I am a teacher, but writing this here as would like some help from parents...
I teach a very talented girl and she will be auditioning for the NCO in a few weeks time. She is a really nice girl, works hard and loves playing the clarinet, but doesn't have very much self-belief - not just in her music but also in her school work.
She keeps saying that she doesn't want to do the audition but both myself and her parents think this is because she is scared that she won't get in.
Anyway, she went to the NCO open day where she sat and played with other members/new people and she came home saying it was awful and she isn't going to do the audition. I have a certain amount of sympathy for her - she didnt know anyone else there (everyone else seemed to already have friends) and she found the music difficult and probably felt a bit inept, however I do not feel this open day is a true reflection of how she would find the NCO if she was a member.
I am determined that this girl does well - she is actually one of the most talented students I have ever taught - I have 2 other students in NCO so I know that she can really do this. Her parents are very supportive and are desperate to get her into a good school - they can't afford a private school but there are some very good schools in the area that offer music places. Having NCO on her CV, I feel, will give her an edge that you definitely need in these competitive situations.
Any help from parents of how to deal with his would be much appreciated.
Thank you!
Full Version: Nco - Open Day
Hi Luisa,
May I ask how old she is now, I am guessing school year 5 or 6? what you don't want to do, is force her to go along and her really not feeling comfortable when she gets there so putting her off music completely, if she is so completely against it, it may be worth considering waiting for a year or so, then auditioning if she feels up to it, and has more maturity to help her along.
Honestly, as a parent, if the parental and teacher coaxing wasn't working I'd probably suggest she go along to see how she does, but then look maybe at a lgood ocal orchestra we have a very good county youth orchestra, with maybe a view to trying the NCO or NYO when she was older.
Whilst the NCO on her CV would certainly be a plus point, most secondary schools offering music places or scholarships at the ages of 11 and 13 are looking specifically for musical potential and any school who selects music spaces will always be happy to have a good standard orchestral instrument. Of course if you are looking at specific music schools like Chethams then they are looking for a level of attainment.
It's not an easy one, it's a fine line between active encouragement and pushy.
Good luck
May I ask how old she is now, I am guessing school year 5 or 6? what you don't want to do, is force her to go along and her really not feeling comfortable when she gets there so putting her off music completely, if she is so completely against it, it may be worth considering waiting for a year or so, then auditioning if she feels up to it, and has more maturity to help her along.
Honestly, as a parent, if the parental and teacher coaxing wasn't working I'd probably suggest she go along to see how she does, but then look maybe at a lgood ocal orchestra we have a very good county youth orchestra, with maybe a view to trying the NCO or NYO when she was older.
Whilst the NCO on her CV would certainly be a plus point, most secondary schools offering music places or scholarships at the ages of 11 and 13 are looking specifically for musical potential and any school who selects music spaces will always be happy to have a good standard orchestral instrument. Of course if you are looking at specific music schools like Chethams then they are looking for a level of attainment.
It's not an easy one, it's a fine line between active encouragement and pushy.
Good luck
We never looked at NCO for our daughter and I don't really think it has been a disadvantage not doing so. We know someone who is in one, if they are representative then to be frank I'm very relieved we didn't go down that route.
I agree with Digby that letting her do the audition as an experience would be a good move. Maybe it's the pressure she can't cope with or the fear of failure. If you let her know that it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things if she gets in or not, that it's the audition experience that she's going for, it may help her relax.
Can you look in your area and see what opportunities are on offer for your pupil? We've been very lucky as there have been lots of opportunities ot work with professional orchestras both through schools and seperately.
My daughter loved the Wind band run by our Music Service She was in it for about 18 months and then went to Concert Band.
Hope you find something suitable for your pupil.
Two things to tell quailing kids...
Every time you try for entry to a particular group, you may feel all alone and at the bottom of the heap, because there's nobody else sharing the struggle with you every day...but even though you don't know them yet, there are actually lots of kids out there who are interested in the same things you are, all working for the same things. Some of you will get in this time, and some won't... but either way, it's one more chance to meet the people who will one day be your friends. You'll look back one day and think how strange it was that you didn't know them "back then"!
Secondly, son's guitar teacher once said that every audition and competition is attended by more ears than the judges' ears. If a talented kid misses out through slip-ups or the judges' tastes or criteria, somebody's ears will have noticed their playing, and will remember them...whether or not you make it through this audition, every time you play for good musicians, you are building your future.
As to whether these words of wisdom actually helped, I couldn't say!
Every time you try for entry to a particular group, you may feel all alone and at the bottom of the heap, because there's nobody else sharing the struggle with you every day...but even though you don't know them yet, there are actually lots of kids out there who are interested in the same things you are, all working for the same things. Some of you will get in this time, and some won't... but either way, it's one more chance to meet the people who will one day be your friends. You'll look back one day and think how strange it was that you didn't know them "back then"!
