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clarijo
QUOTE(barry-clari @ Jan 12 2011, 09:35 AM) *

QUOTE(clarijo @ Jan 12 2011, 09:33 AM) *

Liked the Rue Lepics for a while but found that unless the mouthpiece was in exactly the same position every time, I squeaked - don't know why but they do slope at the sides and I don't know whether it was that.


Possibly : I think it's more likely that you just didn't really get on with them. smile.gif



Yes - know plenty of people who love them (and are prepared to pay the extra ?10 for them too! ohmy.gif laugh.gif !)
barry-clari
QUOTE(clarijo @ Jan 12 2011, 09:47 AM) *

QUOTE(barry-clari @ Jan 12 2011, 09:35 AM) *

QUOTE(clarijo @ Jan 12 2011, 09:33 AM) *

Liked the Rue Lepics for a while but found that unless the mouthpiece was in exactly the same position every time, I squeaked - don't know why but they do slope at the sides and I don't know whether it was that.


Possibly : I think it's more likely that you just didn't really get on with them. smile.gif



Yes - know plenty of people who love them (and are prepared to pay the extra ?10 for them too! ohmy.gif laugh.gif !)


I was underwhelmed considering the extra price. They are good reeds, no question. But, for me, they're not worth the extra pennies!
clarijo
But then it is about what works - Dawn sounds lovely on them (and certainly no squeaks in evidence!!)

My reeds are pricey but they make me sound like a better player than I actually am, playing a better clarinet than I'm actually playing and they are very easy for me to play on - for those three things, I can justify the higher price! smile.gif clarinet.gif
barry-clari
QUOTE(clarijo @ Jan 12 2011, 10:19 AM) *

But then it is about what works - Dawn sounds lovely on them (and certainly no squeaks in evidence!!)


Absolutely smile.gif
louise1712
Thanks Barry and clarijo, trying a range of reeds was the plan anyway, it was just a case of where to start as there are so many diiferent ones. Up until a few weeks ago the Vandorens have been great, but squeaks are appearing where previously I haven't had a problem and I'm not happy with my overall sound. So maybe time to change the reeds and see if that makes a difference.
barry-clari
QUOTE(louise1712 @ Jan 12 2011, 10:37 AM) *

Thanks Barry and clarijo, trying a range of reeds was the plan anyway, it was just a case of where to start as there are so many diiferent ones. Up until a few weeks ago the Vandorens have been great, but squeaks are appearing where previously I haven't had a problem and I'm not happy with my overall sound. So maybe time to change the reeds and see if that makes a difference.


I'm going out in a moment (and will be offline for the rest of the day), but if you post the current strength of reed you're using, that'll help people to offer you advice. Strengths vary from manufacturer to manufacturer (and indeed from reed type to reed type within the same manufacturer).
Devonclari
Even when you find a type of reed you like there will always be good and bad in the box, some you will get to work well with a bit of work and others can be complete duds. I used to use V12's for a long time which worked well for me but I couldn't get on with the Rue Lepic's however lot's of people love them. It depends what works with your mouthpiece, ligature and physiology we are all very different. Have now developed a severe reaction to cane reeds so have had to give up using them but the legere signatures work really well for me however at nearly ?20 each reed it's not something to buy on a whim, however I have now been rotating the same 2 reeds for 6 months and they're still working well
barry-clari
QUOTE(Devonclari @ Jan 12 2011, 10:43 AM) *

Even when you find a type of reed you like there will always be good and bad in the box, some you will get to work well with a bit of work and others can be complete duds. I used to use V12's for a long time which worked well for me but I couldn't get on with the Rue Lepic's however lot's of people love them. It depends what works with your mouthpiece, ligature and physiology we are all very different. Have now developed a severe reaction to cane reeds so have had to give up using them but the legere signatures work really well for me however at nearly ?20 each reed it's not something to buy on a whim, however I have now been rotating the same 2 reeds for 6 months and they're still working well


Very true : I find that in an average box of 10 blue Vandorens, about 6 will work immediately, 3 will work after I do things to them, and 1 goes into the 'might work in the future' pile. Sometimes, a reed won't work properly whatever I do to it, though...
sbhoa
QUOTE(barry-clari @ Jan 12 2011, 10:49 AM) *

