Some of you will know that our son (15) has taken to the organ stool, and for the past year or so has regularly played for Sunday morning services.

Both clergy and congregation are generally very supportive, but we have continual problems obtaining advance notice of hymns. In all cases, the clergy or lay readers like to choose hymns, and we have usually been able to prize hymn numbers from them a few days in advance - until now!

We knew a month ago that our son would be playing this morning, and that it was to be the Harvest service. He had requested the hymn list on several occasions, only to be told that he needed to speak to the 'someone else' who was choosing them.

Given that it was a harvest service, he took the wise precaution of playing through most of the popular harvest hymns on the piano at home, so there wouldn't be any surprises, but there are quite a few harvest hymns in our various hymn books, with many more in different key signatures!

Anyhow, after numerous phone messages and e-mails, we finally received a phone call from the clergy person concerned on Saturday morning, apologising that he had been busy all week, and so hadn't had time to give us the hymn list. He also told us that he had left one of the hymns on the organ stool as it was new, and not in any of the hymn books. Better still, we were told that the order of service had already been printed, complete with words to the hymns, so it was too late to change any of them. Wonderful!

We were very busy with other things all day Saturday, so the best we could do was to arrive at church early this morning to run through the hymns on the organ. On arriving we found the new hymn on the organ stool, together with a different setting of the Gloria and a Post It note saying that there was no need for an organ voluntary during communion, as a CD was to be played instead.

The church was full, so this was no time for mistakes, and thankfully everything went without a hitch; although the sermon was spent 'playing' the Gloria, and the new hymn through silently on the manuals!

Of course the clergy person was warmly congratulated afterwards for the wonderful service, but I doubt that any of the congregation knew how close they had come to a musical disaster!

Knowing that most of you have far more experience of these matters than we do, do you have any tried and tested solutions for getting reasonable advance notice of hymns and settings from clergy?

And realistically, how much advance notice do you reasonably expect?

SB

Welcome to the organist's world!!

Post deleted as not really relevant to the discussion.

Honestly - this is about parr for the course. I think this is probably one of the reasons that the new English Hymnal has very few hymns in with more than 2 sharps and even fewer with any flats in, because it is so hard to get organists these days and it has to be easy to sightread.

I had a piano student, an adult beginner, a while back, who could play at around about a grade 5 level, but her confidence was zero, I was always trying to persuade her to perform even if it was just to her husband or son to try and increase the confidence but she wouldn't. Anyway, one weekend she went off to a Catholic retreat somewhere and during the weekend someone asked her if she could have a go at playing one of the hymns. Something took hold of her and she agreed, almost determined to break this not being able to perform thing. So she practices gets it so she can make a reasonable attempt then very nervously goes into the chaple on the Sunday morning. She plays the hymn, very proud of herself, then one of the ladies goes up to the organ, lifts off the music, and puts the next hymn up expecting her to play it Bless her, she didn't run which is what I would have expected, and managed to keep the tune going, but it took me a good 6 months to pick her back up from the experience of it.

As you say - non musicians, have no idea.

Having said that, my vicar is wonderful and I usually have all of the hymns by Thursday.

...Although not only the world of the organist, welcome to my world, the world of the clarinet player trying to play in Church...
I never know what Worship songs we're playing until Sunday morning, they're nearly always in the key of E Major (4 sharps!) because I'm told this is an easy key for the guitar players, if I'm not too familiar with the song I then have to sight read and transpose into F#Major (6 sharps).

But I do love it, and hope it is stretching me and improving me as a musician.

Regards.

My husband plays guitar and he can accompany any tune I attempt by using a capo to get to a key that's manageable for him. I'm surprised that the church guitarists can't do the same - after all, there's no equivalent to the capo for a clarinet.

Ah, but there is the option of Clarinet in A

If I'm playing with our church music group, I insist on having the music in advance so that I can transpose it ready for the service. I can do up a tone on sight and up a minor third is just about OK, but not if I'm trying to work from bass clef (or one of those hideous worship songs where any harmony part or accompaniment flits between two staves ).

Anyway, we've gone a bit off topic (and as Thomas Hardy said, "Clarionets wasn't made for the service of the Lord. You can tell that by looking at 'em" ). Sorry to hear of your problems, Swell Box, and hope that things work out better next time

Well, I suppose it is encouraging to know that we are not alone in not receiving the hymn list until the very last moment, and looking at it positively, I can see that it will stretch our son's musical abilities; although it does seem rather unfair on anyone, especially a beginner.