Secondly, son's guitar teacher once said that every audition and competition is attended by more ears than the judges' ears. If a talented kid misses out through slip-ups or the judges' tastes or criteria, somebody's ears will have noticed their playing, and will remember them...whether or not you make it through this audition, every time you play for good musicians, you are building your future.
As to whether these words of wisdom actually helped, I couldn't say!
If she really doesn't want to then maybe you should accept her decision. I can remember adults trying to coax me to do things as a child that I really didn't want to do and wondering why they kept on and on when I'd already made my views clear. You know it would be a good experience and might help her in the future but also she might hate it and really resent you for pushing her. She's tried the open day and didn't like it. It sounds to me as if she's making a fairly informed decision.
I'm glad my son has stuck with his local orchestras even though he could have got into something 'better'. Without the good players the local groups couldn't achieve what they do. He was helped by the top players being there when he wasn't as advanced and is now doing the same for other people. I know there's a lot of prestige attached to things like NCO but they can suck good players from their local area to everyone's detriment.
I'm glad my son has stuck with his local orchestras even though he could have got into something 'better'. Without the good players the local groups couldn't achieve what they do. He was helped by the top players being there when he wasn't as advanced and is now doing the same for other people. I know there's a lot of prestige attached to things like NCO but they can suck good players from their local area to everyone's detriment.
Be patient! Your determination on behalf of your pupil is admirable, but her talent will not evaporate if she does not join NCO and, surely, you can find other ways to nurture that talent until she herself wants to try for NCO or something similar. The best reason for you to push her to audition is because you truly believe she will love every minute of the course if she gets in. If you are not convinced about that, then do not jeopardise her love of the clarinet just because NCO will look good on her CV (or yours (!?))
QUOTE(Halka @ Sep 21 2009, 02:28 PM) 
Be patient! Your determination on behalf of your pupil is admirable, but her talent will not evaporate if she does not join NCO and, surely, you can find other ways to nurture that talent until she herself wants to try for NCO or something similar. The best reason for you to push her to audition is because you truly believe she will love every minute of the course if she gets in. If you are not convinced about that, then do not jeopardise her love of the clarinet just because NCO will look good on her CV (or yours (!?))
Sometimes even when you and they know every minute of it will be loved, it still might not work out. These things can be just as easily spoilt by who you are sharing your desk with
Wonders if that happened to your pupil at the open day......
[quote name='Luisa1981' date='Sep 21 2009, 11:48 AM' post='875676']
I am a teacher, but writing this here as would like some help from parents...
I teach a very talented girl and she will be auditioning for the NCO in a few weeks time. She is a really nice girl, works hard and loves playing the clarinet, but doesn't have very much self-belief - not just in her music but also in her school work.
She keeps saying that she doesn't want to do the audition but both myself and her parents think this is because she is scared that she won't get in.
Anyway, she went to the NCO open day where she sat and played with other members/new people and she came home saying it was awful and she isn't going to do the audition. I have a certain amount of sympathy for her - she didnt know anyone else there (everyone else seemed to already have friends) and she found the music difficult and probably felt a bit inept, however I do not feel this open day is a true reflection of how she would find the NCO if she was a member.
I am determined that this girl does well - she is actually one of the most talented students I have ever taught - I have 2 other students in NCO so I know that she can really do this. Her parents are very supportive and are desperate to get her into a good school - they can't afford a private school but there are some very good schools in the area that offer music places. Having NCO on her CV, I feel, will give her an edge that you definitely need in these competitive situations.
I would suggest (as a parent of ex NCO, NYO etc) that starting in a local windband would be the best way to gain confidence. There are some fantastic ones and repertoire tends to be upbeat and fun and I would suggest she join one where she is at or slightly above the standard needed. Then she can play with confidence and the time not spent worrying about the music can be spent making friends and deciding whether this sort of ensemble playing is for her. Leave playing in a tough ensemble until the desire to do it comes from her. NCO is not really an entry level ensemble, they do have a fantasic time on the courses but you are expected to hit the ground running so try something else first.
Secondly look at a school like Wells Cathedral school which runs a governments specialist scheme (same as Chets, Purcell etc) but within a normal school and will offer substantial bursaries to make up the rest of the fees. They audition on potential and can spot a gifted child a mile off - really worth a try. If she is that good then perhaps that is what she needs, plus the access to all the ensembles they have. There are lots of children in NCO,NYO etc at Wells and the other music schools, so she could then explore those routes. The link should take you to the specialist music (as opposed to school music) application at wells.
http://www.wellscathedralschool.org/wells/...id=195&ed=3
If I had my time again our youngest would have gone there (we didn't know about it) as it was he gained 3 scholarships to a very good local school but Wells would have been better for him I think
I am a teacher, but writing this here as would like some help from parents...
