I sing in a church choir twice a week at the moment. There are only 6 of us, 3 sops and 3 altos. Along with one of the other sops, I sing the descants in the mass setting, and we also prepare an anthem 3/4 Sundays a month. I know it's good practice, but...

I really am getting nothing out of it at the moment. Other than the descants and anthem, I don't find any of it particularly stimulating, and find going to rehearsals a bit of an effort (rushing home from work, catching a bus, waiting in the rain etc...).

The only thing is, other than the solo practice I get, and singing lessons which haven't actually started quite yet, it is the only singing I do. Do you think it would be ok for me to take, say, a month/6 weeks out from being in the choir, or might it be detrimental to my voice/technique?

Thanks in advance!

I have a very personal opinion about singing in choirs if you want to train as a soloist, meaning: It is usually not detrimental if you DON'T sing in a choir, while singing in one sometimes CAN be (not always of course, it always depends on your voice, how it gets treated in the choir, if you sing in the right place, if you have to artificially keep your voice light etc.). This however only applies to amateur choirs, not professional choirs with fully trained singers ...

So I really woudn't be too worried if I were you - if you have the feeling you are getting nothing out of it really, then you should listen to this gut-feeling anyway.

Thanks, Mezzo. That was basically what I thought, and I don't know how much harm the choir is actually doing me - there is one other soprano in particular who is very over-powering, and I find my voice does 'gel' too well with hers, so I try to keep it down if I can. Probably not the best thing to be doing.

I'd agree with Mezzo. Taking a break won't hurt your voice, and will be better for your spirits than singing in an unsatisfactory way with choir.

I think you've answered your own question already: "I really am getting nothing out of it at the moment".
There is no point in using time and energy on something you are getting no enjoyment from. Your voice won't suffer from a month off - and you don't want to lose the joy of singing.
Look forward to your lessons and think of it as "starting fresh"

Whilst I'd agree with all that has been said above, I'm sure your choirmaster and fellow choristers would be sorry to see you go. Is there anything you could do to improve your enjoyment of the choir? Is the present repertoire stale? Could you suggest new items and perhaps make it fun again?

Oh dear. Don't encourage me!

Right...

1. The repertoire is awful. Hymns Old and New is the basis, and whoever choses the hymns is having a laugh.

2. We sing the same anthem for weeks on end, and the other choristers refuse to sing one during the service if they haven't practised it for about 7 years beforehand. Don't even mention sight-reading to them.

3. I have tried suggesting new things... The other choristers will not budge from their set ways. Ever.

4. Again, the other choir members are so stubborn! Last week our organist was in hospital, so I offered to accompany a rehearsal, if only to go over the psalm. "Oh no! We can't have that... it's not what we do and you might do it wrong!"

5. This morning, the choirmaster suggested we used an anthem we've done countless times before, due to a lack of a rehearsal earlier in the week. They were up in arms because they hadn't practised it. It's just so frustrating!!

Sorry, this has turned into such a rant but I love singing, and I love going to church, but this particular choir is putting me off both, and I don't see them being willing to make any changes any time soon. They've already told me that they will be sad to see me go when I leave for uni, but they seriously aren't doing anything which makes me want to stay.

(Also, they still owe me a cake from when the bribed me to join them back in January.)

</rant>

That sounds dire.

There's an obvious answer. Leave them to it, and go and sing with a better choir with more vision if you'd still like to do some choral singing. Simples!

Floss, you've answered your own question well and truly

Singing in a stressful environment is not going to improve your voice, so taking a break from this choir can only be a good idea for you now.

I agree, but don't you think that - if Miss Ross enjoys choral singing - it would be a better idea for her to join a better choir where she'll get more satisfaction and pleasure?

Well, I'm going to uni in 8 weeks... would anyone want me for that long? Also, I'm being confirmed in this particular church in 4 weeks time.

It does sound dire but if you are being confirmed there would this be a good time to suggest that the choir learns and performs one or two of your own favourites for that service? It would mean that you would have some new rep to work at and then you could leave on a good note. Who knows, they might even enjoy the experience too.

Hmm... sounds like a good idea, Petra. Only thing is, once a month the organist has a Sunday off and is replaced by a music group (trumpet, clari, viola, sax, guitar and violin/flute when I can bear it...), and newer music is used. The Powers That Be have decided to integrate the music group and the choir for that service, and have chosen the hymns already. They kindly swapped one item for a hymn of my choice. Politics.

Ahem, yes politics!
Our church now has two choirs thanks to politics! The Gentlemen of the Choir have been singing there man and boy (one is now in his 80th year) and never, never have female voices ever been allowed to join.

Then along comes the new vicar (a chap in his 50's) who appoints a Director of Music (a fine professional soprano - now retired) who formed a SATB choir inviting the Gentlemen to join our ranks to buffer up the tenors and basses. To say the reaction was one of shock, horror is an understatement. It has now got to the stage when the Gentlemen sing two services a month and we (the SATB) sing all other services but the trouble is that I am now the only bass and the tenors have one decent voice and two enthusiastic but less able men but still the Gentlemen will not join us and not even attend the church services whenenver we sing.

It is all very sad and disappointing. One of the Gentlemen did comment to me that I should join them then the SATB will be in real trouble.....hardly in the spirit.

