Whilst I was looking into something else, I came across a tutor which says that you may turn your foot outwards at the extremes of the pedalboard - so if the right foot was playing low notes, you could use the outside of your foot as opposed to the inside. As far as I know, I don't think this is mentioned in any mainstream tutors.

My question is, has anyone been taught to do this? Does anyone do it!? And at what point would you switch from inside of foot to outside (I realise it will vary, but just trying to get an idea).

Thanks

I think you've got us stumped here, Guero.

I can't say I've ever been taught specifically one way or the other but it's probably one of those common sense things; if by doing it the way it suggests in this book you feel you are going to fall off the stool then do it the other way. Generally, do what is comfortable and practical.

If nothing else, this may provoke a REAL expert to reply and point out what rubbish I am talking and to state that the correct way is to................

It is of course right and proper to pay attention to our teachers - to let them explain the rules - and to follow those rules when working the pedal board.
It might however be useful to know that there is a sub-set to those rules, and it may assist you to see them set out.
subset rule (i) Maintain note accuracy and rhythm.

subset rule (ii) Refer to rule (i)

subset rule (iii) If possessed of short lower leg and long upper leg, shift your bottom to the back edge of the bench, invest in 1.5 inch heels and follow rule (i)

Subset rule (iv) If possessed of long lower leg and short upper leg, take care not to jam your right knee between middle F# and the underside of the key shelf, then follow rule (i)

Subset rule (v) If, as on one of 'my' organs you have a straight - flat pedal board, and that it is offset to the left about one and a half keys, then any way you can reach bottom C ,short of poking at it with a stick, is the right way, as long as rule (i) is obeyed.

[If you play the pedals without shoes on, at some stage you will crack the little toe of your left foot on bottom Eb. This is absolutely guaranteed. This will then affect your ability to obey rule (i), resulting in you being taken out to the church yard and ritually flogged.]

subset rule (vi) If your Sunday morning service follows on from a particularly heavy Saturday night, settle for a nice gentle, wooly, slow-speaking Bourdon. This should obscure the fact that your feet have a mind of their own and that in certain circumstances, a 13/5 rhythm could be almost acceptable in the key of Kb.

As Douglas Bader quoted from somewhere or other,"rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise wo/men". Just so long as you obey subset rule (i)

Good luck

Chris Baker - Durham UK

Rules can always be broken where the need arises, but otherwise they are worth following.

I am the world's biggest hypocrite when it comes to technique because, being almost wholly self-taught in my early years I developed all sorts of bad habits and later, when I had teachers, they never really bothered to correct them because I was getting the right results. But HOW I wish I had been taught the rule about playing with the inside of the foot (effectively the ball of the big toe). It makes such good sense and is clearly the best way of ensuring Chris's subset rule (i)!

However, I would say that if you have to have a foot in the wrong half of the pedalboard it is perfectly logical to play with the outside of that foot.

At the end of the day technique is merely the best way of ensuring that you consistently play the right notes in the most efficient and secure manner. The critical thing is that, whatever techniques you decide are right for you, you stick to them consistently. Inconsistency = unreliability.

Not sure how you could do anything else!

[If you play the pedals without shoes on, at some stage you will crack the little toe of your left foot on bottom Eb. This is absolutely guaranteed. This will then affect your ability to obey rule (i), resulting in you being taken out to the church yard and ritually flogged.]

I can confirm this. I turned up last Sunday expecting to rehearse William Byrd and instead found myself playing for the earlier (non-choral) service. I had no organ shoes with me and in fact was wearing crepe-soled 'clog' style shoes. ( ) After rushing up thirty-odd stairs and not quite arriving in time for 'the first hymn is ...' I felt bound to go with the flow, found the bassline was somehow playing in a different key from the manuals and almost gave up on the pedals entirely.

When I had chance I kicked off the offending shoes and proceeded to play barefoot - something I've not done before. At least there were no splinters.

