grade VII was an achievement already?


Well done - you took the comment constructively.


Absolutely, and it's been said to her by every teacher she's ever had [Hmmm. Thinks... ].
But this was an examiner, and it was the juxtaposition of her playing and his comment that worried her. She later saw the funny side - can't say whether good humour will survive a disappointing result but that bridge is not yet in view. Also, she said wasn't used to being engaged in conversation by an examiner and thought she could say only yes or no - so that must have been a rivetting exchange for him.

I wonder if this is a new policy on the part of AB. In her last Jazz exam the examiner engaged Emsoboe in conversation. He was very supportive of her efforts which was very nice.

I wonder that too - and if so, I wish they'd make it clear so candidates know what to expect and how to react. A few years back an examiner made a nice comment at the end of one of my daughter's pieces, and her teacher, accompanist, other experienced parents who heard about it were shocked. This time, a younger examinee who went immediately before my daughter had evidently had rather a pleasant chat about music careers with the examiner, possibly because she wasn't fixated on the older more formal format (or maybe she was simply quicker on the uptake).

I don't imagine any of this affects the exam outcome however

The only thing an examiner said to my son other than the usual was when my son had played a scale and out of habit started a second run, as he does in practice. The examiner just said 'once is enough!' but he smiled, so my son knew it wasn't an awful thing to've done, just a daft one Other than that, there's been no change in the amount of communication that I'm aware of, but then my son isn't that forthcoming after exams

My daughter did dance exams long before music ones and she was used to the formality. In the early days (before we knew better) she did the MS Certificate. On about the second occassion the examiner started having a conversation with her about instruments and grades and what she would be taking next. She thought he was really strange. It didn't lesson the shock when the Jazz examiner chatted with her

OF COURSE! Well spotted. And I sent her to ballet when she'd far sooner have been grubbing about in the garden. Oh well, a mother's place is in the wrong.

The trouble with a back-up plan is that it takes time and energy away from what you really want to do.

Success in your chosen field is more likely when there is no Plan B.

The proper advice is - statistically you are unlikely to "make it" as a performer. You might want to consider having a fall-back plan.

I personally think that there is no need to prepare for a "safe" career in case your dream does not work out as you hope. It is not difficult to train for something else in your 20's and 30's. You will be a few years behind on the career ladder, but if you cared about that your dream would be of becoming CEO of a multinational, a ground-breaking surgeon, or a top barrister, ... whatever ... and not the dream of packing them in at Carnegie Hall.

With kids though, aptitude is not immediately apparent - and then plans B and C very much have their place, whilst they develop. Also, who makes the choice? I'm not convinced that the parent pre-deciding for their offspring necessarily will have the most honourable motives behind their decision...

Musical learning has all sorts of knock-on benefits to other aspects of life, just as other life experiences also inform our music. I know a lad who did ballet from age 9 to 13: he still moves more gracefully than his contemporaries, but of far more interest to him is his ability to do different things with all four limbs at once, and an excellent sense of rhythm, both of which stand him in good stead when he is drumming.

My offspring wants Music. That being the case we give her all the support we can. I wouldn't be upset if she suddenly decided later this year or at the end of GCSE that she wanted to do something totally different. Music wouldn't have been my career choice for her. Not that I would dream of making that decision.

The thing with music, to be a professional musician you need training and experience. If you don't take the opportunities that come along to acquire this then the chances of a good musical education later will be weaker. All the opportunites won't harm any other career as long as school work is kept up. It's a great hobby and there are endless social opportunities.

It sounds like the child in question has taken this as a negative remark though: Implying that she should think carefully about music as a career, perhaps because the examiner didn't feel she was good enough at it. That's a bit worrying.

I think the examiner intended to suggest that music is a pain in the neck to make anything of, and not going to make most who persue it wealthy! Therefore the decision as to whether to try and make a career of it might be less straightforward than if you plan to be a doctor or lawyer.