QUOTE(Devonclari @ Jan 12 2011, 10:43 AM) *

Even when you find a type of reed you like there will always be good and bad in the box, some you will get to work well with a bit of work and others can be complete duds. I used to use V12's for a long time which worked well for me but I couldn't get on with the Rue Lepic's however lot's of people love them. It depends what works with your mouthpiece, ligature and physiology we are all very different. Have now developed a severe reaction to cane reeds so have had to give up using them but the legere signatures work really well for me however at nearly ?20 each reed it's not something to buy on a whim, however I have now been rotating the same 2 reeds for 6 months and they're still working well


Very true : I find that in an average box of 10 blue Vandorens, about 6 will work immediately, 3 will work after I do things to them, and 1 goes into the 'might work in the future' pile. Sometimes, a reed won't work properly whatever I do to it, though...

I found that the V12s were much more consistent and with the Rico Reserves it was rare to get one that wasn't immediately good..... except for that one box but that's one box in what is probably at least 12 months.
louise1712
QUOTE(barry-clari @ Jan 12 2011, 10:39 AM) *

QUOTE(louise1712 @ Jan 12 2011, 10:37 AM) *

Thanks Barry and clarijo, trying a range of reeds was the plan anyway, it was just a case of where to start as there are so many diiferent ones. Up until a few weeks ago the Vandorens have been great, but squeaks are appearing where previously I haven't had a problem and I'm not happy with my overall sound. So maybe time to change the reeds and see if that makes a difference.


I'm going out in a moment (and will be offline for the rest of the day), but if you post the current strength of reed you're using, that'll help people to offer you advice. Strengths vary from manufacturer to manufacturer (and indeed from reed type to reed type within the same manufacturer).



Thank you Barry, I suppose that is the obvious thing to do laugh.gif

I'm using the standard Vandorens strength 2.5 and have a Vandoren 5RV mouthpiece with Rovner dark lig. The only other reeds I've tried on this set up are the Rico Royals and they weren't very good at all, so any suggestions/advice will be gratefully received smile.gif
sbhoa
I'm looking forward to the time when I've progressed enough to have my whole set up sorted on a more permanent basis.

For now I'll count the trouble of needing to consider changes as a mark of progress.
I think that I've become more aware of how things are working so that I know when something stops feeling right.
Tequila
QUOTE(clarijo @ Jan 12 2011, 10:19 AM) *

But then it is about what works - Dawn sounds lovely on them (and certainly no squeaks in evidence!!)

My reeds are pricey but they make me sound like a better player than I actually am, playing a better clarinet than I'm actually playing and they are very easy for me to play on - for those three things, I can justify the higher price! smile.gif clarinet.gif


blush.gif
QUOTE(barry-clari @ Jan 12 2011, 10:29 AM) *

QUOTE(clarijo @ Jan 12 2011, 10:19 AM) *

But then it is about what works - Dawn sounds lovely on them (and certainly no squeaks in evidence!!)


Absolutely smile.gif


blush.gif blush.gif

I'm not sure what you pay for your reeeds clarijo but mine are about ?22 online for a box of 10 I think ---- Considering it cost me close on ?10 for a pack of 3 Ricos from the shop in town for my daughter I don't think this is too bad (Admittedly hers - basic RICO are only about ?13 on line)

QUOTE(louise1712 @ Jan 12 2011, 11:33 AM) *

QUOTE(barry-clari @ Jan 12 2011, 10:39 AM) *

QUOTE(louise1712 @ Jan 12 2011, 10:37 AM) *

Thanks Barry and clarijo, trying a range of reeds was the plan anyway, it was just a case of where to start as there are so many diiferent ones. Up until a few weeks ago the Vandorens have been great, but squeaks are appearing where previously I haven't had a problem and I'm not happy with my overall sound. So maybe time to change the reeds and see if that makes a difference.


I'm going out in a moment (and will be offline for the rest of the day), but if you post the current strength of reed you're using, that'll help people to offer you advice. Strengths vary from manufacturer to manufacturer (and indeed from reed type to reed type within the same manufacturer).



Thank you Barry, I suppose that is the obvious thing to do laugh.gif

I'm using the standard Vandorens strength 2.5 and have a Vandoren 5RV mouthpiece with Rovner dark lig. The only other reeds I've tried on this set up are the Rico Royals and they weren't very good at all, so any suggestions/advice will be gratefully received smile.gif


Sounds similarish to my set up. I was playing traditional 2.5s on a Vandoren 5RV with a BG standard ligature (similar in design to the Rovner ) I moved up to 3 traditionals initially and then after trying the lepics found them more consistent, more projecting and more clear than the traditionals. Didn't like teh V12s at all!! Sounded stuffy to me.