In my case the former was the greater crime and deserved more than a flogging.

from Maggie-
"I had no organ shoes with me and in fact was wearing crepe-soled 'clog' style shoes. ( ) "

I am entertaining a fascination with this that borders on the unhealthy. Ermmm..... the uppers of these shoes you mention - they wouldn't be formed from blue suede by any chance ? The location of your endeavours - a 'chapel' perhaps? In a valley even??



Chris Baker - Durham UK

Nope. Been playing in socks for 30 years and never done this.

sorry to disappoint ... the uppers are brown leather, with (off-) white stitching.

The location was an Anglo-catholic church in south London with a Fr Willis that deserves (and usually gets!) better.

there's always one, innit? .... but then, were it not for the exceptions, how else would we test the rule ?

Best etc.,
Chris Baker - Durham UK

Well, if you are tempted to write "this is absolutely guaranteed" then you always leave yourself open to being proved incorrect...

there's always one, innit? .... but then, were it not for the exceptions, how else would we test the rule ?

"Well, if you are tempted to write "this is absolutely guaranteed" then you always leave yourself open to being proved incorrect..."

You are absolutely right. It was stupid of me to think that my piece of nonsense humour would be seen as such. Would you apologise to the list for me, as I have to go now and slit my throat in the garden. (There's a syntaxial inelegance there if you would like to worry at it a bit


Chris Baker - Durham UK

It's normally better for accuracy and comfort to use the inside part of your foot.

However, on the odd occasion when you have to reach such a long way that this becomes uncomfortable and impractical, then there's no problem with using the outside edge if that gives a better control and comfort. Always go for what gives the most accurate result combined with the most comfort - it's really a no-brainer.

...

Wanna share my popcorn, HC?

Thanks for the responses. So it would seem that it isn't a well-known or common solution, but not objectionable.

There's quite alot of mention of doing what feels comfortable and practical, but things that will serve you well in the future don't always feel that comfortable or practical to begin with. If that was a basic tenet of playing instruments, no-one would persevere long enough to play anything. And things that feel comfortable and practical initially may be less successful as you advance.

Regarding Chris' first post - I didn't think it was that pedantic a question to merit such a 'witty' response. (How do I do a <rolls eyes> ?)

Most of the standard organ tutors have diagrams of how to deal with the extremes of the pedal board.
Dupre's tutor, for example, shows this in the footing of the harmonic minor scales in octaves, as well as in other places.

It is worth looking on You Tube. There are some fine shots of players' pedalling to be seen. Diane Bish springs to mind. She is undoubtedly one of the most technically accomplished and musical players of our time. The clips on You Tube show a lot of her pedalling.

There is no single method that will always work on pedalling - much less so than fingering. The variations in pedal boards as well as in players' anatomy demand different approaches.

As with fingering though, once you have the correct footing, stick to it. So much time is wasted by students who fail to rehearse correctly. I do wonder whether teachers instruct pupils on this nowadays as much as was done in the past.

Barry Williams

I wonder if we're going to end up debating the merits - or otherwise! - of the 'Bish stomp'?!

Yes, it does look a bit like that from certain angles!

Barry Williams

I was taught to do this in my first year at the organ and it is taught in C.Henry Phillips' 'Modern Organ Pedalling' , the pedalling tutor which my first organ teacher put me on to. This excellent treatise with diagrams, exercises and studies and footing chart for scales in all keys was published in the early 1950s but now, sadly, is generally out of print. A few years ago it was still available by individual order as a special print-off, and probably still is. The publisher was Oxford University Press.
Phillips' teaching is that below the middle of the pedalboard the left foot plays with the inside of the sole and heel and above the middle of the pedalboard with the outside. Similarly, the right foot playing above the middle of the pedalborad uses the inside of the sole and heel and below the middle the outside. However, without special teaching, I think this footing practice will develop itself because in order to play with the right foot 'insides' below the middle and the left 'insides' above the middle you need to be something of a contortionist.