I am currently working on Grade 5 Piano and I have a question about Arpeggios.

I don't have a teacher at the moment so I am asking here in the meantime.

I have the scale book for G5 so I am familiar with the correct fingering, but my question is whether a thumb under is required to ensure the arpeggios are played legato or not.

Taking C Major RH as an example, the fingering for 3 octaves (G5 requires 3 octaves) is 123 123 1235 on the way up. Do you have to do a thumb under movement when your middle finger is on the G to reach the 2nd C, and so on as you move up the Piano, or are you permitted to lift your hand and jump to the 2nd C with your thumb?

i'm not a teacher so I could be wrong. I leave my 3rd finger down on g until my thumb reaches c.

Thumb under is the way to go , and as the above said, don't let go of the G too early

If you lift your hand and jump it won't be legato.
What do you do over 2 octaves? It's the same but an extra octave.
Other fingering works for some people but I'm afraid I'm not aware enough of some of the working alternatives as I've always managed with the 'standard' fingering.

I know if I lift my hand it won't be Legato. That was the crux of my question - is thumb under the way you are supposed to do it i.e. must play Legato, or is lifting and not playing them Legato they way you are supposed to do it?

You must play legato, so I think thumb under and holding on to the G until you play the C is the only practical solution.

They have to be legato. I've lost my old scales books so can't check, but I think it says something along the lines of 'fingering to maintain legato and melodic line' on the first page. Pedal is not allowed for scales etc, so it's impossible to make them legato if you hop between each octave.

Definitely don't jump! Also a good idea to ensure your elbow is held slightly out, away from your body, so that it doesn't jerk when you turn under. Pivot on the 3rd finger, and let the wrist do all the work (lateral movement). Same thing with the LH when coming down, of course.

I agree with what everyone else has said. Thumb under every time! You could also use 124 124 1245 if you liked, this is also an accepted fingering. The thumb under is the only way to play arpeggios. If you struggle to make them sound legato, one way to improve this is to as you play the G, your thumb should already be on it's way underneath the hand, pivoting on the G.

I think I've just repeated what HelenVJ just said! Her explanation is much clearer than mine!

It is important that even if you do thumb under, your wrist and arm are following along with your fingers, otherwise we end up with a great jerk as the thumb goes under and the elbow suddenly sticks out.

David

It is not necessarily wrong to jump, nor is impossible to achieve legato by a different method.

Dinu Lipatti says, "...it has been at least ten years since I last crossed my thumb under the third finger" and similarly Charles Rosen finds, "It is better for me to keep my hand at a steady angle and displace the arm quickly to the right when sifting from the third finger to the thumn, and I have learned how to accomplish this legato."

However, it may be advisable to find someone to observe you play since, as Rosen goes on to say, "Everything depends, of course, on the shape of the hand."

Thumb under all the way up with extremely smooth articulation (to avoid any harmful contractions as there are very delicate tissues around the thumb) and placing it in position before the note is played (which means prerparing it in advance, so to speak, in a tiny fraction of a second); otherwise the legato effect is lost. This is a hard and fast rule for every arpeggio (and in every case, for that matter) when they have to be played legato.

Just a repeat of everyone else. Thumb under is the best way for legato (when you get to doing them staccato you can probably jump), and try not to jerk the elbow. If you have to, then make it smooth and looking natural. My piano teacher always used to call me a chicken when I jerked my elbow.

Yes, definitely thumb under. Your ears will be your best guide to hearing whether its legato.