You're welcome to to one of my Lepics for a couple of quid if you want to try a single reed smile.gif Just let me know. smile.gif
Devonclari
I'm not sure trying a single reed of one type is really a fair test as you may get an exceptionally good one and be forever disappointed afterwards or a duff one and not choose a reed that may be good for you , you would probably need 2 or 3 of the same type to give them a fair trial. Some reeds definitely suit some mouthpieces better than others. For me and my mouthpiece the V12's were much better. Dawn clearly likes her Rue Lepics and Barryclari his traditional vandorens it's a case of what suits you
clarijo
[quote name='DawnF' date='Jan 12 2011, 03:09 PM' post='1021640']
[quote name='clarijo' post='1021575' date='Jan 12 2011, 10:19 AM']



I'm not sure what you pay for your reeeds clarijo but mine are about ?22 online for a box of 10 I think ---- Considering it cost me close on ?10 for a pack of 3 Ricos from the shop in town for my daughter I don't think this is too bad (Admittedly hers - basic RICO are only about ?13 on line)

No it isn't - I only meant that for me, there isn't sufficient difference between the Lepics and the Traditionals to justify the extra cost. My favourite reeds actually cost just over ?25 and I buy them from Reeds Direct - so I'm actually spending more than you are but they really work for me, which justifies the cost. That's the way I put it to my OH, anyway!!! laugh.gif
louise1712
QUOTE(DawnF @ Jan 12 2011, 03:09 PM) *

You're welcome to to one of my Lepics for a couple of quid if you want to try a single reed smile.gif Just let me know. smile.gif


Thanks Dawn, might take you up on that offer some time, and thanks for the advice everyone. Will continue with the box of traditionals for now (only got three left anyway) and see how they go before trying some new reeds. smile.gif


Tequila
QUOTE(Devonclari @ Jan 12 2011, 04:06 PM) *

I'm not sure trying a single reed of one type is really a fair test as you may get an exceptionally good one and be forever disappointed afterwards or a duff one and not choose a reed that may be good for you , you would probably need 2 or 3 of the same type to give them a fair trial. Some reeds definitely suit some mouthpieces better than others. For me and my mouthpiece the V12's were much better. Dawn clearly likes her Rue Lepics and Barryclari his traditional vandorens it's a case of what suits you


Absolutely!!! agree.gif I was just trying to be helpful smile.gif Louise and I are in a band together and I could have given her 1 to try that's all. Another band member asked to buy one off me previously. Loved it so much she asked to buy another and then was going to buy her own box.... Some will like some others others... You need to try a variety but that can be tricky when costs are high and in many places you can only get the basic rico or vandoren individually.

Ideally I would have tried 3 of a number or different reeds but you could only buy them on line and in boxes of 5 minimum but most were boxes of 10. The Rue Lepics work for me but are they my best reed? I don't know....


QUOTE(DawnF @ Jan 12 2011, 03:09 PM) *

QUOTE(clarijo @ Jan 12 2011, 10:19 AM) *




I'm not sure what you pay for your reeeds clarijo but mine are about ?22 online for a box of 10 I think ---- Considering it cost me close on ?10 for a pack of 3 Ricos from the shop in town for my daughter I don't think this is too bad (Admittedly hers - basic RICO are only about ?13 on line)


No it isn't - I only meant that for me, there isn't sufficient difference between the Lepics and the Traditionals to justify the extra cost. My favourite reeds actually cost just over ?25 and I buy them from Reeds Direct - so I'm actually spending more than you are but they really work for me, which justifies the cost. That's the way I put it to my OH, anyway!!! laugh.gif

smile.gif I get mine from Reeds Direct too. Think they offer very good value.
clarijo
QUOTE(louise1712 @ Jan 12 2011, 08:05 PM) *

QUOTE(DawnF @ Jan 12 2011, 03:09 PM) *

You're welcome to to one of my Lepics for a couple of quid if you want to try a single reed smile.gif Just let me know. smile.gif


