My daughter has done well so far on her Yamaha 211S flute, but I gather there comes a time when it is beneficial to upgrade. What experience have other flute players had? When do they find they have wished/needed to upgrade and have they gone for new models or just headjoints? All advice welcome - she's Grade6/7 standard. Is her existing flute likely to be OK - or could it potentially be holding her back?

I upgraded after grade5, and have never looked back, a silver head does really make a huge amount of difference. Is there anyone out there who can give more technical advice?

I am the same standard as your daughter, and had a 211S Yamaha until about 2 weeks ago. My flute teacher suggested to go for either a) the Yamaha body and a handmade headjoint - this makes a major difference to the sound or this really good deal I had found (make sure you check these out) or c) get a Yamaha 371 and a handmade headjoint. It depends how much you wanted to spend, overall my new flute (a combination of a Yamaha 574 body and William Simmons headjoint) cost around £1300, but a) would probably cost around £500-600, and c) would cost around a £1000. Have a talk with her flute teacher and see what they think. I found mine was so helpful! Also, think about selling the Yamaha etc. The Yamaha would be alright, there is no specification saying you need "x, y or z", but it would be beneficial to upgrade. PM me if you need more help. Good luck!

If a pupil is having instrumental lessons in school they can purchase instruments less of VAT which can save hundreds of pounds - ask about this at your daughter's schooll.
BTW definitely go for a silver head.

i udgraded my flute after i passed grade 5 and found a huge difference with the flute i have now. I originally had a yamaha flute but i bought a miyazowa model 2 years ago for around £1200 (i got VAT off) and i have found that i can get a much better tone now and it is a joy to play, it really does make a difference! i asked for advice at my local music shop (windblowers, nottingham) and they were extremely helpful and guided me to which flutes would last me beyond grade 8 standard and let me try as many as i wished. you should definitely try to find somewhere like that where they can give you as much advice as you need.

What about open holes?

Open holes are a lot harder though! It takes a while to get used to them

QUOTE (Subatomic_Star @ Nov 27 2004, 08:39 PM)

Open holes are a lot harder though! It takes a while to get used to them

There are now works that require open holes for correct performance, but you are very unlikely to meet them before Grade 8. That's the trouble with composers: if someone produces an instrument with an extra feature, they want to use it, like Bartok writing glissandi when the pedal timp was invented, Shostakovich with a bottom B in an important flute solo in the 10th symphony, and all the works that take bass clarinets down to bottom C. Not quite as bad as a change of standard pitch for making people buy new woodwind instruments.

My resident flute teacher points out that open holes give you better control of intonation, because closing the key without covering the hole will lower the pitch less than closing it covered.

I did grade 8 on a battered old Emperor (for those who don't know, that was a forerunner of the Buffet and not as good) and got a merit. To be fair though, I think the examiner convinced herself that it was the flute that was letting my tone down whereas the truth was I just was a lousy player ...

Most people seem to upgrade to a silver head at around grade 7.

Liz

QUOTE (elidatrading @ Dec 8 2004, 09:23 PM)

Most people seem to upgrade to a silver head at around grade 7.

Usually advised by the experty people to upgrade to silver head around grade 5.

Fair enough, I'm speaking as a dealer not an expert. Perhaps it takes two years for the message to sink in!

Liz

QUOTE (Subatomic_Star @ Dec 8 2004, 10:57 PM)

QUOTE (elidatrading @ Dec 8 2004, 09:23 PM) Most people seem to upgrade to a silver head at around grade 7. Usually advised by the experty people to upgrade to silver head around grade 5.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I play with just a silver plated head... and I'm probably about grade 8 standard now. In fact, I'm playing a jazz flute solo in front of a couple of hundred (600?) people tomorrow. I think.

I'm still using my YFL22, now something like 25 years old. To be honest, I think I should have upgraded - when I was playing the kind of pieces listed in the ABRSM Grade 6-7 syllabi, I fretted so much over my tone, and finally convinced myself I was a dud flautist (not that I was necessarily wrong in that assessment!).

New headjoint or new flute? Depends on your budget, of course, but also on the condition of the present flute - was it bought new or secondhand? Has it ever been overhauled, to your knowledge? Have pads been replaced? Springs working nicely (keys close fully and open promptly)? No crooked or bent keys? If it is in poor condition, add maintenance costs (expensive!) to the equation.