What I think he finds most frustrating is that the clergy are prone to saying "if it's too difficult (i.e. we're too late with the hymn list) you only need to play the top notes"; but he doesn't play like that, (he never has); he just wants a few days notice so that he can play the hymns in all three or four parts. Can the clergy not tell the difference, or does it not matter to them?

I have to say that our Lay Readers are much easier to work with than the clergy, as they usually provide hymn numbers a week or so in advance. One of our Readers even circulates a monthly spreadsheet of hymns and readings at least a month in advance, but then he also has a full time job in industry to work around!

I agree that we should be more assertive, but whenever the subject is raised with the clergy they are either 'too busy' to spend time discussing the matter, or just promise to be better organised next time. As you might expect, we are still waiting for that elusive ‘next time’.

SB

I have taken to refusing to play if I am not giving suitable notice, particularly if the programme has been printed.

After a few hymns with no accompaniment, and a few hymns changed to those I can manage, the message has got through and I now have all the hymns between now and the New Year. However, it is the first time that I've had such an understanding ministry to work with.

Some musicians could do hymns on sight, but I am not that experienced.

Non-musicians don't realise that I spend as much, or more, time practising the hymns, as they do preparing the sermon.

What about telling him that you'll call at his house for the hymns and all other eventualities on, say, Thursday night, and that you're only available for the Sundays for which you've got the hymns on Thursday? State your case in a letter to the vestry, or whatever body is in charge - then you can't be ignored. If you're a little tongue in cheek and good-humoured about the whole thing they should surely try to accommodate? Explain that some organists will be able to play absolutely anything straight off the cuff, and you hope to one of them some day, but that that day hasn't arrived just yet, and meantime you're grateful for their support in getting you there without making a fool of yourself. Organists are never keen to say "I can't", but if you keep on doing it then they'll assume that you can with relative ease, and will see no urgency to change their disorganised ways with regard to the music.

I had my first organists job at a Methodist church in Keighley when I was 14 (1961). Clergy taking the services were either 1. Our own minister, or 2. Another minister from a church in the same Methodist circuit, or 3. A 'Local' preacher (known as lay readers/ministers in C of E). They chose the hymns for their services. I had a copy of the clerical schedule, and some pre printed post cards, with spaces for them to fill in hymn numbers and mail back to me. Invariably if I mailed out at the weekend for the following Sunday, I got them back by Thursday. We also had a psalm or canticle in the morning service, but these were just rotated .
At that age it was necessary for me to have the hymns in advance. It was my duty to check if the tunes were known at the church , and sort out an alternative tune where necessary. Nowadays, being able to play or sight read them all, I just turn up early Sunday morning, wait for the Minister to arrive, check the tunes , and do the hymn boards (2 one for the left side, one for the right side). On one occasion I had transposed two figures on one board. The minister spotted this and announced that the right hand side of the church would sing Hymn 387 and the left side would sing 378 ! - Much embarrassment on my part !

Bet it wasn't as embarrassing as the time I launched into Thine Be The Glory, while the choir walked up the aisle trying to put the words of There is a Greenhill Far Away to the tune of Thine Be the Glory....All because I didn't check the order on the boards...they don't announce the first hymn... And nobody changed tack. I kept playing and they kept singing...

But I bet youve never had 'There is a green hill' to the tune of 'The House of the Rising Sun', that den of iniquity in new Orleans made famous by 'The Animals' . Anyway sorry, were now

It is not just non-musicians who are guilty of this kind of thing.

But what marvellous counterpoint may have transpired!

You can have months notice of the hymns only to have a delinquent Rector decide on a change in the middle of a service when he is impervious to frantic head shakes, fist shakes, throat-slitting gestures etc.

Once you accept that until you reach ARCO level you will be made to look an incompetent fool at least once a week, you become more relaxed about being bowled a googly and you learn to return it in kind; either very slowly or appallingly badly. So what? It is a blow to the pride, admittedly, because we all like to make a reasonable job of it but if they are going to do the dirty and drop you in it, they must live with the result! Fortunately, mistakes on the organ seldom have fatal consequences.

I first played the organ as a teenager and back then they only ever asked when they were short so I always agreed under the proviso that I chose the hymns, but then it wasnt' a paid job and I was doing it as a favour.

