We are playing the Beethoven 9th this season, and I was (almost) in tears during rehearsals. It was very difficult mainly because of the speed. I'm so jealous when everyone else even the double base gets the melody of Ode to joy during the last movement when the 2nd violin plays accompaniment, they are 8th notes, but certainly felt like 16th at the time!!

How do you play fast passages in orchestra (and I guess in your solo repertoire) when it's just simply too fast? dotted rhythms? Metronome starting at largo and work your way up to presto? Does it work?

Oh yes I can completely identify with this! I have been playing cello in a community string orchestra for nearly 3 years now (adult returner at the age of 40 as a result of my daughter starting cello lessons and her wonderful teacher persuading me to join the orchestra - teacher is the conductor, will be forever grateful to her for this as it has brought me so much delight). The first year was terrible - took a while to fit in, as they were quite cliquey, I was very rusty and intonation dreadful (still working on this one!) and had no idea about different types of bowing - in retrospect, they must have cursed me, but I kept going and now have been booted up to first desk on the inside. Last year we did Bach's 3rd Brandenburg concerto, which goes like the wind (well it seemed so to me - but our version was nothing like as fast as some.....). I found the best strategy was slow practice with a metronome to keep me honest and avoiding speeding it up until I was absolutely accurate at each speed - in the end I had it memorised (and I think you probably do have to memorise those fast passages, as I certainly find this helps - my teacher, who is a professional orchestra member, can play all her difficult passages by memory). I also pulled apart the bits which were slowing me down and worked out whether it was a string crossing problem or a shifting issue (or a bit of both...) - then worked on right and left hand issues independently (open strings, so good for this, never ceases to amaze me how effective playing something on open strings is to pick up exactly where the issue lies). Come the concert, it was as if someone else took over, and I was watching my fingers fly with absolute amazement!

I know other solutions can include only playing the first note of each bar (or collection of semis) - the main thing is not to disrupt the rhythm for the others in the orchestra. There are still parts where the best thing I can do is fake it! (and my teacher says professional orchestras also do this, so I feel I am in good company). Hang in there, do the bits you can manage, take your time over the fast bits and work them up slowly, but don't worry if it is beyond you right now, it gets better with time. Good luck!

Slow it down and play it in every rhythm you can think of!
Swung, inverted swung, triplets, crotchet crotchet quaver quaver, whatever takes your fancy then speed it up and then play it straight. That way you have your head and fingers round it in every way possible! If you can play it in all those rhythms then you can play it straight. Plus it'll be more controlled after all that too
Good luck!

My teacher also tells me to play with 'all different types of bowing'
ie: separate bows, two slurred two separate, 3 slurred 1 separate, 2 separate and 2 slurred and so on, any type of combination you can think of!
just like ffliwt suggested exercise it will get your 'head and fingers' round it in every way and it will 'cement the piece' in you!

I have to do this with my pieces and my exercises every day (teacher's orders )

I use 2 options to help me gain speed on violin.

1) play crotchets at a comfotable speed, then play the same passage as quavers and so on.
My teacher tells me to do this and its a really good idea. Itend to use this on studies.

2) When learning things that I know I need to play or want to play ie graded pieces etc, I use a metronome and find my starting speed, get really comfy playing that speed, then every couple of days take it up a notch.

A reply above suggested different types of bowing - that is also a good one and I need to that more...

Was about to post the same thing! (wonder why..)
Look up the bowing variations for Kreutzer no.2
If you do even the first few it'll fix just about anything.

Failing that, the orchestral player's best friend - fake it! (works well unless you're all doing it!)
Keep your bow going but actually aim to play the first in each set of 4 semiquavers or whatever. This relaxes you slightly and helps you to keep up.Then when you've got the pace every 2, and gradually fill in the ones inbetween as you dare. Sounds silly but works surprisingly well

Another variation on a theme of "slow down" is to play the bow at the right speed and the notes half speed, so you are halving the speed and playing each note twice. Instead of playing semiquavers going do so fa mi re mi fa mi etc. you play do do so so fa fa mi mi re re. Hope that makes some sense! Then you get accustomed to bowing the rhythm and fingering the notes, so when you double that up to do so fa mi re mi, etc. you have already got the right hand skill practiced, and it feels less like you are stirring up a dirge than straight slow practice!

I'm seriously considering switching over to the first violin section for this piece, not only are the notes fast in 2nds, but the counting is crazy!

Heh, heh, have often considered sneaking off to join the double bass section behind me (only one of him and a darn fine job he does too, I might add!)

Seriously, perhaps you could consider defecting to the firsts as a short term solution if it is really getting to you (and it sounds like it is......and I do know that horrible feeling of the music being well beyond my current capabilities) - but honestly, don't beat yourself up about this, you would be amazed how few members of the audience will actually notice what you are doing (unless they are your wretched daughter who also plays cello and has heard you swear your way through your part for the last month or two, hence knows every dodgy bit........and takes great delight in telling you so........grrr). With counting, I have now learnt to write cues all over my music (again, if my teacher does it on hers, I reckon that is good enough for me) - and I have also (on my conductor's advice) got a recording of the piece we are playing (Stravinsky, eeek) and played along with it to see how my part fits in and exactly where to come in.

Love all the advice on bowing, I am sooo going to try out some of those suggestions on my latest piece (Vivaldi double cello concerto )

Wolfnotes

In TYO we always go through hard passages of semi quavers in the string sectionals. We play it several times very slowly to get all the notes and then slowly increase the speed. I an hour long sectional we may only get through one page of a symphony!

We are told that if we really can't get all the notes just play the first note of each group of 4. So long as not everone does this you can get away with this rather han playing every note. So long as all the notes get played by somebody.

We have 2 great string coaches that help us though tough passages. Last week we were working on long passages of semi quavers in Bruckner symphony 4 3rd movement.

The first and most important thing I think to remember when you're actually at rehearsal, is don't panic I think everyone who's ever played in an orchestra has had that feeling, the best thing to do is not to panic, try and keep up and play something, even if it's only one note a bar and remember that you can go home and practice it and you'll be able to play a little more the next time.
If you're really struggling and not comfortable with the 2nd violin part, it might be wise to try and swap, after all, if you're not enjoying it then it slightly defeats the object! Though I'm sure you'd get a massive amount of satisfaction and enjoyment if you did stick at the 2nd part and manage to conquer it!
Also, all the other advice about techniques for learning fast passages is fantastic, really useful, thanks

As the others have said - slow it down and build up the speed gradually. But if as you say in the original post, it is just too fast, then mime it. Seriously. The important thing is that you keep your place in the music so you can start playing again when you come to a bit you have mastered, and also so that you don't play in a silent beat (I did this in a concert last month - gulp!).

A really useful tip which somebody else has already mentioned is just playing the first note in each bar or the first one of each group. Keep your bow moving for the others, just don't make a noise! This makes sure your bow is moving at the same time as everybody else's and you won't look like you're lost. Don't stress about the fast passages - most of us mime difficult parts from time to time. Please don't let a tricky passage spoil your enjoyment.

Don't you just love it when this happens! Makes all those years of hard graft worth it.