Exactly. My plan A is obviously becoming a professional oboist/teacher and it's very unlikely I would be good enough to become one but I will put the work in. plan B involves going to uni after A levels and as long as the subjects I chose are good then I hope that won't be a huge problem.

You're spot-on. And it was worrying - not least because she has to be able to take knocks and bounce back. Not being cruel, just realistic. With hindsight, she agrees (=hopes) the examiner probably meant exactly as you say - if she had been truly awful he would probably not have asked her anything. He wasn't to know he had Ms Worrier-Extraordinaire in front of him. She knows she worries too much (and I know who she gets it from...); she has been known to worry about worrying.

Thank you everyone for your advice and support.

I suspect our Plan B involves making a back-up plan. It usually does. But it means she doesn't spend time worrying (!) about things that might not be needed. It's tough enough getting the absolutely-essential done. And her Dr Jekyll side is Ms Optimist - odd combination maybe, but it keeps her on the tightrope of life most of the time.

After reading all these replies, I couldn’t resist adding my own story to this.

Whilst studying in my last year of A-levels my (class) music teacher asked if I planned on going to Uni the next year and what would I study. When I replied ‘music’ she snorted and said ‘well I suppose you can try!’

Fortunately I played with some successful music groups as one of the principal musicians so I managed to ignore their comments but still found it very hurtful and a stupid thing to say!

There were very few people who studied music at this school and I think it is pretty clear why. I am now a teacher myself and make sure that I NEVER NEVER say anything that could be taken badly. I would hate for one of my students to leave a lesson feeling like I did.

(incidentally - I am now a lot more qualified than the teacher in question!)

And that gives you a nice warm feeling - totally justified, I'd say.

Would like to know how the student did in the exam?

Sorry for the silence - the results came in just before we went on holiday, and we’re just back. She got 133 - the all-important distinction, which came as something of a relief given the examiners’ comments that prompted this thread. HURRAH.

But (OK start shooting, I have my body armour on) to quote a text I sent a friend “are we unreasonable to be rather less than ecstatic?” I don’t know what she was really hoping for, but a couple of her friends (not junior conservatioire, but learning locally – one with her own previous teacher) had earlier achieved marks in the upper 130s.

To deal with the examiners’ comments first, in light of the results he was spot-on. It’s a distinction but a low one – and she’s 17. To make it at all as a violinist you have to be outstanding, and in his opinion she was not, so he was right to suggest she should rethink. The breakdown of marks for the pieces don't (we think) indicate a high opinion of her playing (although we have yet to see the comments), and they compare poorly with marks for her second-instrument Grade VIII six months before. By her own admission her sight-reading was dismal, although scales and aural were given good marks, far far better than for the second-instrument Grade VIII.

The overall mark for the two exams was the same – but she was pleased, gleeful almost, with the bassoon result. In essence, she perceived that in the bassoon exam her pieces (28,28,29 I think) pulled her up to a distinction, but relatively speaking her pieces (25,27,28) pulled her down to the same mark in the violin exam. (There’s actually only 5 marks difference overall – so fire away at me – but I’m talking perception.)

Given the examiners’ opinion as indicated by the marks, his comments were justified and presumably well meant. She is rethinking applying for music – although she may well go for it after all. She’s nothing if not stubborn, an excellent trait in many circumstances.

Lots of people have far greater disappointments in music exams, and I accept that I probably sound extremely precious. But this is decision time as far as university applications go (please don’t suggest a gap year – coffers are empty). Apologies for long post (and I even edited it down). I expect it’ll make some people angry and I thought about not posting anything but the first paragraph, but I’ll appreciate feedback, even of the “get real” variety.

Are you ready????

I think I completely understand where you are coming from.

I guess this isn't disappointment at the result as much as confusion as to why your daughter is equally as strong on her second instrument. I think we've been in this situation ourselves. My daughter always tries really hard at Oboe and Recorder which are definately her two strongest instruments. They both followed the same pattern at G7 and she just missed a distinction by a couple of marks. On each occassion there were problems one with the instrument that could have been put right had we known about it and the other she had a virus. The Oboe was very annoying as she got a similar mark at G6 after covering the work in 6 weeks.