I teach a very talented girl and she will be auditioning for the NCO in a few weeks time. She is a really nice girl, works hard and loves playing the clarinet, but doesn't have very much self-belief - not just in her music but also in her school work.
She keeps saying that she doesn't want to do the audition but both myself and her parents think this is because she is scared that she won't get in.
Anyway, she went to the NCO open day where she sat and played with other members/new people and she came home saying it was awful and she isn't going to do the audition. I have a certain amount of sympathy for her - she didnt know anyone else there (everyone else seemed to already have friends) and she found the music difficult and probably felt a bit inept, however I do not feel this open day is a true reflection of how she would find the NCO if she was a member.
I am determined that this girl does well - she is actually one of the most talented students I have ever taught - I have 2 other students in NCO so I know that she can really do this. Her parents are very supportive and are desperate to get her into a good school - they can't afford a private school but there are some very good schools in the area that offer music places. Having NCO on her CV, I feel, will give her an edge that you definitely need in these competitive situations.
I would suggest (as a parent of ex NCO, NYO etc) that starting in a local windband would be the best way to gain confidence. There are some fantastic ones and repertoire tends to be upbeat and fun and I would suggest she join one where she is at or slightly above the standard needed. Then she can play with confidence and the time not spent worrying about the music can be spent making friends and deciding whether this sort of ensemble playing is for her. Leave playing in a tough ensemble until the desire to do it comes from her. NCO is not really an entry level ensemble, they do have a fantasic time on the courses but you are expected to hit the ground running so try something else first.
Secondly look at a school like Wells Cathedral school which runs a governments specialist scheme (same as Chets, Purcell etc) but within a normal school and will offer substantial bursaries to make up the rest of the fees. They audition on potential and can spot a gifted child a mile off - really worth a try. If she is that good then perhaps that is what she needs, plus the access to all the ensembles they have. There are lots of children in NCO,NYO etc at Wells and the other music schools, so she could then explore those routes. The link should take you to the specialist music (as opposed to school music) application at wells.
http://www.wellscathedralschool.org/wells/...id=195&ed=3
If I had my time again our youngest would have gone there (we didn't know about it) as it was he gained 3 scholarships to a very good local school but Wells would have been better for him I think
I think I would suggest to the girl that she does the audition for experience. This would allow you and the parents to back off in terms of pressure on her to succeed in the audition. I think too much intensity on your part and that of her parents would feel very off-putting, and may be a reason for her reactions. You can still make sure that she is prepared to the best of her ability.
As others have said, she needs to build up confidence, and to be the best in a local group may be a good way forward. Also, singing lessons would also build up her confidence in her own musicality and may be a good route too. Schools are always looking for enthusiastic and accurate singers, and it would help with any aural tests she encounters for the scholarships.
As others have said, she needs to build up confidence, and to be the best in a local group may be a good way forward. Also, singing lessons would also build up her confidence in her own musicality and may be a good route too. Schools are always looking for enthusiastic and accurate singers, and it would help with any aural tests she encounters for the scholarships.
I would suggest (as a parent of ex NCO, NYO etc) that starting in a local windband would be the best way to gain confidence. There are some fantastic ones and repertoire tends to be upbeat and fun and I would suggest she join one where she is at or slightly above the standard needed. Then she can play with confidence and the time not spent worrying about the music can be spent making friends and deciding whether this sort of ensemble playing is for her. Leave playing in a tough ensemble until the desire to do it comes from her. NCO is not really an entry level ensemble, they do have a fantasic time on the courses but you are expected to hit the ground running so try something else first.
Secondly look at a school like Wells Cathedral school which runs a governments specialist scheme (same as Chets, Purcell etc) but within a normal school and will offer substantial bursaries to make up the rest of the fees. They audition on potential and can spot a gifted child a mile off - really worth a try. If she is that good then perhaps that is what she needs, plus the access to all the ensembles they have. There are lots of children in NCO,NYO etc at Wells and the other music schools, so she could then explore those routes. The link should take you to the specialist music (as opposed to school music) application at wells.
http://www.wellscathedralschool.org/wells/...id=195&ed=3
If I had my time again our youngest would have gone there (we didn't know about it) as it was he gained 3 scholarships to a very good local school but Wells would have been better for him I think
[/quote]
Thanks for this - I used to go to Wells as a specialist musician and absolutely loved it so am very pro music schools. My student lives quite close to the Purcell School so I have suggested they go and have a look and see how they feel about it. Wells isn't an option as they understandably don't want her boarding at such a young age. At the moment she is playing in a local youth group but the standard isn't very high - about grade 3ish standard and she is about grade 6! Pehaps there is something between these two I can find....Thanks for the advice!
