I've done this kind of thread a few times, but I've failed this once and want to make sure it goes right and I haven't seen my teacher since uni term finished in May.

Basically I can play all of these pieces comfortably and from memory and I'm happy with them and my teacher was happy with them when she last heard them. But I'm stuck on which to use for the program so can I get some advice and opinions please.

I'm definitely using the Haydn Sonata in Ab.

Then toss up between:
Chopin- Nouvelles Etudes nr 1 in F minor, nr 2 in Db (these are my least perfected ones...
and
Chopin- Berceuse in Db (... but I actually hate this one my teacher made me learn it)

And for the last two pieces its out of:
Sculthorpe- Night Pieces
Debussy- Ce qu'a vu le vent d'ouest
and
Debussy- La Soiree dans Grenade
Bartok- Dances in Bulgarian Rhythm nr 2,4,6

Thank you in advance =]

... I know both the Debussy are beyond DipABRSM but I have been playing these pieces since like 2003 so they are fine. Only reservation about second option is I would like to use the Estampes for LRSM and I dont know if I'd be allowed to use La Soiree twice?

Any regulation questions are best addressed directly to the Board so you can be absolutely sure you get the correct information. I would have thought you can use a piece twice, but I don't know. One thing I do know is that there is a limit (?10%) to the amount of repertoire you can include which isn't on the syllabus.

So, that's a Classical period piece sorted, probably lasting about 14 minutes, let's say you can make it last 15.


Why play a piece you don't like? Play the Etudes: So, that's a Romantic period piece or pieces sorted, lasting maybe 4 1/2 minutes for the pair, at a stretch.


Firstly, if it isn't on the syllabus why not play something that is? Secondly, I believe that there is a requirement to learn new repertoire at each stage and not recycle (I could be wrong), so my strong advice would be to pick the Sculthorpe, lasting perhaps 6 1/2 minutes or the Bartok, which if you play a bit slowly might take 5 minutes for the three.

So you have Haydn 15 minutes, Chopin 4 1/2 minutes and Sculthorpe 6 1/2 minutes: That's only 26 minutes of programming: Even if you play a slower than my estimates you're almost certainly going to be short - what are you planning to do to bring it up to the bare minimum of 31 1/2 minutes (35 minutes - 10%)?

You have no Baroque on your program and even the longest of the Bach will be pushed to take 5 1/2 minutes. Why not play a Bach P&F (just over 4 minutes for the F sharp minor from book 1 for example) and all 6 of the Bartok (9 1/2 or let's say 10 minutes)? That would take your program to about 32 1/2 minutes: Just about ok if you don't play too fast, with a little leeway if you do and a lot of leeway if you play slower than my estimates.

Good luck!

You definitely can not use the soiree for both recitals. sorry

My understanding of the rules is the same as Digbys. I'm sure its in the syllabus.

Have another look at the syllabus: it's here http://www.abrsm.org/resources/performanceIntroduction.pdf

There is no requirement to produce completely new pieces for each level of diploma. You can recycle pieces but the performance standard required will obviously be higher for each successive diploma.

As regards pieces which aren't on the repertoire lists, the rules are that own-choice pieces must be of a comparable standard to those on the lists and that they should be no longer than 7 minutes for DipABRSM, no more than one-third of the total platform time for LRSM, and no more than two-thirds of the total platform time for FRSM.

And I agree with Czerny that you should contact the Board directly with your queries, just to be sure

I really dislike Baroque stuff and I don't play it that well so why include it?

I was looking at stuff on the syllabus to make up the time, and I would still like to use some Debussy, particularly as any teacher I've had has commented that I have a knack for French stuff.

so... Haydn, Chopin then either: Sculthorpe + La puerta del vino or Bartok + Les sons et les parfums

what do you think?

Fair point. On the other hand it is (or seems to be) the norm at Dip to include some Baroque so be prepared to justify the omission in your Viva.


Then you should definitely try to include some!



option 1: approx. 15.00 minutes for Haydn, + 4.30 for Chopin, + 6.30 for Sculthorpe + maybe 3.30 for la puerta is still only 28.30 minutes and each of those estimates is a stretch: 28 or even 27 minutes is more likely.

option 2: 15 + 4.30 + 5 (for 3 Bartok dances) + maybe 3.30 for les sons et parfums is even worse - 28 minutes and more likely less than 27.

Both are good programs up to a point, reasonably balanced and from a variety of periods, but they are simply too short for a Diploma recital and therefore are NOT good programs in context.