For her G5 Jazz Sax she was very relaxed about it, didn't make anywhere near the same effort and scored 140. She's just taken G7 Sax and similarly has worked but not as much as she did for the other two. It will be interesting to see what she gets.

I take exams less seriously now than I did and I've come to realise that they are only one persons opinion and even on the day the result with a different person could be wildly different. I also believe that lots of the result is down to teaching perhaps just a s much as talent. There's nothing to say that your daughter can't make it as a professional musician in some capacity.

nothing against class music teachers in general, but i sometimes really wonder where some of them get their pearls of wisdom from ...

i never discourage my students, but it is my duty to prepare the ones who want to take it a step further in the most honest way possible ...

Just another story to add into the melting pot! - Mine!

Music was definately not my parents career choice for me. As a consequence I didn't seriously think about it until the time came to apply to uni. Initially I considered doing a joint degree in English and Music but was advised against this, and to choose either one subject or the other to specialise in. At this point, the only music exam I had behind me was Grade 1 Piano (102) which I took when I was 7 - not a great record! I was playing two instruments to grade 8 standard, but not a great deal to show for it. I did play in a local orchestra, but not a particularly good one, I could have played in better ones, but my parents wouldn't allow me to go to rehearsals on Sundays and that ruled a lot out! I think someone must have written me a very nice reference as I managed to get auditions at some good universities and music colleges. I went to these auditions - some offered me places, some didn't. I ended up going to do a very good music degree at a very good music college on the back of my auditions. I'd decided to enter for my grade 8s on both instruments so that I had some certificates behind me. Fortunately my auditions came before my grade 8 results, as I only got passes in my two grade 8s. Went on to university and 'found myself' - the opportunites were amazing! To cut a very long story short, when the results finally came out, I'd come second in a year of 50 students!

Moral of the story? If you want something badly enough, then go for it! Yes it's a teachers duty to ensure that a student has realistic ideas about what they can achieve, but if they want it they should have the opportunity to go for it! If it doesn't work out and they end up without a course to go on, there's always clearing or a year out, which can be as much of a positive in the long run!


Oh, and just to add, I've been earning my money through music ever since. No, I'm not a soloist or even a major orchestral player, but I do get paid for performing and accompanying and also get a great deal of pleasure from the students I teach.

I think being realistic whilst maintaining support is often difficult but it's the best way to go. Strangely my eldest was telling me earlier about her people from her school year group. They all excelled at GCSE yet they have found the step up to college and As quite difficult. I guess people develop at different times and some peak earlier than others.

It's so hardto compare people musically as no two will have the same strengths and everyone comes by very different routes. I think that's why I hate competition between students (not festivals).

Emsoboe still wants a career in music and to be honest it's hard, at the moment, to see her doing anything other. It's definately not what I would have chosen for her. I'm hoping that she will have more idea about what is involved by the time as she leaves school and we will have a clearer picture on whether she can cope with it or not.

It's also incredibly difficult to be realistic without being discouraging! When I think back to my own experiences, I very much doubt that any of my teachers thought that my applying for music was a particularly good idea, although it was quite unusual for these particular teachers to have a student at grade 8 level, so I suspect they were probably also loathe to disuade one of their students from going further. My A level tutors were the ones who came closest to telling me it was a bad idea, but as I had two instruments at grade 8 level, I suppose they could see it might just be possible.

In reality, even those with stunning distinctions in all their exams are unlikely to become performers on a national level. I have friends who have amazing CVs who did brilliantly at music college but never quite managed to 'make it', or even the few who did, didn't necessarily stick with it for a long time. Having said that, one of my fellow students has a national reputation as a soprano, although she only returned to performing after trying some other things, as initially the lifestyle didn't suit her.

