Strewth Flossie, I have only been having lessons for less than two years . So the short answer is - No. I would be hard put to recognise the difference between happy and cheerful, reflective and pensive, cold and frozen let alone play it. It would be nice to think that one day I could identify what was required from the playing of the music and put it into practice, but there is no way I can audition the two flutes with this in mind, and find a difference between them. That part of the choosing will have to be done on instinct, I'm afraid, but thank you so much for pointing it out to me. I would like to think that I can with the help of the written music make a difference between making the flute laugh and making it cry, but I am sure in this instance it would not depend too much on which make of flute I was playing, since I lack so much experience which I feel only time added to experience will clarify for me.

I can't. I just play the music.

What I did when I tested headjoints last year (and ended up with the beloved Nagahara) was to play lots of long, slow notes. That eliminated about half.

The remaining six were put through the Telemann test. I demanded the shop supply me with a book of Fantasias, and the register changes in that eliminated another three.

The last test was the Gaubert test. I played the beginning of Soir Paien both inside the practice room and outside in a more resonant acoustic. This confirmed the Nagahara as top banana.

Incidentally, all the tests were blind tests as far as possible (the Mancke with the wooden lip plate was rather difficult to hide ).

You're as bad as The Old Lady for spreading rumours about us

Qui, moi?
I only asked if you had really done any of those things...

How are you getting on with the new flute(s)?

I got a new headjoint for my beloved (and rather ancient) Yamaha 211 from All Flutes Plus and they were fantastic. The headjoint was a Christmas/birthday present from my husband and parents, and I think it's brilliant. I ended up in the room upstairs with the rugs on the wall - I didn't know there was a room downstairs!

For other reasons, I had to be up very early today, and have been to my flute lesson, to Warwick and out to Kenilworth, but nearly all the rest of the time I have been having great fun playing the two remaining flutes on my choice list. Just when I think I have made a choice the other one pops up as better on something. I guess that is Murphy's Law. Still there is always tomorrow....

The steps down are just to the right of the front desk, and there is a store room there also. I didn't have rugs on the walls though, so it sounded quite bright acoustically but that didn't put me off. Did you try out lots of headjoints on your own flute then?

Maybe you just need some more time to get used to either/both of them before you will be able to make a decision. How long have you got before you have to choose? What do you like (or dislike) about each of them?

I decided I wanted to play the flute about 12 years ago, and saved up and bought a Yamaha 211. For various (rather boring) reasons, I had a "this is how you hold the flute" lesson from a friend of a friend, and then didn't ever get the flute out and play it for about 11 years. Last September, I found a teacher and started to have lessons, and my husband and parents decided that since my flute was probably quite old, as I couldn't think of anything else I wanted for Christmas/birthday then they would put some money towards me getting a newer version. I went to All Flutes Plus and they gave me several flutes to try out, looked at mine and said that since mine was in great condition then perhaps a nice headjoint would be a better option. I tried 4 flutes (I think?) and I remember disliking a Pearl and a Trevor James, and then tried my flute with 3 different headjoints, and I ended up with a second-hand silver Mike Allen headjoint, which after a few weeks of getting used to it I now totally love.

My husband (who came with me) plays/played the flute (he got as far as grade 8 when he was about 15 and still plays a bit on occasion) has a Sankyo Etude flute, and whilst I love how smooth the keys feel, I don't like the headjoint compared to my 'new' one. By "how smooth the keys feel", I mean that it somehow feels lighter to play than mine, and it's easier to press the keys down, if that makes any sense!

What I do find interesting about my headjoint is that the (ummmm...) lip plate? is straight, compared to my husband's flute and my old Yamaha headjoint, which is sort-of slightly curved where you put it on your lip/chin, and the straight one is loads more comfortable for me - the curved ones sort of dig in! This is probably because I have a thin/narrow face - I usually end up with children's glasses/sunglasses as the adult ones are too wide. The embouchure hole is sort of squareish on mine as well, compared to a more elliptical (oval) shape on my husband's flute. (you can tell I'm a mathematician now! )

Right, I'll stop wittering. Hope you're enjoying choosing which one you like best!

that's OK. Now, will it be Altus, or Miyazawa? The one I think you'll pick is still in the running...



aww, thanks

You can do moods and emotions, Andante - you just do it without realising. I'm absolutely certain that you can, for example, create a difference in feel between the frozen landscape of Poulenc II and the eerie moonlight of Matthias II. It's just that you play so naturally that you don't have to think about this kind of thing.

I'm not very good at moods/emotions at all (and am particularly rubbish at things like cheerful and playful) but I can get closer on some flutes than others (N.B. I said closer not close!) - and this was what tipped the balance between flutes last summer as, for me, the Powell didn't seem to give me as much freedom of expression as the flute I now have.

One thing I forgot, though, when I posted about moods is that I can just mess around on my flute and make things up according to how I feel, but I know not everyone can do this and some people do feel very lost without music. There are advantages and disadvantages to both, e.g. I'm rubbish at rhythym particularly if there's lots of ties between crotchets and semiquavers, syncopated notes or dotted notes. I also have a bad habit of not following the music when I'm playing from it - I got lost several times in yesterdays violin lesson because the piece didn't have enough visual landmarks for me to get away with it.

