I will shortly be needing to select hymns for the upcoming harvest festival. A while ago I spoke to someone who lamented the fact that this church has used the same harvest hymns for years belonging to a donkey. As the dynamic young organist that I attempt to convince myself of being, I thought it might be quite nice to throw in a few fresher items this time. However, I dunno what!

What do you all do at your harvest festivals? Do you inject new produce onto the harvest table, or stick to ploughing the field and scattering?

Thanks!

Two years ago I was asked to play for a Harvest Festival Service and was faced with the same dilemma. However, on the hymn front the traditionalists won the day EXCEPT.................

As the gifts were being brought to the table, I played "A Quiet Stroll" by Charles Williams. It was the signature tune for many many years for BBC Radio's "Farming Diary".....then at the end of the service, sent them all out to the brisk 6/8 march from Hadyn Wood's Harvest Suite.

It helps being a theatre organ player, ya know!

A few members of the congregation actually spotted the connection......and approved.

I shall watch the this thread with interest

I suppose the 'Archers' theme tune would be appropriate too.
But I have to say at my own church, they still prefer the traditional harvest hymns, like 'Wir Pflugen'. And 'Come ye thankful People , come' . I use the Rawsthorne last verse on that one.

You could confuse the issue and go for Michaelmas, I'm used to having this tune
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSi7pqtpDLw#
with the set of words in this programme
http://www.stdavidscathedralhobart.org/ind...esea-junior-sch
but with rather more verses.

Have you considered "For the fruits of His creation" which has a fine tune (East Acklam) by Francis Jackson? It also fits the tune 'Ar Hyd y Nos'.

The best way to introduce new hymns is to give 'em mostly what they're used to, with the occasional new one thrown in so as not to upset the apple-cart!

Thanks folks, will consider.

There is a hymn in BBC Come and Praise, called 'Now we sing a harvest song.' It's to the tune of Come YTPC, but has more relevant words to today... Maybe this would be an idea! I'll probably get shot...

Sounds like a winner. Few of us plough, scatter, fangle, fettle, scranlett or do whatever was done in Victorian harvest times so an update is called for.
Unable to help because I'm trying hard to still be on holiday for the Harvest service so haven't thought this through yet.

Ah, HG, my favourite of all the modern tunes and words, and such a singable melody that congregations should find easy to pick up. At my last post, this was the last hymn we sang in my farewell service, and with Jackson's little decant over the last line; an excellent recommendation!

For our 'family' harvest service, for a laugh, there is a book called something like 'The World is Full of Smelly Feet' by Mayhew that has a set of words to sing to the tune of Country Gardens, this always went down very well, and became a useful weapon sometimes. The happy clappy brigade really objected to it (not sure if it was the words or the tune?), so would then request that we sang more traditional hymns!

I've seen this one! It's in the orange Hymns Old and New. I think it's in a similar league to Prayer is Like a Telephone...

I suppose you've all got copies of "The Gardeners' Hymn" sung to "All Things Bright and Beautiful"

I think it's in a similar league to Prayer is Like a Telephone...
[/quote]

Hey, what's wrong with Prayer is Like a Telephone?
At least it's more straightforward than "Creator of the rolling spheres, ineffably sublime"!


Health Warning: I'm joking, honest!

Great minds, eh, Monsieur?

And, as for 'Creator of the rolling spheres, ineffably sublime', what gorgeous language!

With you on that one HG, along with 'Consubstantial, coeternal, while unending ages run'., left a deep impression as a child.

How true. The very sound of words like these conjure up emotions completely absent from the mundane phraseology now favoured by the church. But I mustn't get on that hobby horse...

Part of me agrees, but it's like trying to compare Wordsworth and Ted Hughes. Poetry has moved on, and I actually find some of the modern words, e.g "hands that flung stars into space, to cruel nails surrendered" are just as moving in their own way.

Ok, ok! I admit, I too love the poetic language of hymnology. I do sometimes have concerns as to people understanding what they sing, not just blithely singing words, but I think this has more to do with educating people rather than reverting to the lowest common denominator with nice simple words.

Oh, and by the way, I've never had to subject my congregation to 'Prayer is Like a Telephone'! (shhhh, don't tell anyone!)

Yes, well Kendrick did have one good line... Sadly mots of it moves into 'Jesus is a Lightbulb' etc (As SJS could happily be renamed)

Good modern hymns are comparable though;

'Throughout the age Gods people in this Holy Place, have sought to celebrate the Saviours matchless grace' etc

Honourable mention for 'Sun and Moon shall Darkened be, Stars shall fall, and heavens shall flee, Christ will then like lightning shine, all will see his glorious sign'

There's a place for "traditional" hymns with well loved and possibly old fashioned words, and there's a place for more modern stuff, for example Kendrick. People can then choose what they enjoy and sing accordingly.