It's important for all music students to be realistic - yes, aim high, but be prepared to not meet your goal, and have back up plans in place.

Definitely. Work as if you are aiming to be a professional but the chances of making it aren't high at all. Even with a 'rare' instrument like the Oboe there are loads and loads of amazing people who find it hard to get into a orchestra. Maybe not as many as violin though

I think that's mainly because we (musicians) are very often not suitably prepared for life after Uni/Conservatoire. It is simply not enough to be good or even oustanding on your chosen instrument - as you say, you also really have to be happy with a certain lifestyle (working when other people have time off, travelling, auditioning, not very much security, never really knowing what tomorrow has in stock, immense competitive pressure etc. ).

All in all, you have to be a pretty well organised, mentally and physically balanced personality. I proved having the artistic ability and used it up to national level, had engagements all over my homecountry etc. The lifestyle however was something NOBODY had prepared me for, and I have to say that I absolutely detested it, as much as I loved the performing itself.
Good thing is: As a musician, there's not just one way to lead your life, and I can say that I am truly happy these days - much happier than I was as an active performer.

In the end, everything happens for a reason ...

To Listener

I would think the answer is simply what I've always been told by those whom I suppose know - teachers - strings and piano are the toughest instruments and it's much easier to get distinctions on, for example, brass or sax. I think the result your daughter achieved is excellent - well done her!

Re: examiners, my daugher had a halarious examiner for her grade VII cello exam who joked with her throughout (eg asking where she was at university though he knew full well she was 13) and he also made lovely remarks about how much he enjoyed her playing. She came out laughing, enjoyed the exam and did well.

Yep..I agree piano and strings are tougher than brass/wind but distinction at grade 8 is something to be very proud of

My son is 12 (yr7) he passed gr8 cello with merit when he was 11 and was devasted he missed out on distinction. He was well prepared but just not old enough to understand that distinctions are not as easy at grade 8. He couldn't wait to take the exam and six months after gr7 he took gr8. Everyone tried extremely hard to hold him back but he had peaked in his pieces and the only reason for holding him back was purely to protect him from the disappointment of possibly not making distinction.

Looking back...it was the best decision we made to let him go ahead, I have always believed that there is no point a student taking grade 8 so very young unless you pass with an outstanding mark, Unfortunately when it came my own child taking it the decision became out of my control. He has learnt alot from this experience and has been more laid back about his gr8 piano.

His feelings were less apparent this time, he didn't work any harder. He was humbled by the knowledge that grade 8 was tough and distinction was something quite special at this level.

He's always found the music exams very enjoyable and I think his only disappointment after this exam was that he probably wouldn't be sitting another music exam for a very long time or seeing our friendly steward.

People often ask him what he wants to do when he finishes school or why he doesn't go to junior college and most times he will say he doesn't want to study music when he grows up. Even with two grade 8s at 12 - he has decided that music is something he does because he loves it.. and it's not something he wants to be earning money from.

He's just passed gr8 with distinction and is enjoying having the freedom to choose another musical path at the end of the day it really didn't matter to him what he got. We are proud that he feels good and satisfied that he didn't need to prove it this time more than the actual result itself if that makes sense....it's a sign that he's actually matured alot.

Thank you everyone for your encouraging and helpful replies.



That is a good way of looking at it. We might have taken violin as the baseline - and wondered how on earth the bassoon marks had been so high. And in that context the later comments on relative difficulties of grade exams on different instruments are v interesting. So thanks to frumpybabes and rosemariem - bravely said.





That's the dilemma, because Plans A and B are rapidly becoming mutually exclusive - Plan B (until this year Plan A if you get my drift) had been to do biology - of the wellie boots and rain, rather than white coat and microscope, variety; the A-levels are an interesting mix as a result. However, there are no guaranteed jobs in that kind of science and career structures and pay are rubbish and that path could end in frustration too. (I speak from experience but I still suspect it's still not as difficult as music, and she has taken note of just how hard it is to get a performing job of ANY kind.)