Secondly look at a school like Wells Cathedral school which runs a governments specialist scheme (same as Chets, Purcell etc) but within a normal school and will offer substantial bursaries to make up the rest of the fees. They audition on potential and can spot a gifted child a mile off - really worth a try. If she is that good then perhaps that is what she needs, plus the access to all the ensembles they have. There are lots of children in NCO,NYO etc at Wells and the other music schools, so she could then explore those routes. The link should take you to the specialist music (as opposed to school music) application at wells.
http://www.wellscathedralschool.org/wells/...id=195&ed=3
If I had my time again our youngest would have gone there (we didn't know about it) as it was he gained 3 scholarships to a very good local school but Wells would have been better for him I think
[/quote]
Thanks for this - I used to go to Wells as a specialist musician and absolutely loved it so am very pro music schools. My student lives quite close to the Purcell School so I have suggested they go and have a look and see how they feel about it. Wells isn't an option as they understandably don't want her boarding at such a young age. At the moment she is playing in a local youth group but the standard isn't very high - about grade 3ish standard and she is about grade 6! Pehaps there is something between these two I can find....Thanks for the advice!
Thank you for all of your help - some really helpful comments. The girl is in Year 5 and doesn't live in a great area - her parents are concerned about sending her to the local comprehensive ( I think a lot of parents would be) for various reasons so I am trying to help them in every way to try and get her into a good secondary school. Of course I realise that having NCO on her CV may not even be looked at, but it's certainly better than nothing! I'm not some NCO obsessive and think it's the be all and end all - it just seems ideal for her, and other kids I've taught have loved it - perhaps she'll be the exception! I certianly wouldnt suggest she did it just to look good on her CV (or mine, as one helpful person suggested!). The main priority is she enjoys it and having it on the CV is a bonus that might give her a chance in the future - you never know! Perhaps her parents strong concerns about her chooling are adding a pressure to the situation that she just doesn't understand at this stage, so maybe this is why she is having a negative reaction. Mind you - she has a negative reaction to a lot of things because she's worried she won't succeed, so who knows!
At the moment she plays in the local ensemble for 8-12 year olds but the average standard is about grade 3 - she is grade 6 so, as a teacher, I think it would be great for her to be with other children of a good standard. I can't find anyting else in the area but perhaps there is something similar to NCO that people know of?
There is such a fine line between being encouraging and pushy and I would hate to overstep it, however, her parents, her class teacher and myself believe she says she doesn't want to do things because she thinks she can't. She is super talented and just won't believe it so I'm hoping a possible exceptance into NCO would boost her confidence a bit. Both myself and her parents think she should turn up and have a go - I just can;t help thinking it will be good for her to work on some places and play them to someone. Whether she gets in or not at least she'll have had an experience of giving something a try. Her mum was saying that if she listened to her and let her not do things she said she didn;t want to, her life would consist of playing on the Ninteno everyday after school and at the w/e's - eg she says 'no' to everything but then does them and enjoys herself....
If your child was in a position of going to a school with bad results and quite rough, and at the same time resisted doing anything because of lack of confidence, would you still do everything you could to help them go to somewhere better, or just go with what they want? It's a tough one! At the end of the day I'm not her parents so it's down to them but music seems her really good chance to get into a nice school in Year 7 so as her music teacher I really want to help.....
At the moment she plays in the local ensemble for 8-12 year olds but the average standard is about grade 3 - she is grade 6 so, as a teacher, I think it would be great for her to be with other children of a good standard. I can't find anyting else in the area but perhaps there is something similar to NCO that people know of?
There is such a fine line between being encouraging and pushy and I would hate to overstep it, however, her parents, her class teacher and myself believe she says she doesn't want to do things because she thinks she can't. She is super talented and just won't believe it so I'm hoping a possible exceptance into NCO would boost her confidence a bit. Both myself and her parents think she should turn up and have a go - I just can;t help thinking it will be good for her to work on some places and play them to someone. Whether she gets in or not at least she'll have had an experience of giving something a try. Her mum was saying that if she listened to her and let her not do things she said she didn;t want to, her life would consist of playing on the Ninteno everyday after school and at the w/e's - eg she says 'no' to everything but then does them and enjoys herself....
If your child was in a position of going to a school with bad results and quite rough, and at the same time resisted doing anything because of lack of confidence, would you still do everything you could to help them go to somewhere better, or just go with what they want? It's a tough one! At the end of the day I'm not her parents so it's down to them but music seems her really good chance to get into a nice school in Year 7 so as her music teacher I really want to help.....