Even if you play option 2 but with all 6 of the Bartok you will still only have a program that may last approx. 15 + 4.5 + 10 + 3.5 = 33 minutes. This may be just OK for duration, but may still not be enough, particularly if you play too fast under stress as many of us do. Even without playing too fast, there is only 90 seconds leeway to being too short and I say again, some of my estimates were stretches: Make it 14.00 minutes for Haydn (perfectly reasonable), 3.15 for Chopin (slower is probably too slow), 9.30 for Barkok (including the breaks between the pieces) and 3.10 for either of the Debussy (there are recordings of both that last less than 3.00) and you're in time trouble again with a program that might take less than 30 minutes.

On the plus side omitting a baroque piece and choosing to do all 6 Bartok certainly makes talking points for the program notes and the viva. On the negative side I would worry about the duration of any of your proposed programs.

Keep us posted and good luck!

Could you not just consider fitting in a Scarlatti sonata, it wouldn't take too long to learn one and also solve the time problem

im not doing a viva... i dont think anyway- i passed that section. im having a lesson with my teacher before the closing date and basically if theres a chance of a distinction i'll retake everything but otherwise im just going with the recital.

also ive decided to do some Baroque- you've convinced me; it is a bit short of the time limit.

so...

Bach- P&F G minor (nr 16 from WTK1)- i used this last time so nothing new to learn, cant really afford to learn something new at this point.

then Haydn and the Chopin Etudes- question: F minor and Ab or F minor and Db?

then im using the Sculthorpe as I've had a lot more performing experience with them than the Bartok

then im using the Debussy Bk 1 nr 7- i know its above DipABRSM but it fits so well with the program, I've been playing it for 5 years, I've had masterclasses on it, I used it for year 1 exams at uni and it went down well and I can play it from memory.


In terms of memory I can play the 1st movement of the Haydn, the Chopin F minor etude, the Sculthorpe and the Debussy. The rest of the Haydn and the Bach Prelude should be alright, but I worry about the Bach Fugue and the other Chopin etude. Is it acceptable to mix between memory and score or does it go down better to stick to one?

Whichever 2 you do best - be dispassionately self critical about this: don't just pick the ones you like best!



Fine providing it lasts less than the limit for own choice pieces: 4.30 seems to be generous - you would have to play it ridiculously slowly to exceed 7 minutes!


I don't think it matters too much, BUT check what it says on the syllabus:

First -
"Although there is no specific requirement to perform from memory, you are
encouraged to do so if you consider it will enhance your Recital . . ."

Then -
"Although you are not required to perform from memory, you should consider the
standard convention for your instrument. For example, solo pianists normally perform
recitals from memory . . ."

My interpretation of this is that a pianist should memorize if possible but if not possible, a score is better than a memory lapse. I have certainly seen professionals play solo recitals partly from score & partly from memory so I cannot imagine it will be penalized too much, if at all.

IN terms of timing, I think you should now be comfortable: the Bach should take you about 4.50 or say 5.00 minutes. If the Haydn takes 14, the Chopin about 4.30, the Debussy 4.30 and the Sculthorpe 6.30 you now have a recital length of 33.30. You would be unlikely to drop 2 minutes even if you rush and you have 5 minutes leeway before you get too long.

Most piano programs seem to have 4 composers rather than 5 but I don't see this as a problem, given that it is now a very well balanced program with wide variety of style and period, except that it may make the writing of good program notes in only 1100 words (+/- 10%) more challenging!

Good luck.

After much thought (and whilst planning my own diploma recital program) it crossed my mind to wonder again about the Haydn: I estimated 14 minutes based on a recording with no repeats. Ronald Brautigam's recording on a fortepiano includes all the repeats, and lasts nearly twice as long (27 minutes) on its own so there is clearly more room for maneuver than I had originally allowed for.

Consequently, IF you play the Haydn with all the repeats, 2 of the The Chopin Etudes Nouvelles and the Debussy Vent D'ouest (as you originally suggested) you could have a program of 27.00 + 4.30 + 2.40 = 34.10, which is fine for duration . . . but I would have serious doubts about a program at the diploma level being so heavily weighted in favour of a single piece and using the music of only 3 composers. Also, playing the repeats (which are not essential in Haydn the way they are in Beethoven) spends nearly 14 minutes of 34 doing nothing new to demonstrate your abilities - you would still be better off playing a more varied program without repeats. A final point is that if you were selective about the repeats you might get a perfectly acceptable program with only 4 composers rather than 5: You could play your Bartok (or Sculthorpe) but omit the Bach.

thank you =] that's really helpful, I'll bear it in mind.

now I've gotten reacquainted with the Bach I feel much more comfortable with it than I have playing Baroque before, and I agree that it makes the program a more balanced one.

however dropping it and working out repeats to make the Haydn longer would mean I could almost definitely play from memory.

I think a balanced program is more important than playing from memory. However things played from memory always have that extra something in comparison to when they are played from score.

hmm- I will think about it.