Sorry, it's me - again. Just started on that theory grade 3 thing, thus all the beginners questions.

It states in the syllabus

Scales and key signatures of all major and mior keys up to and including four sharps and flats, including both harmonic and melodic forms of minor scales, with their tonic triads (root position), degrees (number only), and intervals above the tonic (number and type).

Scales, key signatures, major and minor (harmonic or melodic) I know. I know also what a triad is - generally.

So, when it states "degrees (number only)" ... is with this the degree of the note meant? The 3rd and 5th above the tonic? And what is meant with intervals above the tonic (NUMBER and TYPE)? Does this mean, if it is minor, diminished, augmented and so on and the Roman number according to this wording?

PS: I am going for another theory distinction this year in a foreign language, so forgive me the stupid questions.

Ok, so:

Degrees (numbers only) probably means Roman numerals such as I II III IV V VI VII as opposed to the names such as tonic, supertonic, mediant, subdominant, dominant, sub mediant and leading not.

The tonic is the key signature. This is badly put I know but what I mean is If you are in C major the tonic C. so the 3rd and 5th above the tonic is E and G (ie a major triad)

The interval is not the same as the roman numerals. I suppose the easiest way to think about this is if you think of the major scale then all the intervals are major except the unison, 4th, 5th and the 8ve which are all perfect. So for example if you have a 3rd you know what a major 3rd looks like in C major looks like and if the 3rd is a semitone lower it is a minor 3rd, 2 semitones lower and its a diminished 3rd and a semitone higher and it is an augmented 3rd. This applies to 2nds, 3rds, 6ths and 7ths. With perfect intervals again you know what a perfect 5th looks like and if it is a semitone lower it is diminished and if it is a semitone higher it is augmented and this applies to Unisons, 4ths, 5ths and 8ves.

I hope this helps. After you've done it a few times you'll work out your own system for figuring them out.

The degree of the scale (number only) means 1st (= tonic), 2nd (= supertonic) etc

I would save the Roman numerals for describing chords - I IV V etc

Intervals are described as Unison, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, Octave (8ve), rather than by Roman numeral
eg Major 2nd, Perfect 5th, Diminished 7th etc

Good luck with your studying..

Can I check that it *is* the ABRSM exam that you're working towards? Assuming it is...

Fortunately you don't need to know about diminished and augmented intervals until Grade 4. At Grade 3, you just need to know about major, minor and perfect intervals.

As SueHM has said, the ABRSM reserves roman numerals for chords, and again they don't come in until Grade 4.


Putting all your posts together, I'm sensing some confusion! Can I ask what books you're using? I know you've got Music Theory in Practice, but particularly if you haven't got a teacher, I would suggest that you need a book which explains everything in more detail - I think MTIP is primarily an exercise book with basic information but not very detailed, although it may have changed in the new edition.

Did I see somewhere that you'd got Take 5 and Pass First Time or was that someone else? If this is the book you're using, then although it's good if you're taking Grade 5 as your first exam, it doesn't indicate the cut-off points for each grade. Hence you're trying to learn about diminished/augmented intervals, dominant/subdominant degrees, chords etc, all of which don't come in until Grade 4.

Can I recommend that you get a little pocket book called First Steps in Music Theory published by the ABRSM. This has a section for each grade, so you would be able to see what you need to learn about for Grades 1,2,3 (they test you on cumulative knowledge), and it would avoid you getting confused over things which you don't need until Grade 4. Like you, I did a grade at a time, step by step, and got a distinction at each grade, which I know you want to try and get! I can recommend not trying to understand things from later grades before you're solid on the grade you're working on at the time

I agree with the above, scale degrees are described, at grade 3, are described as 2nds, 3rds etc. Roman numerals are for chords, not scale degrees

I think you're confusing and trying to amalgamate two separate things here. It's a list, so first of all it's referring to the 'tonic triads' of the major and minor scales, then the next item on the list is 'degrees (number only)'. In other words, it wants you to be able to indicate the 'degrees' of all the notes of the scale, not just the 'degrees' of those notes which appear in the tonic triads.


...teacher! Really, I would highly recommend it. We can help with things like this...

I've got the impression that it's difficult finding a suitable teacher in Germany though

I hadn't considered that, but surely people need to learn theory in Germany, too! After all, someone must have taught Bach that he could spell his name in musical notes if he used a Bb and a B natural!!

Lemontree's signature says that he/she has a distinction at Grade 2 theory, so I'm a bit puzzled at what seems to be a lack of knowledge about things that are in the syllabus for Grade 1 and 2. Degrees of the scale (1st, 2nd, 3rd etc) and tonic triads are covered in the first two grades. We're all very willing to help out with questions on theory, so keep them coming Lemontree, but you seem to be having problems in quite a few areas of the syllabus, not all being that you are going for an exam in a foreign language, and, as Czerny says, if you can find a teacher it would help a lot.

This may be a daft question, but are the books you are using in German or English? Does ABRSM produce material in German - anyone know?

Agree skylark that explaining something to someone else really tests whether you understand it yourself (think you said this in another of Lemontree's threads, but I agree with you)

I imagine whoever it was probably gave up teaching quite a while ago

Yes, and Bach gave up composing. And probably even decomposing, too, by now.

rofl.