QUOTE(Halka @ Sep 21 2009, 02:28 PM)
Be patient! Your determination on behalf of your pupil is admirable, but her talent will not evaporate if she does not join NCO and, surely, you can find other ways to nurture that talent until she herself wants to try for NCO or something similar. The best reason for you to push her to audition is because you truly believe she will love every minute of the course if she gets in. If you are not convinced about that, then do not jeopardise her love of the clarinet just because NCO will look good on her CV (or yours (!?))
Superb advice! I thought her talent would simply disappear if she doesn't get into the NCO (!) and I have 100% belief that she would enjoy herself on a course otherwise I wouldn't have suggested it in the first place. She may hate it though, but I always think it's worth giving things a try....Maybe she'll want to do it when she's a bit older.
QUOTE(Banjogirl @ Sep 21 2009, 02:23 PM)
I know there's a lot of prestige attached to things like NCO but they can suck good players from their local area to everyone's detriment.
I don't think this is true, NCO courses only happen in the holidays - once a year for younger kids! So the members play in their local ensembles as WELL!
QUOTE(violincjj @ Sep 22 2009, 07:34 AM)
QUOTE(Banjogirl @ Sep 21 2009, 02:23 PM)
I know there's a lot of prestige attached to things like NCO but they can suck good players from their local area to everyone's detriment.
I don't think this is true, NCO courses only happen in the holidays - once a year for younger kids! So the members play in their local ensembles as WELL!
Yes she could quite easily stay in her local ensemble as this is every week in term time, NCO is holidays.
Hi Luisa, does the Purcell school run any community orchestra's that she could attend? even if they don't they are probably a good source to ask about other suitable opportunities.
You might even convince them to think about setting one up as it is running community opportunities like that can help them with any 'charitable' status review that they might encounter in the future.
One of our local private schools runs a free orchestral day for players g2 and up once a year, provide them lunch and do a parents concert at around 3pm. Always great fun....
Do you have a local music service, our county has thriving youth orchestra's for all abilities and I would be very surprised if there is not something similar near you.
Although honestly at this age, she is still very young particularly for a grade 6 girl and she probably felt that at the time of the open day, I honestly think she will feel better about it when she gets closer to secondary school, kids change so much in year 6 in their outlook on life.
I do sympathise with you with the changing schools thing though. We are hoping for one of our local grammar schools for my youngest who takes the test at the beginning of November it's such a stressful time all around.
You might even convince them to think about setting one up as it is running community opportunities like that can help them with any 'charitable' status review that they might encounter in the future.
One of our local private schools runs a free orchestral day for players g2 and up once a year, provide them lunch and do a parents concert at around 3pm. Always great fun....
Do you have a local music service, our county has thriving youth orchestra's for all abilities and I would be very surprised if there is not something similar near you.
Although honestly at this age, she is still very young particularly for a grade 6 girl and she probably felt that at the time of the open day, I honestly think she will feel better about it when she gets closer to secondary school, kids change so much in year 6 in their outlook on life.
I do sympathise with you with the changing schools thing though. We are hoping for one of our local grammar schools for my youngest who takes the test at the beginning of November it's such a stressful time all around.
I know lots of people who've given up their local groups for the sake of 'better' holiday ones, or better weekly ones further afield.
In our area there aren't age limits on music centre groups. they're done on ability. I know some areas group more by age which for instrumental progress seems a bit bonkers. I know children might be with players much older than themselves but it's not as if they're spending all day every day together, only their orchestra time!
In our area there aren't age limits on music centre groups. they're done on ability. I know some areas group more by age which for instrumental progress seems a bit bonkers. I know children might be with players much older than themselves but it's not as if they're spending all day every day together, only their orchestra time!
QUOTE(Luisa1981 @ Sep 21 2009, 11:34 PM)
QUOTE(Halka @ Sep 21 2009, 02:28 PM)
Be patient! Your determination on behalf of your pupil is admirable, but her talent will not evaporate if she does not join NCO and, surely, you can find other ways to nurture that talent until she herself wants to try for NCO or something similar. The best reason for you to push her to audition is because you truly believe she will love every minute of the course if she gets in. If you are not convinced about that, then do not jeopardise her love of the clarinet just because NCO will look good on her CV (or yours (!?))
Superb advice! I thought her talent would simply disappear if she doesn't get into the NCO (!) and I have 100% belief that she would enjoy herself on a course otherwise I wouldn't have suggested it in the first place. She may hate it though, but I always think it's worth giving things a try....Maybe she'll want to do it when she's a bit older.
OK! No need for sarcasm. I'm sorry if I got the wrong impression from your original post... You did seem very focussed on NCO, when it is not, I think, the be all and end all.. Ah, well.
Since you already have two pupils who have succeeded with NCO auditions why not get them all together to play trios, or quartets if you play too. That will be good experience for all of them and will enable your pupil to discover she is comfortable around other NCO level players.
