I have a friend who is seeming to drink increasing amounts of alcohol throughout the day.

When I went round she used to occasionally offer me a glass of wine and usually with lunch or something so I'd accept.

It's gone from this to presenting me with cider instead of a coffee, then wine and today I was given a liqueur!!!

I don't really like to drink in the day and have another friend who feels the same but we find it very hard to turn these drinks down as we are not asked if we want one - which we could decline easily - but presented with one ready poured.

I've taken to not going round to hers as often to avoid these situations but it's difficult because our kids are friends and on one occasion she brought a bottle of wine round to mine when a group of us and associated kids were playing out in my garden.

The other friend has reacently told her that she thinks she drinks too much and is worried about her (after we discussed the situation together) but it was brushed off and explained away as her job (She's landlady of a drinking venue/club).

We think she drinks to cope but it's escalated although she isn't a drunk and functions very well being a full time mum (days) and a sucessful manager by night.

I am concerned for her as I wouldn't want her to fall into a slippery decline but I'm also concerned for me. How do I decline these ready poured alcoholic offerings without deeply offending?

Currently both myself and friend sip a bit and leave some most of the time but I'd rather not have any at all - unless for a special occasion or a planned "do" which would usually be in the evening A friend's mother who doesn't drink at all also accepted a drink when given one recently.

She plays a very generous host but i am aware that in a way giving others a drink justifies her own drinking....

After today's whisky liqueur offering I need to say something but what? and how?

I thought she was making coffee as she had said she'd go put the kettle on and she came back with liqueurs. I was rather shocked so said nothing. I feel now I should have said "Not for me thanks." or "that's a funny coffee!"

Any advice?

Tell her that you have to drive later on? People never object to you not drinking if you have to drive, in my experience.

I've done this and it took her aback but I don't have a car in the day and I think she'd smell a rat if i said so every time. I'd rather be more upfront but tactful too. She can be quite volatile in her reactions at times.

Just say you're on a diet and want to avoid empty calories.

You could say:

- You're on some sort of long-term medication which prohibits you from drinking...
- You've converted to Islam and alcohol is forbidden.
- You're giving up alcohol.

There's not much real option other than pulling her up on it, maybe she has issues that she feels she can't deal with without a drink. Any number of things could be the cause. If you're a close friend, it shouldn't be that difficult to ask if everything's ok and go from there if she wants to 'fess up...

I thought she was making coffee as she had said she'd go put the kettle on and she came back with liqueurs. I was rather shocked so said nothing. I feel now I should have said "Not for me thanks." or "that's a funny coffee!"


Yep I reckon a joking comment like that would suffice. If she is your friend then tell her straight out that you would rather not as you don't drink in the day unless it is a special occasion. if you don't tell her then maybe she feels that she is being a good hostess by offering you a drink.

ET

I would be completely honest and say that you don't want an alcoholic drink. I don't drink alcohol at all anymore and while I've never been in a position where people have served me up a drink without asking, I have always said no to an alcoholic drink when offered and have always felt fine with it. I know that some people find it strange that I don't drink alcohol but I've never been made to feel uncomfortable. If it's at the point where without fail she will serve you a drink without asking then perhaps you should request a soft drink as soon as she makes her way to prepare the drinks. Surely after a while she will get the idea that you don't want to have anything alcoholic? If she questions you about it you could either be completely honest and say that you don't like drinking during the day, or you could say that you've gone off of alcohol a bit - maybe in keeping with your healthier lifestyle?

Lucid

I am actually being serious!!!

Thought for a long while before posting this but thought the picture may be clearer from the outside. Myself and my friend really do not know what to do about the situation with this other friend right now.

Do good friends stay quiet like we have done up to now??
Or do we face up to her and tell her what we think?? (Knowing she's likely to fly off at us or totally deny it?)

Thing is by accepting the infrequent drinks we kind of feel like we've condoned it but now it's not infrequent - it's every time we go and we are not asked but given a drink AND they are getting stronger. That's an issue and a problem to us.

Speaking out of experience with alcoholics: Don't feel like YOU have to be the one who has to apologise for saying no.
Just say no, you don't have to justify yourself. Try to be polite, but if she doesn't want to get the message, you might have to get firmer. That might feel unpleasant, but if it comes push to shove, it's necessary. It is impolite of her to force you into drinking if you don't want to, not of you to politely say no. If someone was allergic to nuts, nobody would feel offended if they said no to a snack of peanuts being offered. If you don't want to drink, you don't want to drink. End of. It's not more impolite than saying no to a cup of coffee if you only drink tea. People might find that impolite as well - so what? If she is a real friend, she shouldn't mind.

