Hi all
I realise the answer to this will likely be some variation of; "how long is a piece of string", but here goes anyway....

I started learning violin in March and I really enjoy it. As an adult learner, its really nice to have a hobby which is both challenging and fun at the same time...

According to my teacher I'm somewhere between Gr 1 & 2 right now. I'm going to do Gr 2 in November. I'm not so fussed about doing exams, because I got enough of that when I played piano as a child. However, I like being "forced" to do things I'd otherwise avoid like the plague... scales comes to mind

Anyway, I'm looking at an upgraded violin; my current one is a £40 kit which has done a good job introducing me to the violin but its time to upgrade. The one I'm looking at is not expensive or flash or fancy, but its better than my current one and the guy (who is trustworthy in my opinion) tells me it will take me to about Grade 5 level.

So here's my question; how long on average would it take a dedicated, fairly musical (I hope!!) adult to get to Grade 5 level considering I'm about Gr 1.5 at the moment. Bottom line is I dont want to have to upgrade again too soon...

Now you see why I compared my question to the "piece of string" question.....
thanks all!

Hi there,

I've reckoned on about a grade a year.

I think that it's fine to upgrade even when you're just on the lower grades because a better instrument will probably give a better sound and you'll get more satisfaction from your playing. It's hard to get a decent sound out of a poor instrument I think.

I'm going onto grade 2 at the moment and I'm already thinking of upgrading because my original viola was just to get me started. I'm enjoying it so much that I want a nicer instrument already.

Hi Echelon
thanks for the response. OK, a year a grade is a good gauge, thanks!.

I know.... its so HARD when you NEED (as I tell hubby) a new instrument. I really want need a new one now......

Happy Viola Shopping!

You do NEED one hun!

Musicians like a nice instrument just like people like nice cars. There's nothing wrong with that

Musicians like a nice instrument just like people like nice cars. There's nothing wrong with that
[/quote]

Ooooh I can use this as part of my argument with car-mad hubby!!!

And also, instruments last a lot longer than cars, don't go rusty and don't need taxing every year

Considering you are a solid grade 1 in 5 months, and as I suspect you could already read music and have a reasonable sense of rhythm before you embarked on learning the violin, I'd say a couple of years and you will probably be almost there. I know a grade a year is generally used, but this seems to follow a regular progression for an average student of no previous musical background who has to contend with learning to read music from scratch making it 12-18 months before they can think of looking at grade 1. It also obviously depends upon the practice you put in greatly. (20-30 mins a day is a lot better than say 2 x 1hr sessions a week).

A better violin can only aid your progression, and a sensible upgrade will do wonders for your playing I'm sure, although no more than £200/250 should need to be spent to get you to grade 5, of which you may get back approx half when selling on or trading in at best. Good Luck and Happy Playing

What kind of budget do you have? I'd say if you've even only got a couple of hundred, you can get something WAY nicer than a £40 job!

On the subject of how long it takes to progress, what Tracy said is totally true - it depends so much on your musical background, the amount and regularity of prac as well as general aptitude and also your teacher. Some just don't teach technique well enough and have their students moving on quite quickly when they can't even bow properly! My old one was like that and the first thing I had to go through with my recent one was bow hold and simple upper and lower half bowing! The old one totally ignored this stuff and focused almost exclusively on note finding! So, that's something else to bear in mind - quality of teaching. A poor teacher can make you think you're more advanced than you really are or even hold you back when you're ready for higher levels.

Echelon, what viola do you have? What are you eyeing up at the mo?? (Don't tell me you haven't got your eye on something as I might not be able to convince myself to believe it!!!)

I have plenty of musical background, but not on strings and strings are much harder than other instruments, so I think that a grade a year is realistic unless you have a lot of time to practise and most adults have other stuff to fit into their lives.

Elizabeth, I have a Westbury Plus. It's a nice enough instrument, but I didn't choose it for myself, I just had to take what was available from my luthier at the time. I'm looking at getting a Gliga Gama 1 perhaps if I do some extra shifts at work My eldest son has a Gliga and they're nice instruments.

Thanks for all the great advice. In short my budget is small and by happy coincidence, the violin I'm looking at falls into the aforementioned £200-£250 category... whew!!.