I do sympathise, especially with the parents here, as my own daughter sounds very like your pupil temperamentally. In her case I made the mistake of sending her off on a (non-auditioned) summer school when she was very young and she loathed it. For the 5 years since, she has refused, until very recently, to consider any residential courses and certainly not anything involving an audition. She probably will audition (a little reluctantly) for the National Youth Recorder Orchestra this autumn but only feels comfortable about this, I think, because she has had several years of playing at recorder meetings, and getting to know some of the individuals involved in NYRO as tutors or participants. I did not want you to make the same mistake as I did by pushing too soon.
If the girl wants a music scholarship then surely a grade 6 certificate would be enough for her CV. I can understand NCO might look good on a Grade 3 or below when lots of children could be at that standard.
I think as parents we would do everything we could to ensure our child got into an appropriate school. Personally I wouldn't want it to be anything pressured or stressful for them. Believe me I know what it's like living in an area where good secondary education is pretty scarce.
Our daughter, 14, has had three auditions recently. On each occassion from the outset we made no big deal about it. We recognised that all of them would bring benefits to her development. We also looked at what she had at the moment and recognised there wouldn't be a huge loss if she didn't get in. We didn't involve her teachers in prep for the audition, too short a timescale, though they did know what was happening. Happily daughter got accepted outright on two of the courses and the other she is sort of a half member (waiting a full place as there is no desk). I think it might be too late for you to create this mindset now. Maybe leave it a year and come back to it with less pressure in a years time (I'm not saying that you were attempting to pressure her).
I don't know where you are in the country but often specialist music schools have outreach programs as do Conservatoires. These usually happen on a weekly basis after school and are often aimed at younger children. Sometimes there are Masterclasses on weekends. RNCM are running a Woodwind Weekend in October, it's free, there are other events across the country. BBC Blast is happening at the moment too.
I'd also approach the local music service and see what they have on offer. There are all sorts of musical projects in our area spanning ages. There are several local music services that run colaberative projects and take turns to host them usually with one of the Orchestras. These might be a one day or span several weeks. Sometimes taking part in these events require an adult present and I suppose that depends on whether the parents would be willing to sacrifice their weekend. I think the confidence building is going to be down to them to deal with.
I think as parents we would do everything we could to ensure our child got into an appropriate school. Personally I wouldn't want it to be anything pressured or stressful for them. Believe me I know what it's like living in an area where good secondary education is pretty scarce.
Our daughter, 14, has had three auditions recently. On each occassion from the outset we made no big deal about it. We recognised that all of them would bring benefits to her development. We also looked at what she had at the moment and recognised there wouldn't be a huge loss if she didn't get in. We didn't involve her teachers in prep for the audition, too short a timescale, though they did know what was happening. Happily daughter got accepted outright on two of the courses and the other she is sort of a half member (waiting a full place as there is no desk). I think it might be too late for you to create this mindset now. Maybe leave it a year and come back to it with less pressure in a years time (I'm not saying that you were attempting to pressure her).
I don't know where you are in the country but often specialist music schools have outreach programs as do Conservatoires. These usually happen on a weekly basis after school and are often aimed at younger children. Sometimes there are Masterclasses on weekends. RNCM are running a Woodwind Weekend in October, it's free, there are other events across the country. BBC Blast is happening at the moment too.
I'd also approach the local music service and see what they have on offer. There are all sorts of musical projects in our area spanning ages. There are several local music services that run colaberative projects and take turns to host them usually with one of the Orchestras. These might be a one day or span several weeks. Sometimes taking part in these events require an adult present and I suppose that depends on whether the parents would be willing to sacrifice their weekend. I think the confidence building is going to be down to them to deal with.
As a further thought, you might contact burl, a parent on this forum, by PM for his advice. As I recall, his son is age 10 or 11, is working for Grade 8 clarinet, having passed Grade 6 in the spring, and he played in the Under 11 NCO orchestra last summer. He also lives in Hertford so perhaps not so far from your pupil?
If they're not far from the Purcell School, then they must be near quite a few schools which have music scholarships - I live in this area too - and some of these scholarships can be very worthwhile in monetary terms. Could she also sit an academic scholarship?
QUOTE(Susie @ Sep 22 2009, 06:53 PM)
If they're not far from the Purcell School, then they must be near quite a few schools which have music scholarships - I live in this area too - and some of these scholarships can be very worthwhile in monetary terms. Could she also sit an academic scholarship?
Thanks for this Susie - they are in North London so it would be about an hours drive or something to Purcell but if they felt it was the right thing to do they'd do it! If you have time could you let me know of any schools that offer music scholarships (they would have to be very generous ones)?
Hi Luisa1981!