That is all very true Mel, but why do 'they' (the clergy) find it so difficult to give a few days advance notice, when the end result will be better for everyone?

We did have one cleric, a lovely chap (now long retired), who would completely forget what he was talking about mid sermon, but being a keen singer he was actually quite well organised in the music department.

What troubles me more is that the organist/pianist is always the one left looking like a fool, and I have never yet heard a cleric apologise publicly, and admit that the organist only knew about the music five minutes before the service. That's OK when you are as old and cynical as me, and have developed a tough hide, but it is hardly encouraging newcomers into the fold; and as we all know, there are not too many youngsters queuing up to play the church organ nowadays.

SB

I have to say, our minister is wonderful about giving notice of hymns. I usually play for our early service on the first Sunday of the month, for which the Roland is used, and I do find some of the modern hymns a bit tricky. Not only does he give me at least 3 days notice, but he will submit a list with at least 2 more hymns than he'll actually use, so that I can ask to be excused the most difficult ones!

Some of the local preachers are another matter. Recently, one sent me some words for a hymn, but no tune. I rang to ask which tune he would like, to be informed that he didn't have a tune for it, and couldn't I find one! It was a rather unusual metre, but Google came to the rescue and I discovered it was in a URC hymnbook - good job I know a few URC people here and could beg a book!

I'm sorry for your son, Swell Box, but he's at an age when he'll learn fast, and I'm sure it won't be long until he can sightread most hymns which might be dropped in his lap.

I deplore the idea that anyone, however, skilled, should sight -read hymns.

Hymns (and choruses) are a very important part of the service. They need careful preparation. Some hymn tunes, such as Ladywell, Wolvercote and Cuddesdon need rehearsal for any player who has not seen them before. Equally, some of the rhythms in choruses need practice if they are to have any conviction in performance.

Clergy and lay readers, of whatever denomination, who demand that hymns are read at sight should simply be told that ther congregation deserves (and will get) better.

These appalling accounts merely encourage organists not to offer themselves to play for services. After all, playing for a service is difficult enough, without the added stress of trying to sight-read when there is no need to do so.

Barry Williams

I agree with Barry and Swell Box. They really need to get their act together in a lot of cases, and they won't do so if we don't just say 'no' sometimes. I've done it! And my sight reading's not too bad. But as Barry said, they deserve better than to listen to me sight reading. Everything is better with practice, even if all the notes are in the right places. So I just refuse to do it - and it works.

I completely agree that such behaviour is deplorable and very much to be discouraged but when you have a dyed-in-the-wool anarchist leading the service there isn't much you can do if they change tack half way through giving you no opportunity to object without seeming to heckle during divine service. (I expect they do it to cover some error of their own!)

A final check prior to the service that all is as per the running order is the only recommendation I can make to SB junior, with an assurance that he will go home and leave them in the lurch if there is any alteration. I wish I had done this in my earlier days and now seethe when I recall some of the outrages I have countenanced because I was too much of a wimp to stand my ground - mainly from a lay person who sat in a position of honour in gown and hood simply because he had been around since the Reformation.

I think you owe me a new keyboard Mel. I should have known better than to have taken a mouthful of coffee before reading one of your posts.

But what gets me is that we are not asking our clergy to do anything extra; just to do it a few days earlier than they otherwise would so that everyone knows what they are doing in good time.

We have offered to pick the hymns on several occasions, but this has been refused on the grounds that they like to choose the hymns to suit their sermon - which presumably they have some idea about in advance?

I must say that they are usually quite laid back about changing hymns if it happens that they have picked one with six sharps in it or something, but on this occasion the service booklet had already been printed a week beforehand with the hymns in it, so why couldn't we have been e-mailed a copy? I suppose that is too obvious.

We also had the benefit of a PowerPoint presentation yesterday, complete with responses, as it seems these had been omitted from the service book. It just didn't occur to the cleric that there was only one small patch of white wall that could be used as a projector screen, and less than half of the congregation could see it.

SB

Maybe they're picked for their godliness rather than their pragmatism. Their hearts are probably in the right places - but they all benefit from a little friendly nudging on the practical side of things. (With apologies to any clerics present... ) A musical one is a great boon.