What annoys me is when new hymn books are produced, with dumbed down words to old favourites. Worst of both worlds.

No one has suggested Bread of Heaven yet. A good one for harvest surely?

"and there's a place for more modern stuff, for example Kendrick"

Kendrick, et al, are surely not in any sense, modern. Rather, they are in the 1960s era, somewhat 'Spinners and Seekers' in ecclesiastical garb.

The church has consistently refused to accept truly modern music, for example, Riff, Rave, Bop, Pop, Heavy Metal etc.

The 'comfortable' style of 'music groups' has isolated the church from the challenges of real contemporary music and therefore denied it the opportunity to speak to young people through their own style of music.

It was ever thus, for in the 1960s church folk peddled Geoffrey Beaumont's music as being modern when, in fact, it was the music of their parents generation i.e. the late 1940s and early 1950s.

For some unidentified reason churches are, mainly, about thirty years behind the youth culture. It has much to do with identifiying youth music as what one knew in one's youth and the erroneous perception that 'modern' music, of itself, attracts people to church.

Barry Williams

... and for (if I may)

Addison's 'the spacious firmament on high'

Addison's piece is by far the better theology and is very fine poetry by any standards.

Barry Williams

[
The 'comfortable' style of 'music groups' has isolated the church from the challenges of real contemporary music and therefore denied it the opportunity to speak to young people through their own style of music.


Barry Williams
[/quote]

Hey, maybe we should do a job swap one Sunday? Modern contemporary church music has moved way beyond just attracting 'youth', if ever this was it's true intention. Modern contemporary church music requires as much skill as any other form of music - I have a great deal of experience of many forms of church music.

I remember once turning up at a local church at the end of a Sunday evening service to practice for a concert, just as the "voluntary" was ending. It was a recording issuing very loudly from speakers and was definitely in one of these contemporary styles (I'm afraid I couldn't tell you precisely which one). Hideous, but at least it wasn't sentimental pap. I understand that this is quite normal for this particular church, though I do not know whether all their music is so contemporary.


It doesn't get it though. Just look at the standard of the arrangements in modern worship song books. Barely competent, many of them - and not just (or even mainly) because of the need to dumb down the harmonic structure to fit the needs of guitarists who can only strum a few simple chords. If the standard really were acceptable, there probably wouldn't be half the issue there is.

I think that one's quite entertaining as the music has enough notes for, 'surr-end-er-ed' which is how I always sing that line.

Try surr- e-en- dered!!

But I like being able to have -ed as a distinct syllabub, eg in the Creed: suff-er-ed and was bur-i-ed

Here was a new one on me yesterday, which I really struggled to find any sense/meaning in at all. Could others enlighten me?

And the horned moon by night
Mid her spangled sisters bright

Its in the English Hymnal isn't it? About the stars, sun and moon all singing their praises.

Hmmm, perhaps, indeed, your interpretation is more correct. Or, maybe, it's more profound to accent the first syllable - su-ur-ren-dered?

"Let us with a gladsome mind!" I love this hymn to bits! A horned moon is a new moon; horned meaning bowed or sickle-shaped and her spangled sisters have to be the stars. One of my favourites, that hymn and so good for harvest time. Has anyone seen the lovely harvest moon in the night sky this week?

Yes, I agree, great hymn and we sing it a lot here at school as the kids do it quite well. The lines just struck me as being a little too poetic for me to find out the meaning, so thanks for the insight, I shall share it with the pupils at the next congers.

Oh, that wasn't the hymn I was thinking about, perhaps The Spacious Firmament on high has similar words.

it does have a bit about the spangled heavens ...

The spacious firmament on high,
With all the blue ethereal sky,
And spangled heavens, a shining frame etc

here's the whole thing if anyone would like it ---
http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-spaciou...mament-on-high/

What about the Haydn version? Sung by a half decent 4 part male voice choir, it's sublime.

Seeing as everybody will be occupied with harvesting, what about "Sheep may safely graze"

A singer friend of mine who is new to the church and to church music was telling me the other night that she was learning the song "about sheep eating grass".

I couldn't for the life of me think of any liturgical music about sheep eating grass.