I did Grade 6 piano many many moons ago so I had a head start in that I already knew how to read music. But then as you say, there are different techniques to learn on a stringed instrument, and I expect that as I get higher up, my earlier advantage will disappear....

I'm just thinking how long its taking me to master the ***bleeping*** 4th finger (insert expletive here ). I dread to think how long it will take me to master the more difficult stuff......

thanks all!

Molly, it took me 2 years to get to grade 4 standard, and in those 2 years the last 6 months had hardly any practice at all (a day a fortnight if that!), I passed grade one with distinction 5 months after picking up the violin for the first time.

From what you wrote about yourself I'd say you'll be tackling grade 5 two years from now with regular practice, but set yourself a slightly higher goal so that if you get things slowing you down in the way and you don't quite get there you won't be disappointed.

What I've realised recently is HOW HARD it is to learn the violin 'properly'. After 2 and a half years of learning I still cannot say I could entertain my friends with a couple of tunes, even if they 'don't understand much about music' :lol:

Wow Jo - that is phenomenal progress. You must be very talented as well as conscientious. I am very impressed.

Yup, Jo is conscientious - she was talking about practising violin for 40+ minutes per day when she first started!!

My own advice would be to take as long as it takes and enjoy it. Sometimes pushing ourselves too hard to get to a certain level of playing difficulty means that we miss a lot of the scenery along the journey, if you see what I mean and it can also mean there's a danger that we learn really only enough to pass exams. I know folk who 'can' play the piano to grade 5+ level, but all they really know is their exam material. Now that, to me, isn't really being able to play. I could probably manage to get a decent mark on grade one viola after about 2.5 years' playing, 2 teachers and my own recurring health problems, but I long since decided to drop the pressure and just learn to play for enjoyment. I may take exams and then again, I may very well not (I don't mind scales etc, so I don't need to be made to play them). All I want to do it learn to play, no matter how long it takes and what not.

So, in short, relax, enjoy!

PS, if you find 4th finger on violin hard, don't take up viola!!!

WOW Elizabeth, you remember 'THAT'??? (how long I used to practice, even I forgot that) I'm impressed!

it sounds like I 'may' be a good violist then as I never had a problem with my 'pinky' and my new teacher in my last lesson commented on how good my 4th finger is as I was doing some trill with 3rd and 4th

but no, I am NOT taking up a 3rd instrument

I'm the same (the 4th finger thing - not being a good violinist!) but then I have really long fingers so maybe that helps?

I have very small fingers, thus my constant 4th finger battle. It was the same when I was learning piano.. I definitely didnt have those long, nimble "piano fingers"

Oh I agree Elizabeth about enjoying the ride. Totally agree. All I ever did as a kid was work towards exams and I never enjoyed it. Mind you, having your knuckles rapped against the piano when you made a mistake wasnt conducive to enjoying it !!

Now I'm playing lots of different things which arent remotely related to exams and I'm loving it. Been playing the "Godfather" theme today, followed by "If I Were a Rich Man", followed by a "Fur Elise", followed by an Irish polka. I hasten to add, these are much simplified versions of said pieces, but still....Its a whirlwind tour of world music in this house

You said it!

I agree with others that a grade a year is a doable goal for most, but you may find you progress faster with your musical background (or may progress slower if you hit a problem in some area or another).

I'm not a very helpful example as I started as a child, but I know I got to a good G3/almost G4 (with my teacher having me dabble in G5 pieces a couple of times) by about 11 after starting at 7 - my progress after that was patchy at best, but hey ho! Considering I was learning to read music from scratch as well, and even taking into account that children generally seem to have an easier time adjusting to the posture etc, I guess that agrees with the general consensus.

A half decent violin will certainly help - I should think that you will really feel the improvement from a £40 beginner set up!


Sounds great! Keep having fun... that is the main thing, I reckon!

Oh and by the way - I have (to look at, anyway) long, nimble "piano" fingers, and after three years of lessons as a kid and a couple as an adult, I could just barely tackle a grade 5 piece badly. I reckon you will find your fingers serves you fine for the fiddle as well