A useful opening gambit might be to explore with the offending cleric what the problem is that prevents him getting the hymn numbers to your son in timely advance (he may actually not have a reasonable excuse at all). Then impress on him the difficulty it creates and try to find a way round whatever problem he has so that he gives the choosing of hymns a higher priority than he does at present. Manoeuvre him into a position where he realises and acknowledges that he is being unreasonable.

Exactly - I'm capable of making enough mistakes of my own, without having clerical errors added to them.

Whenever I'm subbing on the organ, I always make it abundantly clear in my emails about hymns that any changes or decisions have to be final a week beforehand to allow me time to practise - and I explain that it's me playing rather than my OH who's a "proper" organist.

And I think you should make the position clear to your cleric as well SB - don't dress it up with humour. Be straight and clear - our lot are always going on about how the youth are the church of the future. If your son is willing and able to play for services, he deserves the respect of having hymns organised a few days beforehand (or however long is required), otherwise he'll be put off for life. I have no fear now of sending emails to anyone concerned and I keep pestering until I get a reply, otherwise, I choose the hymns myself and that's final.

I do know that the clergy (and others) leave music arrangements til the last minute with no understanding that organists have the rest of life to contend with too. We had a funeral last week, where my OH practised all the required hymns and selected voluntaries with care, and practised those too. Then we were told at the last minute that there was to be a piper playing the coffin in and out of church, so some of his time and effort was all for nothing. Grrr.

I can just picture the scene...

And as for what happened to Susies's other half - been there too. Practising something and giving attention to detail and going that extra mile for something that ends up superfluous to requirements is not funny.

Frustrating yes but surely he can recycle them another time when appropriate? Therefore to say the 'effort was all for nothing' is rather dramatic - typical of many organists to make a mountain out of a molehill?

No, to be fair, as sub-organist, that was my comment. My OH is very happy playing the organ, he'd do it all day if he didn't have to make a living doing other things. I suppose I took the view that I have when I have to learn music for church - it's a bit of an effort when I have other pressing demands on my time.

Sorry for the pun, but it seems I have struck something of a common chord with this post.

One thing that always strikes me is that clergy are always complaining about how busy they are, and how they don't have time to organise anything properly. (I have lost count of the number of PCC meetings I have attended where matters are carried forward month after month because the clergy have done nothing about them). We are also told about how much work our [paid] Parish Secretary has to do. And yet, the church (certainly the C of E), seems to have little regard for the time of unpaid volunteers, many of whom have full time jobs themselves, or are in full time education. Anyone who has had to apply for a faculty will know exactly what I mean! I am sure that if the church authorities had to pay commercial rates for this work they would very soon make things easier.

Of course we do all of this willingly, but it would be nice if the clergy would understand that our free time too is limited, and is every bit as valuable as theirs.

SB

Oooh! Brave noodle! did he quote Matt 5:22 to you? (paraphrasing of course )

This line is the one that seals my doom, at any rate, although it is invariably muttered under my breath.

the church (certainly the C of E), seems to have little regard for the time of unpaid volunteers, many of whom have full time jobs themselves

the same applies to the non-stipendiary clergy too of course (I'm married to one and we are currently going through interregnum) - although I suspect that the ones who have other jobs tend to be a bit more organised. As an organist of course I have sympathy with the OP.

Slightly off-topic, one of the times I remember as being really interesting was my last year before college, when I had the job of choosing all the hymns at the church where I was organist. The incumbent didn't want to know! I regarded it as a rare and welcome opportunity. (Other than that I 'd been sight-reading hymns and the like since the age of about 10 so was simply fortunate in being a good sight-reader).

I agree. I have every sympathy with non stipendiary clergy, as they seem to suffer exactly the same problems as the rest of us. I would also say (and agree) that the non stipendiary clerics I have come across do tend to be much better organised than the full timers, and find more time for personal ministry within the parish.

I like the idea of choosing hymns, but our clergy and readers seem to hold this role sacrosanct. We went through a long barren period when the Rector of the day decided that we should concentrate on singing the less well known hymns from A&MNS, forgetting that the reason they were less well known was that many of them were not much liked, and/or were difficult to sing.

I suppose one of the benefits of an interregnum is that lay members have rather more say in what we do and sing, which for some reason the congregation find more joyous.

SB

Could part of the problem be that people have more respect for what they pay for? And more respect for what isn't always available and therefore can't be taken for granted?

May I please comment on the issue of sight reading hymns?

