I have watched quite a bit of the athletics World Championships in the last few days.
I cringe when I hear the commentators say 'fifth' or worse still 'sixth'. They seem unable to pronouce it properly.
But the biggest laugh was Geoffrey Boycott during the test match referring to one of the Australian bowlers as 'ilfenouse'.

They're all trained to speak using the absolute minimum of correct grammar, which I guess must be to cut costs during the recession. Their articulate mannerisms are sucked out of them in sci-fi pointy hat form until they vow that "the lad dun gud".

'Ilfen'ouse surely? Any road what's up wi' that? It's a regional dialect, not mispronunciation (as you should indeed know, coming as you do from the finest county in the land).

Speaking of which, I've always enjoyed listening to Brendan Foster mangling names. Try Geta Wami or Rosa Mota with a geordie accent and you'll get my drift.

I have quite a warm affection for the Geordie accent though - it always makes me smile Proper Yorkshire/Lancashire (eg: Fred Dibnah) is awesome too!

What do you mean by 'properly'?

I know that some people do think that everybody should have a posh Southern accent and that anyone who doesn't isn't a 'proper' person. However, even the so called 'proper' Southern accents are still accents - just as much as Yorkshire, Geordie, Scouse etc. I get very fed up sometimes of people who decide that I'm too 'common' for them to associate with on the basis of accent (and yes it has happened a number of times) - I'm just as much a person as anyone else.

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at here F#minor, because you're not someone who I would have expected to jump on the 'northerners have different accents and therefore aren't proper people' or 'everyone needs to have a southern accent' bandwagon.

Vindication for Northerners (well, most of them):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/04/6

This article stuck in my head the first time I read it (I think the one I read was in the Times but this is along the same lines)

I agree! It's the same with my accent - when I told my nan I quite fancied going into news broadcasting or something she said, "You'll need to learn how to talk properly then."


I do see your point though, fsm!

I like this theory - it makes me laugh

Fsharpminor said nothing at all about accents - his gripe was with commentators who cannot pronounce some words - this has nothing at all to do with accent. Whatever your accent you can still pronounce words - I cringe when I hear "sixth" pronounced as "sickth", and "fifth" as "fith". Couldn't care less whether they come from North, South, East or West with the corresponding accent - if they are commentating on national radio or television I expect them to know how to pronounce these simple words.

Yes that's what I thought fsm meant too. I haven't noticed fifth, but all broadcasters these days seem to say "sickth". I can't even say "sickth" when I try. When and why did "sixth" become "sickth"?

And why did the UK "maths" become the Amercian "math" which I've heard quite a number of times lately.

I've even heard people on television pronounce the plural of "woman" as "women" instead of "wimmin"...

Yep, know exactly what you mean fsm!

How do you pronounce 'sixth'? Sorry, but I don't think I physically can say it 'properly'.

Same. I thought you did pronounce it sort of like sickth
And my friends tease me about my 'posh' accent... my japanese friend said her mum told her she thought I spoke "like a princess"

By saying that there is a 'proper' way of pronouncing words you are intrinsically saying that any accents/dialects which do not pronounce the words in the same way are not 'proper'. By saying that such people should not appear on the TV or radio you are (intentionally or unintentionally) making judgements about people's value on the basis of their accent, and are ignoring the fact that what you consider to be 'proper' pronounciation is in fact still an accent. I find this offensive, although I trust that it was not your intention to offend, and think we should maybe agree to differ rather than having this thread turn into an argument.

Wots rong wiv not torkin proper like wot the queen duz?

Same here

The comedian Dara O'brien makes me laugh when he says 'this round's for evryan, instead of everyone.

Here it isn't how they speak but the fact that they submit us to endless stupid and irrelevant comments. They often comment in pairs and spend their time natterring inanely to each other about previous matches, the private lives of athletes and their own boring reminiscences. The Tour de France was a case in point.

It's not confined to sport either. French television news has down graded to become to some sort of magazine programme but even so when they are talking about summer music festivals it would be nice if the commentators would shut up and let us hear the music. They do the same thing for other events and even for religious services. I wonder if they get paid piece work per word.

I wasn't at all talking about accents. I have a Yorkshire accent myself, though I rarely drop h's. Mispronouncing sixth etc is just laziness. Lots of people also mispronounce library and February for the same reason. I also do not like to hear French origin words like bouquet and lingerie anglicised. They should be pronounced as in French.

Say "six", then put your tongue between your teeth and say "th". It's not THAT hard surely?


Agreed Fsharpminor's main gripe was with mis-pronunciation, with which I agree. However, I said I thought Geoff Boycott's pronunciation (dropped Hs) was dialect not mis-pronunciation. That's where the "accents" thing cropped up. Oh and to call dropped Hs lazy is plain daft. Some might think it's ugly but then I grew up with it in Yorkshire. I hate the Islington glotal stop so beloved of politicians in the Blair era.

Just as an aside, a little story about dropped 'aitches'. I did post this once before but ages ago, so new members might smile.
Father in law had a colleague in the army who was broad Yorkshire.

At drill (to Yorkshireman):_

Sergeant: 'You there, two steps forward, what's your name ?'

Yorkshireman: ' 'Arrison , sir ! '

Sergeant (taking the mickey): 'Oh yes 'arrison, and 'ow do you spell that 'arrison ??'

Yorkshireman: ' Sir. A haitch, a hay, two hars, a hi, a hess , a ho, and a hen, Sir !'

Ah yes. I remember that one. I once took a cartoon into school to show our English Teacher - Harry Hopkins. It was a student on University Challenge introducing himself as " 'arry 'opkins reading henglish".