That is absolutely the right approach, aim high but be realistic about plan B for if it takes a while to achieve.

I have come to the conclusion that Morton has absolutely no common sense, or knowledge of the world of music. I'm sorry if that comes across as rude, and I will be delighted to change my opinion should he give me grounds to do so.

Emsoboe would very much agree with this sentiment. Like you she knows her actual chances of being in an orchestra are slim. There are other things that are much more possible including theatre work.

The student I spoke to didn't claim that everyone ended up in an orchestra. Most were making their living from music playing in one guise or another.

You know the lovely thing about this forum in general is that there are so many knowledgable people who are able to post intelligently about their personal field of expertise or experience. It's such a shame when someone comes along and feels that they can give their opinion on something they appear to know very little of and purport it as fact
Morton, does the fact that none of the many forum members who either work at, study at or have graduated from conservatoires share your opinions not tell you something?
I think various other people have said most of the things I wanted to, but just out of interest I looked up some employment figures - for 2008/9 (most recent I could find), 98% of graduates from RCM went in to employment or further study. Admittedly this doesn't tell us what jobs they went on to, but it hardly backs up the picture Morton is trying to paint.
I'm sure when I looked round RWCMD we were shown a breakdown of where graduates had headed afterwards, but I'm afraid I can't find it now. As I remember, it was an exceedingly small percentage that didn't go on to some type of music related career.

The thing about this forum is that it allows people to post different opinions.

I agree that there are many more careers that are music related, but I am not sure that anyone needs to have studied at a conservatiore in order to follow them. I would be interested if anyone can suggest a career that can only be done by someone who has been to a conservatoire.

Lots of people at who have studied at a conservatoire go onto further study. In my opinion this doesn't tell you what their career prospects are likely to be at the end of it.

It is fine to aim high, but it is also quite a good idea to have a time limit to plan A. Some people I have met don't seem to, and go on for years hoping.

Which round did the friend get to in the audition?

Why? If you are earning a living on plan B and happy to keep trying why give up? It might happen one day.

Failed the cut for the top 5. There will be more opportunities and she has already held a principal post so is certainly capable. The only point I was trying to make is that you aren't going to get a look in at all unless you train to the highest level and are single minded (or blinkered if you want to be negative about it). Anyone who wants to play in a top orchestra has to believe it is achievable and go for it, probably even taking risks.

That is the problem, they don't earn a living on plan B, they scrape along, just. They can't get a full time job because then they wouldn't have time to practise. This existence can go on for years, and there is still no guarantee that they will get what they are after.


For someone thinking of playing music in a theatre, there is the possibility that they will have to double instruments. I don't know what you need to double, but I do know that players of some instruments do have to, to get work. It might be worth finding out if you are likely to be needing to double and start learning the doubling instrument as soon as possible.

Usually it is possible to work out while at college, what your prospects are. So if you are not the top player of a particular instrument in your college, the chances of getting a playing postition are not in your favour.

On a music course last summer, I met two young people who played the same brass instrument. Both were about to go to the same college. Both "wanted to play in an orchestra" when they left the college. However their chances were slim, as one of the tutors on the music course explained that there are only 14 orchestras in the UK that need their instrument. The conservatoires are producing about 16 players of this instrument every year.

Given that Emsoboe plays 7 instruments (including 5 wind instruments) I don't think doubling would be an issue for her.

morton - why the need to be such a party pooper?

Perhaps someone wants a career in music. Maybe they are good enough to make it into a top orchestra (or a solo perfoming career) or maybe they are not. The point is, they want a career in music - only the most hardened pessimist would give up on the idea of making to the top for fear of failing. If everyone were to base their decisions on money or what others think of them then art wouldn't exist.

I know that I for one am going to devote my entire last year at highschool to music. Sure this means that I miss out on most of the parties and social life, give up science and maths subjects which I enjoy and spend much less time playing sport but if this gives me even a slight chance at making it to a conservatoire it will be absolutely worth it. Even if by a miracle I made it into a conservatoire, I might find that on leaving I cannot enter into a succesful performing career - but how will I ever know that unless I try?

I know you havn't said this outright, but your comments suggest (to me anyway) that I should give up on my dreams and pursue the less enjoyable but probably more lucrative field of science or law. To me, a life lived in caution is a life not worth living. I know I will make a much happier yet less well off piano teacher or whatever than I would a rich scientist.

I will certainly risk "just scraping along" if it means a shot at a successful career in music.

I don't mean to rant - it just bothers me that if I suggest I would like to go overseas to study music I am greeted with 'are you for real' looks whereas if my goal was to get to Harvard I would be encouraged and helped until I got there.

Which instrument do you play? Conservatoire study is about learning to play your instrument to a high standard. Lots of technique. If you are considering going to a conservatoire because you enjoying playing music most when you are in a group with other people, then you will need to think very carefully about going to a conservatiore.

I think that there may be an idea that studying at a conservatoire is like playing in your favourite youth music group all day. It isn't. The best thing to do is to ask someone who has been to a conservatiore what they were expected to do as part of their personal practice, before you make a final decision.

Well Morton hasn't been to one, but if you love music and want to better yourself then it's a brilliant place to be, and yes, it's exactly like being in your favourite music group all day with likeminded people doing your favourite thing.
Go for it!

First of all.. I'd like to apologise if that post came off as agressive. I didn't mean it to sound that way but after reading it today it seems that way to me I've actually found myself wondering what on earth I was thinking with a couple of my posts yesterday - I didn't think I was having a particularly bad day but my posts suggest otherwise

I still stand by what I said - but maybe I was wrong to aim it at you morton.
I play piano (well.. also violin) and I rarely play chamber music. I'm certainly under no illusion that a conservatoire would be like a youth music group (not least of all because I've never really been part of one )

I don't just enjoy playing music - I love PRACTICING music too. I know that unless I make it into a conservatoire it's unlikely that I will be able to spend most of my time practicing on the piano, hence my strong ambition to make it to one. To me - a performing career would just be a bonus.

You should be fine then. Good luck.

You and I see learning to play an instrument in a different way. I am also more interesting in doing the practice than playing in groups, because I know that the higher standard I achieve on my instrument makes the times when I play in groups more interesting and fun.

I have had a discussion about this with someone who used to teach at a top conservatoire. They said that they suspected that some of the students were more interested in playing in groups than studying their instrument, and so didn't do their individual practice to a high enough standard, or do what their teacher had suggested.

It seems to me that if the fees for conservatoire courses are increased then going to one just to have fun playing in groups, is a bit of a waste of money?

Oh, I love my practice! It's mine, it's intensely intense and personal, and if I could do it all day I would - and often have
The groups are the classes - history, harmony, composition, improvisation, chamber music, conducting, orchestras - all done, as I say, with like minded people.

What did you play on your instrument every week in the history class?

Don't be dilly!
It's all music innit?

Well I did say play in groups originally.