I am not a beginner. I have several recital diplomas and can play the 'big' repertoire. (e.g. Reubke, Ad Nos, Bach Trio Sonatas, Dupre B major Prelude and Fugue, etc.)

I ALWAYS practise the hymns, excepting only those very well known ones, such as the tune 'St Peter'. Even then I look at the words carefully, to ensure that the phrasing matches the playing.

Others may be able to sight read them. I take the view that folk are entitled to the very best that I can give. That means excellent hymn playing. It does not come easily and always (for me) needs careful rehearsal.

I deplore those (whether clergy or laity) who expect a competent performance without allowing for a proper rehearsal. It is unacceptable in all circumstances.


Barry Williams

You're quite right, Barry. When I have the hymns beforehand, I put a lot of effort into registration and phrasing for the different verses; even then I am not very good. Not many churches have organists of your calibre, though, and I believe that worship is acceptable to God when it comes from the heart, even if there's a less than professional playing of the hymns.

Life is rarely ideal, and in the Methodist Church some preachers do like to be spontaneous - they call it "going where the Spirit leads" - and from time to time change the hymn on the spur of the moment. The way I deal with this is to set up the three manuals to have different volumes/sound quality, and to rely on my memory (I know most hymns likely to be chosen in this way) to suit the volume to the verse.

Worship needn't always be a polished performance IMO, though organists do their best to make it so when they have the hymns in advance.

Quite so, but it MUST be the best of which we are capable.

Many organists I am acquainted with are less than capable on a Sunday morning after a heavy night previously....

So practice done earlier in the previous day could turn out to be a help then!

Music creates an atmosphere (whether it's celebratory, reverent, contemplative, or one of mystery) that words can not. For that reason I don't think we should underestimate the importance of the music in a service. Or the importance of it being as good as possible. Whether the clergy like it or not, their sermons can often be dry and won't rouse the congregation spiritually in the same way as a really well played (and sung) hymn. Whether we organists are religious ourselves or playing as professional musicians, I think we should be doing our best.

"I believe that worship is acceptable to God when it comes from the heart, even if there's a less than professional playing of the hymns."

A private performance which is of great sincerity but less than professional will always be perfectly acceptable to God. However, it may be unacceptable for public worship where competence is essential. Even the very best we are capable of may not be adequate for public worship.

This is 'Le Jongleur de Notre-Dame' again. The point of that story being that the act of worship was not offered publicly, but privately. We must be very careful not to judge the price of apples by reference to the price of bananas, nor the quality of performance by the sincerity of the performer. A 'perfect' performance that is insincere is likely to be as unmusical and ineffective as one where the notes are all wrong. Yet there really is no excuse for shoddy playing, for simplified versions of hymns are available and, if a hymn is too difficult for the player, the minister may have to be told that it cannot be played.

I have always found hymn playing (which is an extremely small part of my organ playing) rather difficult and demanding. It needs constant attention to detail and much preparation. Some 'Worship Songs' are unsuitable for the organ and have very tricky rhythms. Quite a few hymns appear easy to play because they are laid out for four part singing, but are in fact difficult. Others, such as 'Gonfalon Royal' and 'Michael' need a large hand stretch. And this is before one considers phrasing and stop changes.

My advice to organists who have difficult hymns sprung on them by preachers who like to be spontaneous is simply to say that you are unable to accompany that hymn. One wonders how polished the service preparation has been if the preacher suddenly changes the hymn at the last moment.

I am suspicious that it is always the music that gets this type of treatment. How would one of the readers feel if, as they commenced the carefully prepared lesson, the preacher lent over and asked them to read something different? (Especially if it was one of those readings with all the difficult names.)

All of this points to an incorrect use of music in worship, trying to give it a prophetic function rather than a priestly function, the latter being the inherent nature of music in church. (I will stop now or this will become a lecture on the theology of music in worship!)

Berkshire Mum: You are a saint. I would not stand for it - not even once. You deserve better.

Barry Williams

I'm sure many of us would be quite happy to hear the lecture actually! It's an interesting subject!
Something I'm not always happy about is the preconception that the clergy is always right.

I would be less concerned about having hymns sprung during a service, as at least it is out in the open, and the congregation would hopefully be more understanding of any mistakes.

Edit: (Thinking on, this has actually happened to us in the past, and the Reader and congregation concerned were quite happy to be given just the starting chord, or perhaps the melody line played in the right hand to get everyone singing).

