I've been wanting to play with other people for a while but all the orchestras I've found ask for grade 8 and as I'm only about grade 3 it's going to be a while!

Now I've found a string orchestra who say I can come to a rehearsal and give it a go (although the music may prove a bit tricky for me) I was so excited when i discovered it - but now the first rehearsal is looming (Friday) and I'm beginning to think it wasn't such a good idea.

I shall still go and give it my best shot, but suspect i shall be shaking so hard I will have problems playing!

Wish me luck!

Have fun, and the very best of luck!

Terrifying as the idea is - and I can see that it would be - remember that we all have to start somewhere. I waited until I had grade 8 before starting to play regularly with others, and was scared stiff on joining other recorder players for ensemble work even later than that, and all for the simple reason that I was used to learning and playing music by myself, or with my sympathetic husband, accompanist or teacher to chum me - all of whom were well used to covering up my mistakes. I don't count well, and it is a completely different skill, learning to play in a group, hold one's place in the music, come in on time, adjust tuning to others. and come off on time. Technically, I'm probably one of the more advanced players in the group I've joined, but as far as those skills go, I'm waaay down the list. Starting now, early on in the learning process, means that you will be getting up to speed at the same time as the rest of your playing is developing: you'll learn the skills side by side, and not have a huge and mortifyingly embarrassing gap in your musical education at a later stage. You'll have the benefit too of being a little protected by numbers: I noticed at our last recorder rehearsal that one very new lady chose to sit and follow the music as we played to begin with, just to learn how to come in and keep up with what's happening - once we were playing small chunks of the music, she joined in. I really wish I'd had the chance of ensemble playing much much earlier on - I'd be at least four times the musician I am now if I had not let that gap in my knowledge widen like that.

So - go for it, have some fun! .

Well I've just got in from my first experience in an orchestra and I enjoyed it enormously. I actually played a few notes and managed to finish at the same time as most other players. So I say go for it.

Good luck.

Just give it a go. I went to an orchestra rehersal a few months ago and managed okay. Even if you can't play all of the notes, it doesn't matter. I helps with your sightreading and it's great being with other musicians.

Give it a go, you never know how much fun you might end up having

Grade 3 standard is good - nothing to be ashamed of at all.

I say go for it. You may be at the back for quite a while but if you don't go then you won't get better and will never end up at the front of your section someday.

In one of my orchetsras some quite young, 13-15 yr olds have joined and are not really good enough but they will gain experiance and be as good as everyone else in a year's time. Same will happen with you.

Totally agree,
I joined an orchestra back in April/May this year, at grade 4 and a half standard.
my experience was MORTIFYING, I felt I wanted to chuck the violin in the fire as I was total rubbish, sat there like a lemon throughout rehearsal (2 and a half hours of it), played 5 notes at the most in that time, 99% of the times I didn't know what key we were in or at what time signature and at least a dozen times lost my place.

Now, 4 months on (well, 2 and a bit as they had 6 weeks break for the summer), where am I???
am still TOTAL rubbish! I still only play maybe 5 or 6 bars in the whole 2 and a half hours, we are playing stuff with LOTS of accidentals and if I go out of 1st position I can't sight read (well I can read but don't know immediately where the notes are on the violin, I have to think about it, by the time I though about it they are a page in front of me!!!)

Is it that bad? YES! Although the others in the orchestra are very friendly and don't mind me being there and even look surprised when I say I won't play in the next concert, I sit right at the back of the string section by myself.

So, after this story you may think: OK, you have put me off, I WON'T GO NOW

NOOOOOOOOOOO, I urge you to go and keep going every week as it will only help.

for example: I now always know which key signature and time signature we are in, I may not play but I KNOW what I am supposed to play, whereas before I didn't even know what I was supposed to play.

I now play 5 or 6 bars in reahersal whereas before I used to play 5 notes.

So even though minor, I can see an improvement and like others say: you've got to start from somewhere!!

I'll stick with it and one day when I can play throughout the whole rehearsal if someone new joins I'll ask them to sit next to me as I want to encourage them to stick with it and keep going 'like I did!'

Thank you all for your words of much needed encouragement, although having looked at a map I'm now more worried about finding my way there than I am about playing!