There is a LOT to think about in buying a flute because there are so many moving parts, and also so many options. I would be inclined to recommend a new headjoint, and meanwhile, suggest that your daughter try out flutes shamelessly in shops or at orchestra practice... that way, when she gets to the stage where she really has to have a B-foot available, she will have a clearer idea of what key options she wants.

Bone up on the terminology at...
http://www.fluteworld.com/Merchant/glossary.htm

Meanwhile, plenty to think about in headjoint options! Type of embouchure, type of metal...price...

Happy shopping!

For parents with lots of expenses it can be difficult to consider upgrading your child's instrument when (to the non-musical parent) the instrument is working fine.
I did my grade 8 (many years ago) on a cheap chinese flute as nothing else could be afforded. Since then I have bought better flutes for myself.
However flute students whose parents will consider upgrading their student instruments are very lucky!!

As a professional musician, albeit violinist, who also dabbles in woodwind, I was wandering through your thread and thought I'd add my thoughts for what they might be worth.

I personally know Paul Edmund-Davies (a name the majority of keen flautists will be familiar with), and he plays a Powell flute. Now I'm not suggesting for one minute that us lesser mortals have enough cash sloshing around to afford a Powell flute, but, for those who may be prepared to go the extra mile on their upgrade, Powell run a division called Sonare Winds and they produce a range of highly regarded upgrade/advanced flutes which uses the solid-silver, hand-cut, Powell Signature headjoint.

They are available with silver-plate tubes or solid silver tubes (depending on the model) and a choice of either a C or B footjoint.

I know that Paul has tried these flutes out for evaluation purposes and speaks highly of them. Ok, so some of you are probably saying - "how much did Powell pay him to say that?" They didn't, and he's not the sort of guy who'd stick his own reputation the line for some gimmick.

I tried one out for myself, alongside a TJ Masters 1 and an open-hole Yamaha with an Altus headjoint. I played them all blindfolded, so I had no idea which I was being handed. Before removing the blindfold I chose the one I preferred and it was the Sonare 5000. I swear it was because of the superior quality headjoint. The instrument honestly sounded as good as any you'd find amongst mid-priced professional flutes. The cost?? £945

But, as with any musical instrument, tonal likes and dislikes are all down to personal preference. As for reliability, this is often down to personal experience. The same can happen when buying a car - two people with the same model of vehicle, one has no problems while the other has nothing but trouble.

Finally, I have no idea how Sonare compare to Armstrong flutes, but I'll remove my sales hat now.....before Liz has me shot

Amanda

If heard from some of the teachers who contribute to the main flute email lists that the Sonares need to be checked carefully against a tuner, as some, but not all, have pitch problems. The body is made by a different company (Chinese or Taiwanese I think), under licence to Powell, and the scale does seem to vary.

Some teachers have had really positive experiences with the Sonare, and others won't touch them with a bargepole. It does seem to be due to individual variations in the flutes. If you can try several, so much the better.

BTW I play a Powell flute, so I think they're definitely worth a look, particularly if you want a free-blowing headjoint.

QUOTE

Some teachers have had really positive experiences with the Sonare, and others won't touch them with a bargepole. It does seem to be due to individual variations in the flutes. If you can try several, so much the better.

I think this could possibly be an issue with a lot of wind instrument manufacturers that mass produce. As you say, it's often down to each individual flute and I guess some variation can creep in every so often.

No two will be alike anyway, so it's obviously a bonus to play several of the same instrument to compare tonal properties as well.

Amanda

Many thanks to everybody for their advice and a Happy Christmas.

It's certainly worth her trying as many flutes as she can. She's obviously doing well on the flute she has to be G6-7, so maybe this won't apply so much, but be wary of upgrading too far - because learning to get a great sound out of a not that great flute means that when you do upgrade, the sound will be fabulous... if you know what I mean. Obviously she muct be getting a pretty good sound out of the flute she has to be getting through those exams, but it's just worth bearing in mind.... to exagerate and be a little silly, but illustrate my point, if a mediocre flautist was given one of James Galway's golden flutes, he might sound better, but he wouldn't sound good, and it would take more than the gold to make him good. It would probably be easier to make a better sound on than say his old nickel flute, but he would not be able to get the best out of it! Whereas a flautist who has learned on each flute how to coax the best tones from that flute, right from their nickel starter flute up to their lovely solid silver flute... and they have learned to get a good sound despite any disadvantages the current flute may have - you give them a gold handmade flute and they will know how to make it sound amazing. Spending £s on a flute is a big investment... be sure it is the most appropriate flute for her as much as you can.

I hope you have great success in finding an upgrade flute for your daughter!