Hope one of the flutes starts to stand out for you soon, gedall. If at the end of the trial week you still really can't decide then that would suggest that there isn't really anything between them and you might as well do it on price.

they are the same price...

That scuppers that idea then.

I'm glad that's not just me I freak out everytime I see something syncopated. I believe I did that on Saturday when Barry was trying to get me to play duets with him

This thread has had me giggling like a looney





Yay


Having heard you play on a number of occasions, Andante - have to agree with Flossie, you SO can!

Sounds like you are in a good stage playing-wise to make the decision, gedall! The one thing I really regret about my most recent flute purchase is that I was just not at the right stage to be making that upgrade. The Pearl is a good flute, it has a good mech and I have a long way to go before I will exhaust its potential, but even so, I know if I had been buying just a year later I would have been looking for a different flute and would have tried many more/known much more what I wanted out of the instrument!

Oh well. One of these days I'll be abe to afford a handmade headjoint and then I shall go to London and go crrrrrazy

One question: which of the two (Altus and Miyazawa) has the better reputation for tuffness/reliability of mechanism, and which has the better service network in the UK?

Sarah, don't leave it too late...my kids' needs, and specifically, Viohazard's little problem with instrument acqusition leave nothing in the budget for a new instrument for me. And to be fair, Viohazard hasn't actually bought even one of the wooden recorders he hankers for, let alone a lute...or a samisen,...or...

Don't worry. He had to correct the way I was playing one of the syncopated bars in our duet.

Jazz/latin rhythms - try listening to Anibal Intili. Something verrry strong and strange will start happening to your flute playing!

Altus has a very good reputation for both the scale and mechanism. As for the service network, as long as you get any brand of flute to Justflutes in Croydon, it will be in safe hands!

Stay tuned for the next instalment Sarah - barry-clari and Babybird2 hit all flutes plus...

It'll all be very civilised

Oh no it won't

It might be...

Anybody is welcome to post on this thread, but if I may just take it back on topic......

The decision is made.



I have spent most of this afternoon playing loads of my pieces, some solo, some with CD piano accompaniment. I have played (as well as I can, you understand ) pieces by Bach (JS) and Bach (CPE) through to Bullard, visiting such composers as Mozart and Rachmaninov on the way, as well as many of the pieces already mentioned earlier in this thread. I have played slow lyrical pieces, siciliennes, faster happy pieces and jazzy pieces, in major and minor keys, to try and give a broad work-out as Flossie has suggested in her postings. All pieces were played on both flutes, but I took it in turns as to which one went first.

It has been extremely difficult separating the Altus from the Miyazawa, but the more pieces I played, the more I grew into the Miyazawa and so the more it became my first choice. I thought it was interesting that I played the first piece without warming up either flute - the Miyazawa took it very slightly better than the Altus. But it is clear to me that choosing a flute is a very personal thing, and my choice may not be the right one for someone else.

So that's it, now I have to authorise full payment and get the other two back to AFP. I have decided to take Mrs Gerald down to London next week so that we can celebrate our first meeting exactly 49 years ago by doing what we did on that day - going to a Promenade Concert. So after taking the flutes to AFP by hand, we will have an early dinner and go to see the Wednesday evening concert which includes a Mozart violin concerto and Symphony Number 3 by Bruckner.

OK Claudia, your turn to choose a flute. Good Luck!

I thought you'd end up with the Miyazawa. It did suit you very well. Enjoy your new flute : hope to hear it in performance sometime

Congratulations Gerald

That's the decision I was expecting/hoping you would make.

They are both very good flutes, but I would expect the Miyazawa to suit your playing better - especially on occasions when you're playing under pressure. This isn't a reflection on the Altus at all - it's very individual.

I am so relieved I have chosen the right one in your opinion and I am already enjoying getting notes that I never knew existed before!

Performance? Hmm.........Chester maybe?

Thank you. Just don't play 10 Green Bottles on Saturday.....

As with Barry, I truly value your opinion, and to know that I have started on the next phase of flute learning with an instrument that you consider is good for me gives me a great boost of confidence.

Which I will need since you have just taken away my best excuse when playing under pressure

You won't need an excuse anymore soon.

Oh yes, do! Would love to see you there!

Well done everyone and Gerald especially. Hope you enjoy your new Flute!

Enjoy your flute and your night out!

Having just tried some of the same models, I was also anticipating that you might choose a Miyazawa flute...great minds, etc.!

I knew you'd choose the Miya, because when you tried my Altus, it didn't sound like when I play it. It is SO induvidual.
Enjoy.
What is it that Mrs G is having then??
Bev.

[quote name='sarah-flute' date='Jul 23 2009, 11:56 AM' post='855020']
I can't. I just play the music.

[/quote]
You can do moods and emotions, Andante - you just do it without realising. [/quote]
Having heard you play on a number of occasions, Andante - have to agree with Flossie, you SO can! [/quote]


Thank you both. I play the music musically. I can produce a very similar range of tone colours on most flutes that I play, including my tatty old Yamaha. Most flautists sound very similar whichever flute they are playing, but the better headjoints allow them to do things more easily.