Unfortuneatly it has only reinforced my long held view that some choirs can be more effort than they are worth.

Yup, unfortunately, occasionally they can.


I think Noodle's idea very sensible. I'm sure you'll find a much more enjoyable choir to join when you to to uni. Good luck!

I think you'll just have to put up with it but at least its only for a few more weeks.

I presume you're waiting for A-level results so good luck.

Where do you hope to be going and what are you going to do?

It sounds as if you only have about 8 rehearsals/services left with them before you go to uni and it may be nicer/easier for you to make a graceful exit and leave them remembering you positively instead of spending your time struggling to change things and getting irritated with them. Going away to uni will give you a natural reason to leave and it may be that one of the most stick-in-the-mud choir members turns out to be related to someone you end up wanting to sing for! (I've found on many occasions that the choral music world is very small indeed...)
Skipping a couple of rehearsals because of "summer holidays" would also reduce the number of times that you have to work with these people and there may also be things that you can work on for yourself in the rehearsals to keep your interest, like how well you can blend (can you match vowel sounds with your neighbour so accurately that it sounds like your voice just jumped three feet to one side and you're singing out of their mouth? ) whether you know the music so well you can sing it from memory (have your music on the wrong page to see how many times you have to glance across at your neighbour's copy/flick back to look at the music), are the altos/tenors/basses etc actually singing exactly the right notes, if not then who's wrong and what are they singing? (also applies to dynamics, pronunciation in foreign languages etc etc) These are all things that I use when I know that I know the music really well, a lot of the people around me don't and are still learning it, so that I don't get totally bored!
I would definitely go for making a graceful exit, whilst looking forward to joining a better choir at uni.

I'd hang in there for the few remaining weeks to end on a good note, but I'd have a couple or even 3 previous appointments/unavoidable engagements/buses being late for the rehearsals, just to make it bearable.

Thanks for the latest replies... I'll just stick with it but dodge some rehearsals, I think. I missed the rehearsal and the service this week, so...

Hello. I'm actually just coming to the end of my gap year. I'm 90% definitely going to York to do Education Studies.

It's complicated....

*deep breath*


York asked me to get a reference sent to them from my adviser of studies at Aberdeen. He was most obliging and I believe he has done so, but I haven't yet plucked up the courage to Email the admissions people at York to get them to confirm it. He was very lovely when I left Aberdeen, and when I spoke to him about getting a reference, so the hope is that it will be fine.

If not ... then Glasgow it is.

Why do you need courage to undertake such an administrative matter? Why not just call your ex-Tutor and see if he had sent it?

I'd just been putting it off. I did it last night anyway.

I'd need courage for that too. Yay for e-mails

Hope they get back to you soon Miss Ross

This morning at church the choir sang an athem with two soprano solos in it.

The first was sung by one of the altos.

The second was sung by the only nice soprano (who does have a lovely voice, it has to be said).

Afterwards, one of my friends from the congregation came up to me and said, "Did you sing that second solo?" I told her that it wasn't me to which she said, "Yes, I thought it sounded a bit old."

Anyway, one of the priests was standing nearby and commented that she had been hoping that the choir director would have asked me to sing it. Goodness knows why... she must think I'm ok. I told her that I'd love to sing a solo before I left, but she then went into detail about how if someone who isn't the 'normal person to sing the solo' is encouraged to sing a solo, the rest of the choir will threaten to go on strike. This actually happened once.

Bloomin' 'eck.

Your choir seems to have some strange people in it! Why on earth would a choir member "go on strike" because someone was asked to sing a solo?

I've sung in a fair few choirs in my time, but I've never heard of that before. There have been instances where someone who had been asked to sing a solo in the past felt slighted when someone else was asked instead, and took his/her bat home, but usually the choir will accept what the choir director decides.

The choir which poor Miss Ross is involved with seems to be more of a social club than a choir, with their own rules and pecking order. You're well out of it!

Yes I agree - and I'm sure you'll find some more suitable choirs down here. Musicguru runs some choirs as you probably know and there are dozens more to choose from. And if you don't like one, it won't be as noticeable if you drop out because obviously the communities are much bigger down here.



eee bah gum, we'll mek a Yorkshire lass o' yer yet

*sticks Dvorak's "New World" Symphony on in the background*

Mmmm Hovis.

It happens, I'm afraid. If not an out-and-out strike, a lot of sniping and ostracism and behind-the-scenes politics

Have to say I agree with the others - you're probably well off out of it

Ah, the joys of politics within choirs and amdram productions! I remember seeing the most unsuitable leading lady in a local production of South Pacific not so long ago because it was "her turn"! Good luck in your next choir Miss Ross. You will be snapped up by someone because you are one of the singers who can sight read well too. Keep us informed.

Yes, indeed, the 'joys' of choir politics...

You're best off out of it, Fiona. All the best in finding a new choir with whom you'll enjoy singing.

It would be nice if that did happen, Petra!

Thanks everyone... Going to a rehearsal tonight. The 'music group' are collaborating with the choir for a confirmation service this Sunday and are meeting together tonight. There may be blood shed. (Especially as I am in both groups and the choir have far from kept their disapproval a secret.)