My daughter has just gone into year 6 and I cannot believe how much she has grown up over the last 12 months. We have just started discussing music scolarships and she has decided that it's worth a go, even if she doesn't get one. I doubt she would have had the maturity to see this a year ago.
You and your pupil's parents are definitely right to be thinking of a year 7 strategy, but during the coming year I would concentrate on general confidence building - it doesn't just have to just be music - sport, social activities, anything really, and slowly with a bit of cheeful bribery I would suggest.
To a 9/10 year old a National children's orchestra might sound quite scary. My daughter did a Musicale summer course with some of her friends. - although this was a bit below her ability level, this gave her a huge confidence boost, was fantastic fun, and got her used to mucking in with a crowd of children she didn't know. Now, next year she's happily going to a high powered residential course.
Also, what about local music festivals? I had to bribe my daughter with promises of cinema trips and itunes to get her to participate with a piano duet last year - she didn't win, which emphatically was not the point of doing it (they came 4th out of 5!!) but she learnt so much from the experience that she's really keen to do it again this year. Perhaps a duet with a friend to take away some of the fear factor?
With any luck by the start of the next academic year your pupil will be more able to understand how special she is to be so talented and how her musical ability could help her in the future.
Hope things work out!
My daughter has just gone into year 6 and I cannot believe how much she has grown up over the last 12 months. We have just started discussing music scolarships and she has decided that it's worth a go, even if she doesn't get one. I doubt she would have had the maturity to see this a year ago.
You and your pupil's parents are definitely right to be thinking of a year 7 strategy, but during the coming year I would concentrate on general confidence building - it doesn't just have to just be music - sport, social activities, anything really, and slowly with a bit of cheeful bribery I would suggest.
To a 9/10 year old a National children's orchestra might sound quite scary. My daughter did a Musicale summer course with some of her friends. - although this was a bit below her ability level, this gave her a huge confidence boost, was fantastic fun, and got her used to mucking in with a crowd of children she didn't know. Now, next year she's happily going to a high powered residential course.
Also, what about local music festivals? I had to bribe my daughter with promises of cinema trips and itunes to get her to participate with a piano duet last year - she didn't win, which emphatically was not the point of doing it (they came 4th out of 5!!) but she learnt so much from the experience that she's really keen to do it again this year. Perhaps a duet with a friend to take away some of the fear factor?
With any luck by the start of the next academic year your pupil will be more able to understand how special she is to be so talented and how her musical ability could help her in the future.
Hope things work out!
QUOTE(barncottagecat @ Sep 22 2009, 11:04 PM)
Hi Luisa1981!
My daughter has just gone into year 6 and I cannot believe how much she has grown up over the last 12 months. We have just started discussing music scolarships and she has decided that it's worth a go, even if she doesn't get one. I doubt she would have had the maturity to see this a year ago.
You and your pupil's parents are definitely right to be thinking of a year 7 strategy, but during the coming year I would concentrate on general confidence building - it doesn't just have to just be music - sport, social activities, anything really, and slowly with a bit of cheeful bribery I would suggest.
To a 9/10 year old a National children's orchestra might sound quite scary. My daughter did a Musicale summer course with some of her friends. - although this was a bit below her ability level, this gave her a huge confidence boost, was fantastic fun, and got her used to mucking in with a crowd of children she didn't know. Now, next year she's happily going to a high powered residential course.
Also, what about local music festivals? I had to bribe my daughter with promises of cinema trips and itunes to get her to participate with a piano duet last year - she didn't win, which emphatically was not the point of doing it (they came 4th out of 5!!) but she learnt so much from the experience that she's really keen to do it again this year. Perhaps a duet with a friend to take away some of the fear factor?
With any luck by the start of the next academic year your pupil will be more able to understand how special she is to be so talented and how her musical ability could help her in the future.
Hope things work out!
Hi - thanks for this - it makes a lot of sense and rather than myself and her parents worrying so much about boosting her confidence hopefully it will just happen with time. She did a local festival and loved it - she got first prize in all of her classes and was the happiest girl alive - but again that took a lot of effort to get her there!
QUOTE(Luisa1981 @ Sep 21 2009, 11:48 AM)
I am a teacher, but writing this here as would like some help from parents...
I teach a very talented girl and she will be auditioning for the NCO in a few weeks time. She is a really nice girl, works hard and loves playing the clarinet, but doesn't have very much self-belief - not just in her music but also in her school work.
She keeps saying that she doesn't want to do the audition but both myself and her parents think this is because she is scared that she won't get in.
Anyway, she went to the NCO open day where she sat and played with other members/new people and she came home saying it was awful and she isn't going to do the audition. I have a certain amount of sympathy for her - she didnt know anyone else there (everyone else seemed to already have friends) and she found the music difficult and probably felt a bit inept, however I do not feel this open day is a true reflection of how she would find the NCO if she was a member.