If she has a drinking problem, you cannot really help if she is not at the point yet where she notices she has a problem - whatever you do or say will, in the worst case, be taken as an offence or a personal insult anyway. It is in her own and your interest though that you stand your ground here ...

This is a difficult one, and the word 'alcoholic' is always a hard one to mention, and most alocholics are in denial. For your own point of view, I would definitely start asking for a cuppa specifically saying that it is way too early for a drink and you need a clear head for the rest of the day when refreshments are being considered and making a point of asking for tea or coffee and not alcohol, you should be able to do this jokily and get away with it.

As for helping your friend that is going to be harder, as she has probably not admitted that there is a problem and will not thank you for suggesting that there is. Encouraging soft drinks when you're together is a start, and being there to listen will help, but I do wish you all the best. Good luck - there is no short term solution.

Thanks Lucid.(edit: and others) I guess I could say just a glass of water please. In the past I was given cider as she had no coffee or juice in.

Yes, as am I. That seems a good enough excuse to refuse an alcoholic drink.

Your friend will only be able to be helped when/if she decides that she needs it. Until that time, your attempt at helping her is unlikely to work.

OK. It's just I've lost over a stone in weight lately and I think she'd laugh if I said that. That said I have put a few pounds back on on my holiday. Not that much but I could use it a bit. Say I'm being really good again. Prefer a more honest and long term approach though.

My friend has recently had a minor (ish) op and we thought this would stop/slow her down but no.

Her child has special needs and I guess this is the crux of it but makes it all the more delicate but if it gets to the point where her child could be affected (WHICH IT IS NOT YET) I'd feel such a bad friend to have done nothing...

Could you say that you stopped to think about how often YOU were drinking during the day and were shocked by how much it came to and that it had become pretty much everyday. It might make her stop to think. Or could you say you don't drink in the day any more because you saw something on TV about how more than 6 drinks a week increased your risk of some serious illness. (A bit of research is bound to bring something suitable up, I think there was even something last week before the don't eat ham one)

I know you want to but you probably can't help your friend. It might be different if they recognised they had a problem.

I would just say nicely that I didn't want an alcoholic drink. It might be a bit difficult the first time but it will get easier.

Seriously if she is a close good friend then I would let her know that you are concerned about her drinking, if it was my close friend then I certainly would speak out. Even if she did go off the handle when she calmed down she would realise that it is because you care.

Your comment about offering others a drink to justify her own drinking rings very true.

It depends on the closeness of your friendship but, from the way you have described it, it seems too serious a problem (potentially) to beat about the bush making jokes and excuses. If it were me I would probably say something fairly direct but it would depend on the nature of the relationship whether you feel able to do that. You may have to be cruel to be kind, if you can.

A friend of mine has told me several times how pleased she is I told her how bad her posture was as it prompted her to do something about it. Nobody else had mentioned it.

You're not a bad friend, otherwise you wouldn't be concerned. Still, the psychology of alcohol-related problems is a very tricky one, and there is not much you can do, as hard as this might seem. Not all alcoholics lie boozed up on their sofa all day - many of them function pretty well up to a certain level (no pun intended). The problem can be pretty serious without too many people actually noticing apart from close family and friends, and sometimes even they don't until quite late. If your friend really has an alcohol-problem, maybe a few pointers (no guarantees given ) having had an alcoholic in my family:

1. You cannot really help an alcoholic if they don't want to be helped (yet). They usually have to arrive at some sort of low point to see that they need help. I know this sounds awful, but as long as everything is "functional", they won't admit having a problem, and no matter what you do, you won't make them change their mind.
2. Trying to push THEM into something ("I won't come round if you don't stop drinking") won't help - they might stay sober/not drink if you come round, but they will drink if you're not. They also won't be happy and feel stressed, which will make things worse.
3. On the other hand, don't let them push YOU into something either. If things need to be addressed, wait until they are sober/not in a social situation. Don't be reproachful, rather tell them about your concerns and offer them an open ear. That's the most you can do however - don't feel offended if they brush it off or even laugh at you, get angry of don't want to see you for a while. It hurts, but it's a part of the condition. You have to be pretty sure that you want to go down this path, it's not pleasant.
4. Alcoholics, like most addicts, test their limits (and I mean not the drinking ones!) and boundaries on a constant basis, so make sure that you don't get soft on them because you feel pity (for them or yourself!). They will promise you a lot to have their peace, and they will also do a lot to get their way.
5. Be there when they need help and admit they do. However, their problems are not yours, and don't let them try to force them on you or, even worse, force THEM to make them yours ("If you only let me help you - why don't you?"). Sometimes you might have to admit to yourself that you are not the right person to help, and it's no shame.