Good advice to be taken to heart and remembered



That shows a very mature approach. It was where we were - only rather less thought through - until starting A-level (she didn't do GCSE - no serious thought of music career at that stage) coincided with starting junior conservatoire where conducting and the theory classes grabbed her. She suddenly talked about nothing but music and with huge enthusiasm. It was not however a complete surprise. Although she loves natural history and has done masses of conservation work since she was knee-high to a 1/4 size violin, whenever a space appeared in her crowded timetable she'd fill it with more music. Her current worry about whether Plan B should be Plan A again is tempered by the knowledge that she is not a overwhelmingly interested in large segments of the vast amount of other science and maths you are required to absorb before you can head for Alaska or the DR Congo to study the wildlife and forget most of it because you will never need it.

So at present I think music remains Plan A, but a realistic Plan B is at present elusive and that does bother her because she is realistic about her ability. Of course, all is not lost (except time and money...) if you decide later you need to switch careers completely, but at 17 you want to make the right choice first time and it's SO difficult. You only know much later whether you did the right thing, and maybe not even then. As Robert Frost put it:

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

There are plenty of opportunities for a musical career. If a child has their heart set on being a performer, then the road is very hard indeed, but if they, like me, just want music to be a major part of their life, there are lots of ways to earn a living. There will always be teaching opportunities - both private and classroom. As many of the posts on here bemoan, there is a shortage of really decent, well trained music teachers, both in the primary and secondary sectors. However, all too often this is seen as a second rate option - hence a whole host of disillusioned music professionals teaching in schools. Teaching is probably the most realistic option in music, and if this can be approached with a positive attitude, then life is great!

Just a thought - has she considered pursuing music, but with bassoon as the principal instrument? In my experience (limited to one good, but not exceptional ex-student who has Grade 8 distinctions in both flute and bassoon) music colleges are very positive about bassoon applicants. My ex-student received several offers of scholarships and ended up at Guildhall. If it's music in general, rather than violin that's the passion maybe this is worth considering.

^ great inspiration - I know of two bassoonists who got pursued far beyond what would have been the case had they played more common instruments.

One was a linguist at uni - she had G8 distinction, and was undoubtedly a fine player, but she was requested to play in the uni orchestras despite being, relatively, a lot less qualified than most of the other wind section and probably all the strings. On most instruments, the applicants for auditions outstripped the places by a high proportion, but the fact that she was a good player on a "rare" instrument was enough for them to pursue her about continuing to play when she wasn't all that bothered about playing in the orchestra at all.

The other played recorder and was a fine recorder player, also piano and violin to a lower level. As a recorder player she was an acknowledged talent, but when she took up (and thrived on) bassoon, it was a matter of time only before she was offered a scholarship to a specialist music school. Her passion and her best work was on recorder, but it was bassoon that she took to the highest level, because that was where the opportunities lay.

I think this is something that everyone struggles with - it seems so young to be deciding on the course of the rest of your life, so your daughter is certainly not alone in her worries I think the key here is that she is talented; there is no doubt about that! To have 2 grade 8 distinctions is, frankly, amazing! But obviously a career in music is highly competitive etc, so she is right to have her reservations. If she doesn't try for music colleges, she'll never know whether she could have gone or not - and that would be even worse than being rejected. You can apply for university places AND conservatoire places (I kow someone who got in to do archaeology as well as music!) The other thing to remember is that a distinction is a distinction - does it really, truly matter if one was higher than the other? No-one is ever going to ask what the exact score is! Just celebrate the fact that your daughter has done really well in 2 instruments, and that she is also multi-talented, and could just as easily go and do a science course at uni. Why not try and do a combined course? I know there are definitely physics and music courses around, so that might be something worth looking into - that way, she has the security of a science degree should the music route not work out. I hope that somewhere in all this waffle there is some sound advice!