I'm hoping to sit at the back but as I have no idea how big the orchestra is it may not be as far back as i would like!

My daughter (age 7) has just joined a string orchestra - she only has to play open strings. They only have two violas and I would love to join in but I think I'm a bit big! I hope I'm as 'buzzy' after my attempt as she has been after her 2 rehearsals. She was showing me what a conductor does today!

I did play a bit in the school orchestra (cello) and briefly on the viola in another orchestra, but it was a very long time ago. I'm hoping that some of the 'how to play in an orchestra' type knowledge comes back to me, leaving me with the 'how the heck do i play that note/key/rhythm' bit to worry about!

If it's any encouragement I was once told by a violist with the Halle that when she joined she spent the first few rehearsals bowing above the strings. Then progressed to open strings and eventually a few actual phrases!!

Just remember all the basics about orchestral playing. Inside players turn pages and mark up parts as well as playing the bottom line when it divides. Also try and make sure your bowing is the same as the principal's.

If you make sure of all these things you will have a great time.

that's right,


BUT on the only occasion I sat on the inside I DID NOT turn pages (as lost altogether where we were supposed to be), nor did any markings nor could play the bottom line (could not play at all!)
thankfully I was sitting next to a very experienced and understanding woman who is also a violin teacher so she knows too well what 'adult beginners' can be like

becuase of all the things inside players have to do I always try and sit on the outside, even if it means dropping back a desk or 2.
For example recently i could have sat inside 2nd desk but opted for outside 4th desk.

At the risk of sounding really stupid - which is the inside and which the outside (ie which is on the right, as you are sitting in it?)

The inside is on the left as you're sitting. Good luck! x

For violins.

It varies between instruments. I think violas, celli and double basses it's the opposite, and it's the opposite for flutes/claris even though they sit on the same half of the orchestra as violins.

oh it's all FUN this orchestra stuff isn't it?

The conventions of orchestral seating are based on logic, so are not too difficult to remember.

In the strings, outside is nearest the audience and inside players do the turns partly so as to minimise the distraction of the audience, partly to keep the stronger player playing. The inside second violins have to be able to turn the music from either side: before Sir Henry Wood, the convention was that they were on the opposite side of the stage from the firsts, and this also puts either violas or 'cellos on the same side as the firsts. Nowadays any of these three string layouts may be used, depending upon the conductor's views. Principal players are on front desk so that the others can see the bowing. Inside players wield the (2B or softer) pencil and eraser, and record the principal's or the conductor's decisions on the part: bowing, phrasing; in amateur orchestras, useful fingering suggestions.

In the wind and brass, the terms "inside" and "outside" are not used. In a standard symphony orchestra* the players of part 1 are principals, the other wind and brass players on the main instruments in each section are sub-principals, except for the horns, in which both 1 and 3 are principals, because either may have the highest and most exposed part; players of different instruments within the same family (e.g. piccolo, bass clarinet) are also principals. A typical wind section for a small symphony (e.g. Sibelius 7) has 8 members, sitting in a rectangular pattern near the centre of the stage. Viewed from above the audience, the set-up is:

Cl2 Cl1 Bn1 Bn2
Fl2 Fl1 Ob1 Ob2

Horn 1 sits near Clarinet 2 and to his/her right, Trumpet 1 to the left of Bassoon , possibly behind. The clustering puts the wind principals as near as possible to each other, and Trumpet 1 and Horn 1 also fairly close, because these six players usually listen to each other for tuning and ensemble, while the remainder of each section tunes to their section principal.

* there is a conventional notation for scoring that looks something like (2+pic 2+ca 2+bcl 2+cbn!4231) timps, perc, strings. This gives the numbers of flutes, oboes, clarinets, bassoons, horns, trumpets, trombones and tubas in order, followed by other instruments not members of the string group. "Doubling" instruments (e.g. piccolo) are placed with the number of their main family instrument.

I'm so glad so many adult students are joining orchestras!! I also train in martial arts, and I'm jealous when the kids get to travel around the world to tour in youth orchestras, wish I had started earlier...