Thanks Dawn, might take you up on that offer some time, and thanks for the advice everyone. Will continue with the box of traditionals for now (only got three left anyway) and see how they go before trying some new reeds. smile.gif



Howarths have a useful reed comparison chart here, which if you scroll down splits the reeds into four different groups. This might help you decide which ones you want to try first! smile.gif

If you like the Vandoren traditionals and want something similar, I think the Alexander Classiques might be worth a try but be warned - they are expensive!!
Devonclari
Another happy reeds direct customer, their prices and service are really good. You're quite right Dawn you can spend a lot of money trying to find the best reeds. Things were much simpler before the internet when you played whatever mouthpiece came with your clarinet and whatever reeds usually Rico were sold by your local music shop, those were the days! (showing my age now)
clarijo
QUOTE(Devonclari @ Jan 12 2011, 10:02 PM) *

Another happy reeds direct customer, their prices and service are really good. You're quite right Dawn you can spend a lot of money trying to find the best reeds. Things were much simpler before the internet when you played whatever mouthpiece came with your clarinet and whatever reeds usually Rico were sold by your local music shop, those were the days! (showing my age now)



Absolutely! My dad used to buy my reeds (singles, not by the box!) in his lunch hour - they were Vandorens and came in a little white paper packet with blue writing on! Does anyone else remember these or am I just showing my age now?!! laugh.gif
barry-clari
QUOTE(clarijo @ Jan 12 2011, 10:02 PM) *

If you like the Vandoren traditionals and want something similar, I think the Alexander Classiques might be worth a try but be warned - they are expensive!!


They're not cheap : but as reeds go, they're very nice. smile.gif
sbhoa
QUOTE(DawnF @ Jan 12 2011, 08:10 PM) *

smile.gif I get mine from Reeds Direct too. Think they offer very good value.

I usually compare Reeds Direct with Dawkes who are a bit cheaper for some makes.

QUOTE(clarijo @ Jan 12 2011, 10:02 PM) *

Howarths have a useful reed comparison chart here, which if you scroll down splits the reeds into four different groups. This might help you decide which ones you want to try first! smile.gif

That chart put rue Lepics and V12s as being softer than Rico Reserve.
I'd jut begun to find the Rico Reserves too soft but the V12 and Rue Lepics are not at the same strength. Not for me anyway.
louise1712
Have been given a V12 and Rue Lepic to try biggrin.gif Wish it wasn't so late........
barry-clari
QUOTE(louise1712 @ Jan 13 2011, 09:39 PM) *

Have been given a V12 and Rue Lepic to try biggrin.gif Wish it wasn't so late........


Will be interested to know the results of that test, Louise... smile.gif
louise1712
QUOTE(barry-clari @ Jan 13 2011, 09:59 PM) *

QUOTE(louise1712 @ Jan 13 2011, 09:39 PM) *

Have been given a V12 and Rue Lepic to try biggrin.gif Wish it wasn't so late........


Will be interested to know the results of that test, Louise... smile.gif



Will of course let you know Barry smile.gif
IanG
Hearing about all these different reeds is making me wonder what I'll try when I next need to buy reeds.
My current reeds are Mitchell Lurie strength 3 (about ?15 for 10 from Reeds Direct) only because those were the ones my original teacher suggested - but they seem to work well for me..
sbhoa
Grr.....

For the second time I tried to treat myself to the fancy Rico reed case but once again I'm going to have to return it.
Last year I got the Bb reed case but as I was using rico reserve reeds they didn't fit in the case!! Vandorens fit fine but the Ricos were too thick at the bottom to go in. Decided to try the new case which takes all reed sizes but it's too big to fit in my clari case and for just Bb reeds I don't like the design.
Just dropped an email to Rico to ask them about it.
clarijo
QUOTE(IanG @ Jan 14 2011, 10:46 AM) *

Hearing about all these different reeds is making me wonder what I'll try when I next need to buy reeds.
My current reeds are Mitchell Lurie strength 3 (about ?15 for 10 from Reeds Direct) only because those were the ones my original teacher suggested - but they seem to work well for me..



If they are working well, I'd be tempted to just stick with them - you'll know when it's time for a change! smile.gif clarinet.gif
louise1712
QUOTE(louise1712 @ Jan 13 2011, 09:39 PM) *

Have been given a V12 and Rue Lepic to try biggrin.gif Wish it wasn't so late........