Just been reading through the thread. In my opinion, if someone really wants to try for a career in music, they should go for it. Yes, have a back up plan, but if you don't go for what you really want to do, you'll be forever wondering if you could have made it, if you'd tried. And while I realise a 17 year old thinks it's the end of the world if they don't pick the right path first time, it's not. Plenty of my friends are doing/have done PhDs/multiple degrees! Some also switched onto completely different courses after their first year.

The thing is, while music is a highly competitive profession, and one that it's very difficult to "make it" in, nowadays, I don't think there's any such thing as a completely stable job. I went into a profession that was considered to be very stable (and lucrative(!)). Okay, so it's a profession which is notorious for its nepotism/the old school tie network, but once you get past that...

Now, after five years at uni and a further (long) period of training, just at the point where I am actually qualifying and should have been starting to make some decent money, I, along with the vast majority of my colleagues at my stage, have come to the end of my training contract and been left without a job. Finding a new job is nigh on impossible because no one wants to employ someone so inexperienced. Every other job seems to need a subject-specific degree, so I'm not qualified for anything other than my own profession, where there are redundancies being made left, right and centre.

So now, I'm thinking of retraining. It will take another two years, but I'll still only be in my mid-twenties. It's not the end of the world.

Sorry for the negativity and bringing doom and gloom on this thread, hope you can see the (sort of) point I'm trying to make!!!

Apologies for not replying to your thoughful comments sooner - I've not been able to open this thread for a few days



This is something I meant to say sooner, in response to a couple of earlier messages about teachers' being less than supportive but people making it anyway, and all credit to them. My daughter (I keep saying that and it reminds me of parents' evenings, I'll call her J from now) J has been blessed by having some of the most committed teachers around, and she wouldn't be where she is without them. She's had the odd bad experience of course but that served to remind us, if we needed it, how lucky she's has been overall. So this is by way of thanks to all the committed teachers out there.



Interesting point and good advice, and it has come up. J went very silent at the suggestion, then said it would mean completely re-aligning her thinking. That said, it may happen. She took up bassoon coming up to 4 years ago and with a lot of encouragement and a brave teacher has come a long way. On the other hand, her violin has been with her for so long it's part of her. I suspect she's felt less pressure (from herself not least) to achieve on bassoon - she's far from being the best player in her school, e.g. On the other hand, she often - but not always - turns heads with her violin playing. Tis going to be interesting.



Masses of sound advice, and thanks for encouragement (even the short passage of time makes me realise we're being just a wee bit precious about that mark - I put my hand up as I agreed with her disappointment instead of saying all the sensible things that have been said in this thread. And yes, she's lucky to blessed with many talents, and to have had the oportunities to develop them - more thanks due to teachers and all sorts of other people she has interacted with over the years). You are spot on - if she doesn't try she will never know.
She's looked at combined courses (having got v excited on hearing that Imperial offered a joint science course with the RCM - sadly that was only for physicists). I can see why physics and music go together, biology and music perhaps less so but there is the odd course... maybe aimed at budding neuroscientists rather than field biologist (although I think I read that Sir David Attenborough takes a vast amount of music to listen to on his trips) but she is looking.
With regard to conservatoires/universities, she's currently thinking really of the university route - apart from anything else feeling she's left it rather late to work up audition repertoire, and keenly aware that others who committed to the conservatoire route earlier will have been preparing for months or more. (What did the budding musician/archaeologist decide?). It isn't that long until the application deadlines, but things tend to go to the wire with her, and I am learning that that's OK (my elder one always had things sorted ahead of time so it's good for me to learn a different approach).



Realism, not doom and gloom - and anyway I'd call your thinking positive. I absolutely agree about no job being secure. The real danger is of young people being persuaded to do a degree and/or train for something thinking there is a definite job at the end - and then find themselves where you are. And if they've done that instead of taking a known risk, they have just cause for regret. The world isn't predictable. Although I might put money on careers in both music and field biology/ecology remaining precarious (but for the latter, with climate change, invasive species, etc., who knows? They may just become the most sought-after people on the planet).
My elder one (the organized one referred to above) is in your position - graduated this June, good degree, solid subject, good year-out and vacation experience... no job. She's also thinking outside the box now, and is seeing it as a chance to go down new avenues. Thank heavens for optimism. May you both get where you want. You're right - mid twenties is so young, and you have so much to offer.

