Hi all,

I am going to be sitting the LRSM in oboe perfromance at xmas time, and am going through a bit of a crisis with regard to the modern piece. I've chosen to do the Saint Saens, which I really like.

However I'm struggling a bit (a lot) with the last movement, and am very nervous about the marking standard at this level. One wrong note and I feel it will be curtains. This is a shame as I really like this piece but feel its too risky.

My alternative is the Poulenc, and am just wondering if anyone could offer any advice on this. I haven't played it yet, and am wondering if it would present a bigger challenge than the Saint Saens.

many thanks.

I wouldn't call Saint-Saens 'modern' in your viva...

Have I got this right, eroica? Your LRSM is in about eight weeks' time, and you're considering changing your programme to include a work you've never played before?

Even if you could get the notes learnt quickly, there's an awful lot of "performance" that would need to be included at this level, including becoming equal partners with the pianist (the Poulenc woodwind sonatas are definitely equal partnerships rather than soloist + accompanist).

Even if you can manage to dedicate most of every day over the next two months to learning the work, don't forget to allow enough time for Viva preparation and programme notes, as well as Quick Study.

What else are you planning on including in your programme?

Welcome to the forums, BTW

I have played both but neither at LRSM standard or any where near, so I'm not sure what I found hard is necessarily much use but here goes.

If you are struggling with the 3rd movement of the Saint Saens because of the speed then it is probably the second movement of the Poulenc which you will find hardest. It is different but I don't know that it is any easier. I found the extremes of the oboe used in the 3rd movement of the Poulenc tricky but presumably at your level, this should be less of a problem. The first movement is, I think, the most straight forward.

However, and this is linked to what Deborah said about performance, I also found the Poulenc harder because I had less of a "feel" for it - it didn't immediately "speak" to me the way the Saint Saens did.

are the Sigtenhorst van den Meyer Three Rustic Miniatures on the list? Not hard to learn, but impressive...

I love the pulenc, certainly over the Saint Saens, though again, I'm not sure if it passes the 'modern' test. The 2nd mvt is certainly the more challanging in my opinion...

Thanks everybody for the replies.

Just to note, I mean "modern" here in a relative sense. The programme I have decided on, and in this order, is as follows:

Handel - Sonata in F major
Poulenc oboe sonata
Hummel - theme and variations for oboe and orchestra in F major

I'll memorise the Hummel, and use the sheet music on the day for the two sonatas.

I think at this stage I prefer the Poulenc, and technically I'm only experiencing a few problems with it around the middle section, which I think I can iron out in five weeks.

Would be interested to hear what anyone's thoughts are on the Hummel. This is being offered as own choice repertoire. However in total it runs to 14 minutes, which might be greater than one third of the total platform time. If I omit repeats I stay more within the parameters of the syllabus, but feel like the musicality is being compromised.

To be honest, my main worry is the programme notes, as my ability to technically analyse a piece isn't great, so lots of work needed here.

The Poulenc is trecherous in a couple of ways:

1) the opening soft entry;
2) second movement fast stuff (the decending octave slurs are very hard);
3) pp on the low Bb in the third movement;
4) pp ending (hard to get a uniform tone colour across the break).
etc.

Musically I never understood it, although I did pass my DipABRSM with it (first two movements).

I am not sure how rigid they are about the 1/3 own choice rule, but the Hummel is indeed over that length. I would love to include the repeats (more structurally sound), but you may not have that luxury for your exam.

What problems exactly do you have with Saint Saens 3rd movement by the way? The ascending scale to high G? Or just the fast stuff in general? I think if you miss a note or two, it's not a big problem. But if the technique is poor in general, that's a bigger concern.

Thanks for the information Wai.

As I progress now through the Poulenc I think the first movement is going to give me the most problems in terms of keeping the dynamic contrast all relative. I'm probably most worried now about the entry immediately after the pause bar - starting quitely and not going flat on the sustained g, more of a reed problem though here I think.

Thanks also for the advice on the Hummel, musically it doesn't feel right to leave out the repeats but I don't think I have any choice here - do you think this piece is an appropriate standard for LRSM?

The Saint Saens was giving me a lot of trouble in the middle section on the third movement - mainly the rapid scales starting on bottom e flat and f that contract with the two sets of triplets, and then the fast section after this.

Part of me wants to go back an do the Saint Seans now, but its too late at this point, I have to go for what I have now.

Dear Eroica,

It is unfortunate that you were not able to forsee the problems with Saint-Saens. The running passage is indeed tricky.