The V12, oh it sounded goooooooooooooood wub.gif , the Rue Lepic wasn't as good. Yes, I know I only have one of each to try but the V12 played so well right from the start. Might be investing in a couple more V12's once I've used up the traditionals........ smile.gif
sbhoa
QUOTE(louise1712 @ Jan 14 2011, 06:49 PM) *

QUOTE(louise1712 @ Jan 13 2011, 09:39 PM) *

Have been given a V12 and Rue Lepic to try biggrin.gif Wish it wasn't so late........



The V12, oh it sounded goooooooooooooood wub.gif , the Rue Lepic wasn't as good. Yes, I know I only have one of each to try but the V12 played so well right from the start. Might be investing in a couple more V12's once I've used up the traditionals........ smile.gif

I played V12s for some time before I changed to Rico reserve.
The recent change has been because of a mouthpiece upgrade.
Tequila
Lots of people seem to like V12s. And the description on the Vandoren site sounds gooood... Just didn't suit me at all ... Maybe it was the strength or something as :Louise's set-up is similar enough to mine to suggest it wasn't teh set-up ...

I threw 2 nearly new reeds away last year. Tried them both a couple of times each but just didn't get on with them at all. You could have had them Louise!!! smile.gif

louise1712
QUOTE(DawnF @ Jan 15 2011, 01:59 PM) *

Lots of people seem to like V12s. And the description on the Vandoren site sounds gooood... Just didn't suit me at all ... Maybe it was the strength or something as :Louise's set-up is similar enough to mine to suggest it wasn't teh set-up ...

I threw 2 nearly new reeds away last year. Tried them both a couple of times each but just didn't get on with them at all. You could have had them Louise!!! smile.gif


laugh.gif


Both the V12 and Rue Lepic are strength 2.5 but the V12 sounds so much better for me, I can't get on with the Rue Lepic.
sbhoa
Since I have the reed case to return I'm going ot get more reeds as it will be easier than a refund.
Wondering whether to try the Rico Grand concert select and if so which of the 3 sorts..... maybe the evolution as it appears that they might be like that 2.75 strength I needed in the Reserve.
clarijo
QUOTE(sbhoa @ Jan 15 2011, 04:41 PM) *

Since I have the reed case to return I'm going ot get more reeds as it will be easier than a refund.
Wondering whether to try the Rico Grand concert select and if so which of the 3 sorts..... maybe the evolution as it appears that they might be like that 2.75 strength I needed in the Reserve.


For what it's worth, I tried some of the Rico Grand Concert Select reeds and found my low notes really stuffy - although they are not my regular reed, I did prefer the Rico Reserve. I can't remember which type it was but they were the ones in the grey and black packaging. May well be that they are different for you but I know you are looking for clarity and I think our set ups are quite similar - might be worth bearing in mind...
Tequila
I got a couple of the Grand Concert Select Evolutions free with my clarinet. As I'm not a Rico fan I wasn't too sure on them to start but a free reed is a free reed and not one to waste I tried them out. Was pleasantly surprised!! But they seemed to lack the longevity. I found the Vandoren's both traditional and Rue Lepic much better at lasting. smile.gif Again I know we have different set-ups and preferences generally so could be worth a try for you. To be honest of the Rico reeds I've tried these were best. I just found that their quality didn't seem to last long at all....
clarijo
QUOTE(DawnF @ Jan 15 2011, 08:24 PM) *

I got a couple of the Grand Concert Select Evolutions free with my clarinet. As I'm not a Rico fan I wasn't too sure on them to start but a free reed is a free reed and not one to waste I tried them out. Was pleasantly surprised!! But they seemed to lack the longevity. I found the Vandoren's both traditional and Rue Lepic much better at lasting. smile.gif Again I know we have different set-ups and preferences generally so could be worth a try for you. To be honest of the Rico reeds I've tried these were best. I just found that their quality didn't seem to last long at all....



I discovered quite recently that I like Rico Royals for the low notes but find them difficult to blow on at the top end - there's always a 'but' isn't there?!! laugh.gif
Tequila
QUOTE(clarijo @ Jan 15 2011, 08:27 PM) *

QUOTE(DawnF @ Jan 15 2011, 08:24 PM) *

I got a couple of the Grand Concert Select Evolutions free with my clarinet. As I'm not a Rico fan I wasn't too sure on them to start but a free reed is a free reed and not one to waste I tried them out. Was pleasantly surprised!! But they seemed to lack the longevity. I found the Vandoren's both traditional and Rue Lepic much better at lasting. smile.gif Again I know we have different set-ups and preferences generally so could be worth a try for you. To be honest of the Rico reeds I've tried these were best. I just found that their quality didn't seem to last long at all....