But I cannot make flutes sing, dance, laugh or cry. I can make pieces do that, if it is called for, but it isn't anything to do with the instrument I'm playing. Most teachers would describe tone colours using words like 'edgy' or 'hollow', and these are produced with differing embouchure shapes. They can be used to add colour to a piece, but will not create emotions - the player does that.

Well, however you describe it, Andante - you can do it! *grin*


I will one day - sadly, things like replacing my fridge-freezer and my oven are the highest priority at the moment - haven't been able to use my oven since May, and while I CAN survive with a microwave and a camping hob, it's not ideal

One of these days...


*writes that down*





I doubt it

You cynic you

I'll post here after the event...

Nah, just a realist

It will definitely be civilised. If Mr B-C starts acting up I'll simply pretend I don't know him

Thank you, Flossie, I hope I can live up to your expectations... Thanks again, I am working on the idea of Chester, just need to clear a couple of things.... Thank you, that is not going to be difficult .We will have a good time, and the Miya worked for me so who knows... Another person with inside information - I think all bets should be declared null and void .

Regarding Mrs Gerald, behind this simple, naive question lies a web of entrapment carefully orchestrated by someone whom I once mistakenly called "my very best forum friend" . In front of my wife, this "lady" asked me what Mrs G was going to get when I got my flute, because "you ought to spend on her the same as the flute costs" . Trapped! Ganged up on! No way of escape! Since that fateful day, I have been asked every couple of days "when are you going to get your new flute, Gerald?" followed by a knowing, sweet smile. My answer has been "but you know I now have to save up for two flutes!" OK, the day has arrived. Bev, will it be in order to subtract from the cost of the flute the amount of the train fares, dinner, and prom tickets? .

[I think I already know the answer to that one ] So Mrs G will get a cheque to the same value as the cost of the flute, for her to spend in any way she wishes --- is that OK now?

To think I turned down the chance to run off with you

He couldn't afford you Notmusimum.
Yes, Gerald, that sounds perfect for Mrs G. I expect I am her newest bestest friend now
So, then, the Miyazawa it is. Will our duets sound even better now then??

Not now I can't . This new flute has really knocked a hole in my savings, so I am not much of a catch anyway, notmusimum. And with the cost of a divorce settlement that running away with you would almost certainly entail...doesn't bear thinking about .

Don't worry, Bev, Mrs G already refers to you as "my good friend Beverley" .

Well now, we were pretty good at Leeds in May, and it is hard to improve on perfection , but I think the Miya and Altus will make an excellent combination. I hope this new flute plays more right notes than the old one did

15 or so hours to go...

Yay BB and BC - it's today .

Flute testing...customer no. 2...

Claudia (BB2) and I were in a ground floor room this time, and we had a selection of 6 flutes to try : a Miyazawa 102, Pearl 765, Yamaha 411, Trevor James Signature, an Altus and an Azumi.

We managed to get it down to two flutes, the Azumi and the Yamaha. Claudia rejected the Pearl almost immediately, and it really didn't suit her at all. The Miyazawa, perhaps surprisingly, didn't last a lot longer than the Pearl. The other two flutes which didn't quite make the cut were close run things, but Claudia definitely was most comfy, and made the best sounds with the two she's taken away with her.

After nearly 2 hours in a-f-p, we retired to eat lunch, look at music books, and have a drink in a hostelry. Thoroughly enjoyed the day, and I received a nice text from Claudia on my way home saying she enjoyed it too.

Proms tomorrow!

I have been thinking about you two choosing flutes all day - wondering how you were getting on. Probably because my own experience is so recent. I am glad you had a good day, and look forward to seeing what Claudia has to say about her day.

I think the results confirm (if anybody needed confirmation) that

• No two people are going to automatically like the same flute
• You are definitely not being paid by any company to recommend any particular brand

Bev chose Altus, I rejected this and chose Miyazawa and now Claudia has rejected both of them! Although is an Azumi related to an Altus? I wonder which one she will choose.......

Enjoy the proms, Barry, you have earned your relaxation this week!

Azumi is indeed related to Altus, and she's kept the cheaper Azumi in preference to the more expensive Altus, which, as you quite correctly say, proves that no two people are going to automatically like the same flute.



Thanks!

I agree. When I was choosing last year, I rejected the Azumi first of all as its sound was too OTT for my playing - I can make a fair lot of noise without getting the flute to help - and the Yamaha followed shortly after. The flute I ended up with was the Pearl Quantz, so the complete opposite result to Babybird

Well done BB2 hope you enjoy the new flute.

Wave to Emsoboe tomorrow whilst at the Proms.

We will do!

Hello everyone, looks like Barry has kept you well updated

I'm a bit irritated that I can't try my flutes again til Monday. Argh.

It won't do any harm resting them 'til Monday.

Though I agree, seeing two lovely flutes and being unable to play them for a couple of days would test my patience somewhat...!

It is testing my patience