Now I think I know which song she meant :-)

Harvest festival looms on the horizon and I am considering possible voluntaries.
This thread rightly discusses hymns, but I am less concerned with that this year.
We are promised a visit from the Archdeacon for that day now that ordained clergy are rarer than hen's teeth, and I should hate to drop a clanger in front of 'the Management'.

Anyone care to share their plans for suitable HF voluntaries? Please don't suggest an improvisation around The Archers because I can't impro very well and TA ceased being anything to do with agriculture a long time ago.

Does anything to do with giving thanks fit the bill?

Karg-Elert's Nun Danket, Reger's Dankpsalm?

Since this thread preceded my entry into the hallowed grounds of Viva Organ (the Forum in general), might I be allowed to mention that I recognise now that even in my early school years, perhaps even pre-school, I thrilled at the modulation at the end of the second line of 'Come ye thankful...'.

I think I remember singing it to myself on the school field when I was 7.

I'm assuming there are no votes for "Cauliflowers fluffy and cabbages green"?

I once played that at a funeral , not knowing the man in the box was a butcher !

oooo yes, I couldn't agree more. Hymns for Today's Church has the immortal lines "Oh hear us when we cry to you For those who sail the ocean blue". Which reminds me, I saw a copy on top of the organ last week. I think I need to instigate a Seek and Destroy mission.

The ASB psalms were another problem for me; whilst the language isn't exactly dumbed down, it isn't any more accessible either, so what was the point (apart from hopelessly confusing me as they changed the verse structure of the canticles as well as the words)

My first recourse was to the Werner Icking archive and I couldn't find the Reger there. Shall investigate music shop. (Need something contemplative with which to kick-off) Thanks for suggestions.

School field; was your singing as bad as all that?

Reger's Dankpsalm is here:

http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/5/56...es__Op._145.pdf

Scroll through to page 10.

Ses

But what a shame that we don't! I don't really want to sing about weed killer and pesticcides and canning and freezing and irradiating the produce and nor do I want to extoll the virtues of the combine harvester.

Seriously though, those old words are delightful.

The French don't have Harvest Festival and I miss it - that wonderful smell as you entered the church!
If you are having any of the old harvest favourites in your church this year please sing them out for me too!

Do you mean where it ends on the dominant of the relative minor preceeded by a IIb chord in the home key? Yes, it is thrilling, and finds it's way into quite a few hymns. Of course, I can't think of a single other example now, but I always recognise it when I am singing or playing a hymn, and know that the first time I will have been aware of it was through singing "Come ye thankful people come" at primary school as well.

"All good gifts around us are sent from Heav'n above ...."



Yes! In a way, it's a pity that no-one else knew that I was aware of such things, able to develop what presumably was an innate musical appreciation. Unfortunately, I was too shy to ask questions (had they even occurred to me) and too indolent to practise my way out of a paper bag. Coupled with my Dad being the wrong side of episcopalian, there went my chance to be an organ scholar!

Many thanks for the link, Ses; found it and will keep.
I doubt I shall be playing it this year, though think I've left it a bit late for something so ambitious, given that it is marked 'vivace' and all.

Combing through the music shelf behind the organ, I tidied it beautifully and put everything in alphabetical order; disposed of some Fellowship exam papers from about 1949 and chucked out some choir registers from the mid 1970s.
Didn't find anything I felt I could do to start the Harvest service, though.

"I thrilled at the modulation at the end of the second line of 'Come ye thankful...'.
"

It thrills me too, for it was the very first hymn I sang at Junior School. I remember it well! The modulation to the mediant major is a favourite of C H H Parry, especially in his splendid orchestral works.

Another one that always thrills me is the modulation to the mediant minor in 'Melita' - "Eternal Father, strong to save", a clever piece of harmony by any standard.

Modulations are quite predictable in their emotional effect. It is exploited widely by film music composers. Only Deryck Cooke has really explored this analytically, though all composers know about it.

A failure to realise the emotional effect of modulation leads organists, in particular, to inept and inappropriate re-harmonisation of last verses, frequently with disastrous results. If there was a single thing the fairy would grant me, it would be to ban all last verse re-harmonisations, saving only those written by Thiman, Coleman, Bairstow and Noble and then only for very rare and infrequent use.

Harvest Festival is a wonderful way of appreciating where our food comes from. Those clergy who try to replace "We plough the fields and scatter" with "We plough the fields with tractors" etc., are making points that do not need to be made and are irrelevant in terms of religion. Regrettably, there are plenty who still 'plough' that very dated 1960s path - to no effect whatsoever, save putting their congrgations off.

Barry Williams