For the Poulenc, please make sure you rehearse enough times with your pianist. It is tricky to come in after the initial two bars (the pianist plays the downbeat and you come in after a semiquaver rest). The third movement is difficult for ensemble as well. If your pianist (or you) slip up in the 2nd movement it's difficult to recover!

I think the Hummel is flashy and is appropriate for LRSM. I like the piece a lot. Are you adding ornamentations for your Handel?

Thanks Wai,

yes, it looks like a few practice sessions with the pianist will be critical to get the Poulenc correct. I got a very good lesson last week from a prefessional player, who showed me how to conduct in the piano on the downbeat in bar three of the first movement - so I think this will be ok.

In terms of the Handel, I feel I will have to add some ornamentation in the adagio after the fugue ( 3rd movement) - it feels like its expected here. I have a lesson this evening so will have a look at that.

Also, would you mind me asking how you went about researching the Poulenc? I'm reading a study guide at the moment combined with the new grove, and what I can get from cd inlay cards also. I'm just wondering if there was a particular text you found helpful when doing your research?

The Handel seems to be ok to find infromation on, but the Hummel is causing a lot of problems. No mention of the piece in the new grove or the only english language biography available for him......

Hello Eroica,

I have many CDs of the Poulenc, and I read a lot on top of that, so getting info on the piece didn't present a big challenge for me. I never had to write for the Hummel. As a matter of fact, I picked my FRSM programme based on how well I could write about it as well as how well I could perform it. I think you should be working out some ornamentation for the Handel soon, and make it a habit of playing that as part of your performance. In fact I never played (or even practised) baroque pieces without ornamentation.

I take that you don't take regular lessons with a professional player?

Sneaking back into the diploma thread...
I thought I read somewhere that ornamentation was expected by grade 8. (Or am I imagining it?)

This is a forum area I never venture into normally. These are the two pieces that Emsoboe is considering for Grade8. She has the second movement of the Saint Saens developing nicely (not ready for G8 yet). She's bearly looked at the Poulenc and like Kerioboe hasn't really connected with it.

Good luck for the LRSM

Not so: everyone (yes, everyone) plays wrong notes. It is far more important to play the notes in the right way with musical shape and phrasing than it is to worry about the odd (and inevitable) wrong notes.


My advice would be reiterate the advice of Deborah: Don't even think about starting a new piece this close to the exam. Stick with the Saint-Saens.

Thanks Wai,

I'm getting regular tuition now at the moment from a professional, I covered the ornamentation in the Handel this weekend, and it shouldn't be too much of a problem - just need to integrate it into the practice now as you suggest.

I had an excellent lesson on the Poulenc last week, and this is starting to take shape now. I hope to have the scherzo up to speed in about two weeks, and am enjoying this piece a lot now. I got a good bit of work done this weekend as well on the programe notes - lots of info available about this piece, so nearly ready to put pen to paper here. I'm just trying to find out a bit more about his relationship with Prokofiev and I should be ok.

As there is very little information available about the Hummel, do you think it is acceptable to write a little less about it, and a little more about the other two within the 1800 words? Or should you stick strictly to 600 words per piece?

I think it's perfectly ok to write a bit more on some pieces and a bit less on some others, so long as it's not too one-sided. Another thing you can consider is to write a brief introduction/paragraph on oboe in general. That's what I did on some of my programme notes and I think it worked well.

I like the idea of maybe writing a paragraph on the oboe - I'll give that some thought as I progress. I'm happy with the way the Handel programme notes are coming along and there's a wealth of very good information on the Poulenc, so I may cut down the Hummel slightly if I need to.

Do you mind me asking how you prepared for the quick study? Did you use any particular study text that fit with the modern "pastiche" style that the quick studies are written in?

thanks.

My preparation for the Quick Study was quite different from that of other forum posters here. I practised scales patterns rigourously. For me, if I had the technique to pull it off, reading wasn't a problem. I made sure I practised lots of chromatic scales (ascending with lower neighbour, decending with upper neighbour, scales in thirds etc), and indeed the exam piece had bits and pieces of those. I pulled those off the hat and got an 11/15 (I think).

Hi Eroica,

How did your LRSM oboe exam turn out?

Hi there Wai, thanks for the message

yes I just found out the other day that I passed! I had to repeat the quick study a couple of months ago but finally got through. The Viva and the performance went well on the day - although the room where the exam took place was very dry and humid, which didn't do me any favours at all during the Poulenc.

Anyway, I'm glad it's over now. Very tough exam. I think I will try and do something with it now before diving into the FRSM.

Many thanks for your advice through this forum during the process. It was very helpful.