Good friendships should be able to survive differences of opinion, I think - and it's okay to keep stumm when something is evolving, but when the point comes that both you and another friend are anxious for her, then you could rightly assume that this could well be becoming a problem. It takes guts to say something, and it might well be that she reacts badly, but of the two options, saying something or appearing to collude with it, which is really preferable? One option might be for the both of you to sit down with her together and share your concerns, another to tackle her separately - certainly if one of you says something then the other ought to know about it, so that you can minimise the chance of her trying to play one of you off against the other. It is also harder to ignore such opinions if they come from more than one quarter.

To me it sounds like evolving alchoholism. It is worth knowing the facts about heavy daily drinking, and I think is also perfectly acceptable to decline drinks in the middle of the day - I can't drink then, or I am far too dozy in the afternoon, and it would be fine to say, sorry, no, you are wanting to keep a clear head for later, and never mind giving a reason. HG's point about weight is still valid - if you have lost weight recently then you can point out that you don't want it going back on. (unless it was unintentional weight loss?). One of the problems of course is that addiction causes denial, and with that comes defensiveness. Showing that you are harbouring no grudges is about all you can do - and if she ends up alienating most of her friends, she may be grateful for support later on.

Ultimately, it can mean re-evaluating the friendship though - and really, it is better to try to maintain a friendship with honesty, than to play a part you find uncomfortable. It's a difficult decision to make, and I'm sorry you are in such a predicament.

These are both along the lines of what I would say. Whether or not they make your friend think twice as regards her own drinking might depend on how dependent she has become, but by saying 'no thanks' outright, she won't be able to use offering you a drink as an excuse to have another herself.




Don't feel guilty about this - you had no idea that there seemed to be a problem, and now that you have, you are trying to do something about it.

It must be a horrible situation to be in.

I would be totally honest and say I'd rather have a coffee/tea at this time of day and just leave the alcohol sitting on the table untouched.

I'm afraid I'm not subtle (but I am polite of course) about people trying to force things on me that I don't want: many things can make me ill so I just say exactly what I mean. I wouldn't bother with silly excuses.

As for your friend I don't know - lots of good thoughts here though. Perhaps again I would be blunt.. maybe too blunt.. but at least people know where they stand if you show genuine concern and get to the point.

Good luck - tricky one for you.

Speaking from similar experience to mezzo - she is bang on the money.

You are not responsible.

If you raise it, she will deny and push you away.

One of the problems faced by friends and relatives of alcoholics is the helplessness felt at not being able to do anything. You have to accept you can't really help. In any choice between your own decisions (e.g. not drinking during the day) and not offending your friend, the former is clearly the choice to make.

Landlords / ladies are, unsurprisingly, the profession with the highest rate of alcoholism. Watching everyone else drink all day and night normalises it and so you think it's ok to.

If she is a really good friend, and you want to keep in contact, then you might want to try Al-Anon. This will of course be the test of how good a friend as why should you have to go to extra effort to deal with someone else's problem. Most people will only do this for a partner or immediate family member.

I undesrtand what you are getting at but truthfully (outside of the situations described above) I DON'T drink in the day apart from very occasionally on a Friday/saturday afternoon in a summer beer garden (maybe a couple of times over the summer at most) or if at a social occasion/meal out etc. I certainly NEVER offer wine to my friends in the day and would never dream of pouring one without asking first. In fact my husband and I share a bottle of wine infrequently - maybe one a fortnight on average but on holiday it can be more like a drink or two most evenings. having young kids we rarely are out drinking in the pub etc. I think she'd realise I was lying if i said that and I'd rather be honest than seen as a cowardly liar.



Thanks Lottie. This is why i persuaded my other friend to approach her first as I think I'd come over too bluntly. maybe it's now my turn....

Wish me luck....

How would it sound to just say "Not for me thanks" when given a glass of something "Could I just have a glass of juice/water/tea/coffee please?" And then if asked why to say "I really don't like drinking in the day. I always feel a little fuzzy headed afterward and to be honest ****** I'm a little concerned that you may be drinking too much too." ???





She's a good friend but one from recent years only. She's kind, caring, generous and works extremely hard. She also has a lot of difficulties to deal with concerning her child. Our children are very close friends and I understand her child's difficulties too which is pretty uncommon I think. We would be there for each other if faced with any practical difficulties so i feel i should do something about this. However I do think it's been going on too long. She stopped smoking when she found out she was expecting and has not touched one since. All credit to her for will power there!! BUT I think alcohol has become a replacement for the cigs.