Aww! Well I'm glad you're feeling more positive The person I knew went on to do archaeology - his reasoning being that you can have music as a hobby, but it's much more difficult to dig up ancient ruins without any qualifications! (I think there was probably more to it than that...) There's one thing I would like to add - if you don't mind - it's really important that your daughter does what she thinks she'll be happy doing, and not what other people could see her doing, or maybe even expect her to do! To draw on an anecdote - I go to an absolutely mental independent girls' school, which has a pass rate of A-C at A-level of something like 99.5%, and as you can probably imagine, it's very intense and extremely pressurised. So, a few years ago there was a girl who was brilliant at music (she had 2 grade 8s and a grade 7), but she was also extremely academic, and ended up being almost forced into doing medicine by the school(for their league tables I guess) and also her parents . She got accepted, but after the first year couldn't take it any longer - and re-applied to study music at university (I don't know which one though, sorry!) The result - a really happy and fulfilled music teacher in a secondary school! The expectation for her was that she'd do the most "recognised" course (absolute rubbish and snobbery in my opinion - you can guess that my views are often at odds with my school here!), rather than doing the thing she truly wanted to. So I hope your daughter will feel that she'll be happy doing her course; I think it;s the most important factor.

I will encourage my daughter to take music at university rather than a conservatoire or music school as it's just such a great, good solid subject to have a degree in, whatever you do afterwards. She doesn't particularly want a career in music but would hopefully get into a good univerisity for music which is the subject she shines in, rather than go for any other subject where she is average and risks a less good university place.

I think this conversation has been very positive and we all think your daughter brilliant for doing so well. If she wants to pursue a music career then she should - someone has to suceed, and if she is determined, and it makes her happy, why not her?

A final word on the 'disappointing' distinction. Firstly, when we looked at Wells Cathedral School they were very dismissive of the exams - they just wanted to hear my daughter play and couldn't care less what grade and what marks she'd got. Secondly, a teacher I know was convinced their star pupil would get a distinction at grade 8 cello and she barely managed a pass. Next term she got her distinction. So this is very subjective.

Over and out from me now, and good luck to your daughter.

[quote name='FluteDiva!!' date='Aug 10 2009, 07:04 PM' post='862096']
it's much more difficult to dig up ancient ruins without any qualifications!
[/quote]

My family don't have any qualifications but manage to get me up at unearthly hours most days (not tomorrow - hurrah)

[quote name='FluteDiva!!' date='Aug 10 2009, 07:04 PM' post='862096']
To draw on an anecdote...[/quote]

Awful story, what would have happened if she hadn't had the courage to change? But not all 'pushy' school are like that - both my girls went to 'pushy schools, one state, one indie; both schools told parents to leave their daughters alone to make up their own minds about exams, careers - you don't know best and it's their lives was the general message: Let your kids make a mistake, but let it be their mistake and not yours.

quote name='FluteDiva!!' date='Aug 10 2009, 07:04 PM' post='862096']
So I hope your daughter will feel that she'll be happy doing her course; I think it;s the most important factor.
[/quote]

Spot on, and all the best to you

[quote name='rosemariem' date='Aug 11 2009, 12:12 PM' post='862269']
I think this conversation has been very positive and we all think your daughter brilliant for doing so well. If she wants to pursue a music career then she should - someone has to suceed, and if she is determined, and it makes her happy, why not her?

Over and out from me now, and good luck to your daughter.
[/quote]

Lovely round-up, and as you say it's been a very useful thread - especially for us of course, so thanks again to everyone for both encouragement and words of sage advice.

The instruments are positively smoking from the heat of practice.