I discovered quite recently that I like Rico Royals for the low notes but find them difficult to blow on at the top end - there's always a 'but' isn't there?!! laugh.gif


Yes laugh.gif My daughter uses Rico Royals and I've used them on Sax and bass clari.

I have to say they are loads better than the basic Rico but not my choice for sound on my clarinet.

The Evolutions were more of what i like in Vandoren tone wise but just didn't have the staying power.
sbhoa
QUOTE(clarijo @ Jan 15 2011, 05:28 PM) *

QUOTE(sbhoa @ Jan 15 2011, 04:41 PM) *

Since I have the reed case to return I'm going ot get more reeds as it will be easier than a refund.
Wondering whether to try the Rico Grand concert select and if so which of the 3 sorts..... maybe the evolution as it appears that they might be like that 2.75 strength I needed in the Reserve.


For what it's worth, I tried some of the Rico Grand Concert Select reeds and found my low notes really stuffy - although they are not my regular reed, I did prefer the Rico Reserve. I can't remember which type it was but they were the ones in the grey and black packaging. May well be that they are different for you but I know you are looking for clarity and I think our set ups are quite similar - might be worth bearing in mind...



QUOTE(DawnF @ Jan 15 2011, 08:24 PM) *

I got a couple of the Grand Concert Select Evolutions free with my clarinet. As I'm not a Rico fan I wasn't too sure on them to start but a free reed is a free reed and not one to waste I tried them out. Was pleasantly surprised!! But they seemed to lack the longevity. I found the Vandoren's both traditional and Rue Lepic much better at lasting. smile.gif Again I know we have different set-ups and preferences generally so could be worth a try for you. To be honest of the Rico reeds I've tried these were best. I just found that their quality didn't seem to last long at all....


Thanks for that feedback.
May play safe and stick with what I know.
Maybe just get a box of V12s 2.5 to go with the Rue Lepics I just bought.
Both are better for me right now than the 2.5 Rico Reserve which I seem to have suddenly outgrown but the 3s are too hard yet.
There isn't a huge amount between the V12 and the Rue Lepic for me at the moment. The Rue Lepic have a bit more depth but I tire a bit sooner with them so maybe do some flitting between the two for now. Will use the V12s for orchestra at least where I need to keep going for longer.
Chances are next time I need to buy new reeds things will have changed again.
Devonclari
I didn't get on with Rico royals but quite like the rico reserves but still preferred the V12's. Any rico reeds I've tried have always had a very short lifespan for me even if they've started out promising
Tequila
QUOTE(Devonclari @ Jan 15 2011, 10:36 PM) *

I didn't get on with Rico royals but quite like the rico reserves but still preferred the V12's. Any rico reeds I've tried have always had a very short lifespan for me even if they've started out promising


I'd agree with that too. Daughter's don't seem to last. Stuck with them for now as teacher likes them, they are cheaper than others and it's still way too early for her to develop her own preference. Think the Ricos are a fraction softer than the Vandorens of the same number strength too... Makes them slightly better for her as a beginner. smile.gif
barry-clari
QUOTE(DawnF @ Jan 16 2011, 12:51 PM) *

Think the Ricos are a fraction softer than the Vandorens of the same number strength too... Makes them slightly better for her as a beginner. smile.gif


They are, and as such they're perfectly serviceable reeds for her. smile.gif
Tequila
QUOTE(barry-clari @ Jan 16 2011, 01:13 PM) *

QUOTE(DawnF @ Jan 16 2011, 12:51 PM) *

Think the Ricos are a fraction softer than the Vandorens of the same number strength too... Makes them slightly better for her as a beginner. smile.gif


They are, and as such they're perfectly serviceable reeds for her. smile.gif

I agree. Bought her a box before the Vat went up.

Re-read my last post and realised it might come across wrong. I meant I've chosen to stick with them for now not that I'm stuck with them as the teacher chose them. Ooops teach me not to rush when I'm posting won't it? blush.gif
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