What exactly do AL-Anon do??

I couldn't agree more (having had a similar experience with a friend). And if there's one point I'd reinforce it's "wait until they are sober/not in a social situation". Remember, all addictions are selfish. When someone who drinks too much offers you a drink it's because they want alcohol themselves, not for "real" social reasons. Which means that, even though it is not visible, they are probably struggling with themselves and trying to resist an urge. They know their habit is a destructive one but the addiction is very strong. There is usually no point in trying to reason with them at such times and all you'll achieve if you do is to make them angry. In fact, their vehemence can be very surprising, and is also usually one of the signs that there's a real problem.

People with an addiction can become very devious. That doesn't mean your friend has changed fundamentally and is no longer there, with all of the qualities that made you friends in the first place. It's just that she's coping with something extra. By getting you, and others, to accompany her in drinking she's not really concerned about your feelings and pleasure, she's looking for an excuse to give in to an urge, which is why she plonks a glass down in front of you without asking. If you give in, you are, in a way, condoning and reinforcing that weakness in her. You will not help her by indulging her habit and I think, if you want to be able to help her, you must stand firm. You've already put down the first foundation in helping her, just by expressing your concern and, presumably, letting her know that support is there if she needs it. For the moment, at least, there's little else you can do. As others have said, it has to come from her....

Just a thought, does she have family members whom you could talk to?

http://www.aa-uk.org.uk/lists/Alanon.htm

"Al-Anon Family Groups provide understanding, strength and hope to
anyone whose life is, or has been, affected by someone else's drinking."

I agree with everyone who has pointed out that we are powerless over other alcoholics. No one can force an alcoholic to stop drinking.
I would go along with what several others have said - just firmly say you'd like a juice/coffee/water or whatever.
Al-Anon is fantastic.

That would be difficult as there's really only her parents and I really don't know them and I think her husband drinks in the evenings too. How much though...I don't know.

She has many friends who "condone" her drinking. She's been very clever (devious?) and not made a secret of her drinking and over the last couple of years a number of us have had a drink or two with her. For us it was supposed to be a one off in honour of a bad day or to mark an occasion or whatever.... For her it was obviously part of the habit. But her Bright relaxed nature and generous hospitality has made many people help her justify this. I now regret going along with these occasions but wasn't to know how it would all turn out. She jokes openly about her drinking and another friend jokily bought her a plaque last year that said something about "Rubbish in the bin, pots in the sink... I'll do it all tomorrow, right now I need a drink!" It suited her to a tee but we are now nearly a year on and things haven't improved. She was going to learn to drive which made us think "Yes! She'll have to kick the booze now!" but now she says she doesn't have the confidence to do it probably true (she's a jumpy passenger)- but I also suspect that the drinking has played a part in her decision. Originally she wasn't a landlady and that is a relatively recent role she's taken on (Over the past 12 months). Before this role arose her drinking was already on the increase and she'd actually been offered her old job back (as manageress in a shop) and I'd hoped that it would help her reduce the drinking but she took teh alternative role due to wanting to be there for her child during the day and as people buy her drinks at work etc it's increased from there.

Thanks for listening. I feel better to finally get all this off my chest....

Decisions then are:

I'm going to refuse alcohol from her from now on unless we are having a girlie evening in or at the pub.

I'm going to further discuss this with my other friend to get her to say no and stand firm too.

Then If the occasion arises I'll tell her how concerned I am about her drinking and I'll do whatever I can to support her if she decides to stop.

Finally, although I don't want to think about this if needs be I'll have to stay my distance if her drinking gets to the point of having a serious effect on me/my child when we visit.

Thankyou for helping me work this out.


Thanks all for the support and advice

The other thing that you could do Dawn if things become too much and you feel that you can't talk face to face with her, is to write her a letter and let her know how you value her friendship but that her drinking is causing you and your other friend concern.

Let her know that you are there to support her if she decides to take action for this; of course your friend may feel that she has no problem at all and just enjoys a drink, you will know that better than any of us.

Good luck and it sounds to me like you are being a great friend otherwise you wouldn't be having these concerns.

ET

I'd thought about a letter but it all seemed too formal. Better face to face although a bit daunting. I think she will deny it but I really do think she is in problem territory. She gave up for 5 days after an operation earlier this year and thought she'd done really well. then got stressed with child's difficulties and reaction to them and had a Whiskey. Then it was back to normal.

I'm not so sure I've been such a good friend to turn a blind eye for so long.... But I am concerned for her and about any long term implications for her and her child. But now's the time to put an end to my Complicity in it and hopefully our other friend will do the same...