I am determined that this girl does well - she is actually one of the most talented students I have ever taught - I have 2 other students in NCO so I know that she can really do this. Her parents are very supportive and are desperate to get her into a good school - they can't afford a private school but there are some very good schools in the area that offer music places. Having NCO on her CV, I feel, will give her an edge that you definitely need in these competitive situations.
Any help from parents of how to deal with his would be much appreciated.
Thank you!
Please encourage her to go for it!! My daughter tried twice to get into NCO before she was accepted. She is now in Main Orchestra and loves it. The problem now is what to do next!! All local and county orchestras pale into nothing compared with NCO. Your pupil will love it. She will also have her share of melt downs...the 'purple patches' are horrid and cause huge stress, but for an able musician there is nothing like it. Get her to audition at all costs.
Violinma
Please encourage her to go for it!! My daughter tried twice to get into NCO before she was accepted. She is now in Main Orchestra and loves it. The problem now is what to do next!! All local and county orchestras pale into nothing compared with NCO. Your pupil will love it. She will also have her share of melt downs...the 'purple patches' are horrid and cause huge stress, but for an able musician there is nothing like it. Get her to audition at all costs.
Violinma
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Really does depend on your local orchestras.
Our county one is definitely better than NCO Main which our youngest was in and several of the wind ensembles gave him a much better work out. Their residentials are also as good. However I would recommend NCO for the joy of making orchestral music with your peers rather than being the youngest in the section which good children often are in local and regional ensembles. Don't assume that if something has a 'national' in the name that everything afterwards is downhill . . although having said that I would probably say NYO is the exception as they are quite superb.
Sorry to interrupt your conversation. I am new here. This is the forum for parents, is it?
I have read 25 posts about something/somewhere called NCO, not one of them tells me what the letters stand for. Is it a special secret?
You know, this in itself would set warning bells ringing in my ears if anyone mentioned it in the context of any of my children.
But I guess that is most unlikely as I don't even know what it is, so I needn't worry about what it is you are all talking about.
I have read 25 posts about something/somewhere called NCO, not one of them tells me what the letters stand for. Is it a special secret?
You know, this in itself would set warning bells ringing in my ears if anyone mentioned it in the context of any of my children.
But I guess that is most unlikely as I don't even know what it is, so I needn't worry about what it is you are all talking about.
QUOTE(MusicNanny @ Oct 16 2009, 12:53 PM)
Sorry to interrupt your conversation. I am new here. This is the forum for parents, is it?
I have read 25 posts about something/somewhere called NCO, not one of them tells me what the letters stand for. Is it a special secret?
You know, this in itself would set warning bells ringing in my ears if anyone mentioned it in the context of any of my children.
But I guess that is most unlikely as I don't even know what it is, so I needn't worry about what it is you are all talking about.
NCO = national childrens orchestra
NYO = national youth orchestra
QUOTE(MusicNanny @ Oct 16 2009, 12:53 PM)
Sorry to interrupt your conversation. I am new here. This is the forum for parents, is it?
I have read 25 posts about something/somewhere called NCO, not one of them tells me what the letters stand for. Is it a special secret?
You know, this in itself would set warning bells ringing in my ears if anyone mentioned it in the context of any of my children.
But I guess that is most unlikely as I don't even know what it is, so I needn't worry about what it is you are all talking about.
It is "National Children's Orchestra of Great Britain", aka NCO. The website is
http://www.nco.org.uk
Sorry, Little Elf, for my repeating the same info. I did not see your reply.
QUOTE(barncottagecat @ Sep 22 2009, 11:04 PM)
My daughter has just gone into year 6 and I cannot believe how much she has grown up over the last 12 months.
My daughter did a Musicale summer course - this gave her a huge confidence boost, was fantastic fun, and got her used to mucking in with a crowd of children she didn't know. Now, next year she's happily going to a high powered residential course.
Also, what about local music festivals?
With any luck by the start of the next academic year your pupil will be more able to understand how special she is to be so talented and how her musical ability could help her in the future.
I couldn't believe it when I read this post as it was exactly what I was about to say. My 10 yo daughter has changed dramaticallly in the last year. She used to be quiet, shy, terrified of new situations, refused to try anything etc.
This year she has been to Musicale, agreed to the NCO audition (which is on Friday), wants to go to the Benenden course, can't wait to go to Musicale again, wants to enter all possible classes at the music festival, been made house captain at school etc. I would never have believed the transformation! I am now so glad that I didn't push her, just gently enouraged her until the time was right.
Reading about how good everyone is who is in the NCO/auditioning I am now absolutely petrified that this might be one step too far. But the audition will be a valuable learning experience and I am sure she will enjoy it anyway.
I am sure your pupil will become more confident with a little more time.
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