But this is very different to what we were discussing; when clergy wait until the last moment to provide a hymn list, especially knowing that the organist is capable, but comparatively young and inexperienced. In this situation, if mistakes are made, the congregation might form the view that the organist is not very capable, and/or has not bothered to practice.

SB

I do think it's particularly insensitive and unfair of your clergy to give such inadequate notice to a youngster. As Barry Williams says, hymns do need practice, and I think it's time to say that unless you have the hymn list by Thursday afternoon (or whenever your son thinks a good deadline would be) it won't be possible for him to play that Sunday. I'm sure that he'd only have to act on that once to ensure that the hymn list appeared at the stated time in future.

The thought going through the organist's head (or at least my head...) when presented with something difficult and unexpected is "Which will make me look like more of an idiot - if I say 'I can't', or if I give it a shot and make a mess of it?" It hasn't happened to me for a while, because I only play now what I get in advance, and they know that, but when it did happen in the past I'd invariably give it a shot - out of a mixture of arrogance and not wanting to look incapable. Rarely was it disastrous, but it was also rarely wonderful; it would have been easy to simply allow standards and expectations to drop, and ultimately decide that practice was a waste of time anyway if there was no guarantee that what I'd practised would be required. This is surely not what the clergy or the congregation would want? An apathetic attitude of "That will do/Good enough" from everybody? Why should the choir then bother to make an effort?

This is excellent advice for all, not just youngsters. But it is especially true for those young people learning to play the organ. The firm intervention of a parent in this matter would, I am sure, always be beneficial.

It makes me realise how fortunate I am in never being in that situation. I always have ample time to consider all the service music when ever I play in churches.

Barry Williams

It must bring a whole new meaning to "playing slurred"

Do they go to confession beforehand re: their gluttony?

A agree that we need to be a lot more assertive in these matters; but it is difficult when you have a keen youngster, who just wants to play, and worries that if he says 'no' he might not be asked again.

Right now it is Wednesday afternoon, and we are still waiting to hear whether he will be playing this coming Sunday ................

SB

We had one minister who used to ask me to choose the hymns. If I asked the subject of the sermon to give me a clue the reply was usually "It's about God and about 15 minutes".


Or there's the one where a surprise soloist appears at the piano in the middle of the service, puts the music on the piano and says "You'll be ok with that won't you..."
It WAS only a hymn setting and not something complicated but it was also in Db major and in a book with those funny shaped notes.
A group attached to our church where I play once a month and for special services are pretty relaxed about things and it's not unusual for me to get a request to try something previously unseen. I get a few minutes before they start for a quick run through.

It's difficult I agree, although I would say that there are probably not so many organists about that refusing to play just once might lead to him being overlooked later.

Could you be a little economical with the truth (or in fact it might be absolutely truthful) and tell the clergy (or whoever chooses hymns) that he needs to know on (say) Tuesday because he has a couple of nights of heavy duty homework which limit time for practising during the week. I have a feeling that parents are going to have to be a bit heavy-handed with the clergy here.

It really is too bad. The hymns are all available in that supplement that comes from the RSCM (if the clergy are sticking to the theme of the day), so there's really no excuse for tardiness. In fact our liturgy/music person (RC church here) plans things 2 or 3 months in advance so the PP has time to look over it. And we, who do the organ side of things plan 2 weeks ahead.

In terms of reasonable notice, that is for you to decide. I generally have the hymns a week or two in advance – but it can happen that I get little notice, whether it's a day or two, or twenty minutes before service, but there is usually good reason.

Whilst I agree that it is thoughtless and unfair to 'put upon' people, and especially the inexperienced , such is life. I don't find 'the' clergy any different in that respect. In church, I've had far more frustrations with choir members, parishioners and funeral directors than with anyone else. Outside of church, I find it is other musicians who make even more unrealistic demands, or who are laissez-faire about arrangements. I think that any job has its frustrations, and those are nearly always caused by other people.

I'm not suggesting that you just take it; you have to decide what you are going to do about it.

You're unsure as to whether he'll be playing on Sunday? Personally, I wouldn't have left it as late as Wednesday to find that out, especially in view of recent events. But why should you have to chase them up about it? It would appear that in that church, that is what you must do to keep yourselves organised.

There are other churches. And if you feel that you aren't being listened to, or treated respectfully then you can easily withdraw your services. Ultimately, it depends how much you want the gig.