Hi all,

I've been playing the cello for about 5 years, and am at about a grade 7 level. However recently I have found that I really struggle to play my fourth finger in tune on any string. I have never had the problem of this untill about 4 months ago, and ever since I really struggle to get my 4th finger in tune.
I can't ask my teacher about it as at the moment I don't have a teacher and won't until september as I have finished school now and won't get a new teacher until university.

Has anyone got any ideas why this has happened, or any ideas as to how to fix it?

Thanks in advance.

Oh dear, that is an 'odd' one!
has it happened 'just like that'? not coinciding with anything else??? could you have developed some tension in your hand ligaments that has made your fingers more 'stiff' hence not being able to stretch 4th fingers not so easily anymore? have you got new strings on the cello? or anything else new?
this is puzzling me now

are you properly supporting your little finger with your arm weight? and where is your thumb? - ie is your finger having to stretch to reach the note and your thumb is not moving with your hand? lol if you understand what i'm trying to say, didn't really explain that well

There is nothing that it coincides with, the only problem i've had with my hand is a problem with my thumb, but that happened after this problem starting. I've had no new strings since, about, november. Everything is exactly the same.

My thumb is in line with my in middle finger where it has always been. I'm finding to get say a G in tune on the D string, im having to slightly shift down the fingerboard, but this is risky, so I am just completely changing position and putting my first on it. But it does become hard work, and in fast pieces it really isn't always practical.

Well, I suppose the good thing here is that you're aware that your intonation has gone awry, although you don't say if you're falling consistently sharp, consistently flat or being inconsistent. It may only be down to a little physical 'quirk' that's developed recently. I'd suggest a Summer of slow, deliberate scales (really using your ears) until body and inner ear start to co-operate again. I'm sure they will.

Ooops, I didn't think to put something useful like that in. But it's always flat, like they way my hand is places on the fingerboard has just changed, or my hand has just got smaller. But it is really annoying to say the least.

This may appear a long shot, but are you sure it's not your ear that's become a lot more discerning about your intonation? This is particularly common amongst bowed string players at about your level.

Try deconstructing the issue and analysing it bit by bit:

Is your hand shape exactly the way it's always been? Are you sure, check this thoroughly?

How different is your hand feeling (if any) when you put the fourth finger down? - ie. if the note is not being reached there must be a sensation of that feeling somewhere in the hand itself.

Did the problem suddenly appear, or has it appeared to gradually get worse? - ie. you are noticing it more now than before?

Have you become so fixated by it, you think the problem is worse than it is and attempts at correction are overcompensating or actually making it worse?

Is it happening ALL of the time - regardless of position or string?


It could simply be a passing phase, but fault finding with anything, be it a mechanical or human issue, is about looking at the small details and eliminating the improbable from the possible.

I don't know if it is my ear, but my ear has improved alot over the past couple of months, last year I would have struggled to pick out one note by ear, but know I can almost pick out complete tunes and harmonise them pretty well. So it could be my ear has improved and I am only just noticing.

I would try and check how I am holding my hand, I don't think it's any different, but I have no way of definatively checking it. Which does some-what complicate matters.

If i wan't to reach the note with my fourth finger, it seems I have to really stretch my fourth finger to get it, and then it feels weak and unable to push the string down.

It has got gradually worse i believe, but as I stopped using my fourth finger due to the intonation problem, I really couldn't tell, instead of fixing the problem earlier as I should have I avoided coming into contact with the problem by shifting positions.

It happens, only in first position but across all the strings.

Thanks for your ideas.

I have this exact same problem on the double bass in half and first positions, but the difference with me is that I ALWAYS had this problem and I am NEW to the bass, been learning only 2 and a half months and only playing grade 4 tunes at present and scales etc.
My 4th finger in half and first position falls quite flat, probably by half a centimetre to a centimetre even when I stretch as fully as I can, I really cannot see how I will ever make it reach the right spot without having to shift slightly!

I could understand that with the double bass, it's just so new and random and quite annoying, while playing I did notice that my hand can sometimes feel quite tense when I am about to use my fourth finger, could this have something to do with it? If it does, does anyone have any ideas of how to relieve it?

Is your thumb forward enough underneath the fingerboard? I'm sure you've tried that though, it's probably really obvious....sorry

As others have suggested, I find going right back to basics - scales, arpeggios, technical exercises etc - can really make me analyse what is happening. I also record myself sometimes and listen to see what difference apparently tiny adjustments can make to tone and resonance. I make notes to capture what is helping and what is hindering me if I am in a bind on something. Generally, I find that my teacher is the best asset I have though as she can almost always spot what is going on - is there anyone who could watch you and give you feedback?

Thanks for your replies, I am still falling flat when I try to play, and no there isn't anyone who I can ask to check, as I have finished my orchestrra now due to the holidays so I am really alone with it.

how about doing a youtube clip or two of you playing scales/exercises and post it here so we can 'look/analyze' and provide feedback?

That is an idea, I shall try and record that.

Good thinking Jo!

It may be obvious but a couple of things that spring to mind for me:

Is your arm rotating backwards - ie your shoulder blade moving in towards your spine (if that makes sense). I've been told to do that for 1/2 pos. and so it makes intonation flatter. Could prove a problem in 1st pos. if it's happening.
( There ^^ I assumed you are talking only 1st pos. that it happens. does it always happen or is it specific to different positions?)

Also, is your 3rd finger close enough to 4th in order to support it? You might need a bigger gap between 2nd and 3rd, especially when using 4th.

They're only suggestions but i don't really know why either of them would have just "appeared" in the last few months, especially as you're at a pretty high standard...puzzling...

Just a thought............Have you grown recently? You might have a little bit of general re-aligning to do.

No, I don't think i've grown recently.

You may not have grown in height but hands and arms might have grown.

They may have, my span on the piano is slightly larger, but wouldn't that make me end up sharp instead of flat?

Thanks all for your replies, I seem to have solved this problem now, it seemed to be my thumb sliding slightly from where it should be, and my the angle of my dropping forward causing my fingers to slightly point upwards making me go flat.

good news!

but can you still post a youtube clip of you playing, I'd love to hear

I'll have to make one, but it would be wise for some people to check my playing its been a while since i've had a lesson