Anyways, OP, I started with only 3 months of violin playing, yes, you heard it right, 3 months, not grade 3 or 3 years. I was very lost, didn't know where they were playing, and yes, I was sitting inside, and turning the page was very stressful for me.

You're sightreading will improve so fast that you didn't know what happened!!

I play in a chamber orchestra, and it's alot scarier than larger symphony orchestras (did that over the summer, so much fun!!, love having the brass to cover me heheh). There are alot less room for error. And if you are ambitious, try quartet, it's alot of fun too!

Now i've been only playing for a year and a half, but I've already been with the orchestra over a year, and it's so rewarding!!

(I would have never had the bottle so I admire you)

It's today!!!

I've just printed off the instructions from google maps - it seems like a long way away.

Enjoy yourself.

Well I've just got back. Managed to find it ok - just kept going around the south circular until I got there (although Catford was a bit nerve-recking for those who know this neck of the woods.)

It's a very small orchestra - 3 first violins (1 of whom is not always there), 4 2nds, 4 violas - if you count me, and one of those is not always there, and 3 cellos, so no where to hide really.

We played 2 movements of Haydn symphony 38, some of Britten's Simple Symphony and something else I can't remember (with a solo violin part)

I managed to play a fair bit, only got totally lost once (but got slightly lost, and found again, a fair few times).

All my technique disappeared, as did any ability to read treble clef or remember where anything is in 3rd position, and I really ache now because i was so tense.

Everyone was very friendly and wants me back, and as the music seems to have found it's way into my viola case I suppose I shall be returning. I can't say I enjoyed it because it was too nerve wracking and I had had enough 30 minutes from the end, but I can see the potential

If anyone else would like to join me it is West Norwood on a Friday morning and they appear to welcome anyone who is happy to give it a go.

That sounds very promising.

Your stamina will improve as you get used to the new playing environment, and hopefully your nerves will too.

Sounds fun

I'm still thinking about joining the local string orchestra. However, I have no money

Tap up family/the OH for "sponsorship", ensuring that they know how happy it would make you? Early Christmas present?

Seeing as the family are already giving me money to live on and the OH is planning on taking me away for a weekend somewhere, I feel that it would be slightly cheeky of me...

You don't ask, you don't get! Hmm... perhaps subtle hints might work, with the festive season approaching!

Excellent 2childmum. That looks like a remarkably well balanced band. Normally it's 1 viola if you're lucky. I like that - finding music in your case. A good hint.

Funnily enough when I went to play oboe the other night the leader's first comment was "I hear you play viola as well"!! So someone had been talking out of turn!

I'm sure we'll both enjoy our bands more and more as we get used to the experience (and the fear subsides).

West Norwood is do'able' for me but not on a Friday morning, I work 6 days a week and only have evenings on my hands!
Anyway, I think my tuesday evening orchestra is enough of a headache for me right now!
if and when I reach grade 5 on double bass I'm looking forward to join the Croydon Symphony on a friday evening

Sounds like you have done TONS better than me, actually I am still a lot worse than you now and it is 3 months I have been doing it!

I know the Catford Gyratory well...



Sounds like you've done well 2childmum. I'm sure you'll get more used to things. Well done!



My 'cello playing is nowhere close to the level required yet (1 lesson!), but I'll bear it in mind

jojo I did consider joing CSO, it is around the corner from my College! However I think 2 orchestras are enough for now.

Possibly when I leave TYO, which allows members up to 21 years old, I will join CSO as a replacement for TYO.

3 orchestras definitely is too much!!

Then shall I say: 'See you at CSO in the not so distant future?' if you are still 18 it means it will be another 3 and a half to 4 years before you join CSO, by then hopefully I will be even more than grade 5 double bass and maybe working towards a grade 8 violin? (would be nice ) and I will be at the 'tender age' of 43 to 44

I am 19 on Feb. 1

Good! only 2 and a half years til we play together then
or 3 and a half? (depends whether you leave TYO at 21 just completed or 21 years and 11 months

In the 2011/12 season I will turn 21 and leave at the end of that season. That is if I can still get to the rehearsals at 6.15pm on mondays for the next 3 years.

My situation might change when I leave college and I get a job.