Does anyone have any tips or excercises on how to practise playing the alberti bass quiet in the left hand?

I have tried;
just playing a simple 5 finger exercise in both hands, right loud, left quiet.
Then playing the tune in my right hand louder first then coming in with the alberti bass after quietly and also the other way round, but its still hard.

Thanks

You could try "ghosting" the left hand, ie: touching the keys but not actually pressing them down, and then gradually move on from there? This has helped me before..

I usually stuff it up and lose the balance again after crescendos/decrescendos, though..

Im not sure that I can answer your question, but even at my level I know I have had a tendency through the years to make my left hand too loud at times, particularly in an Alberti Bass passage. I'm particularly bad when it occurs in Mozart Sonatas, and I play all of them ! Yes even in the relatively easy K545. All I can do to counteract it is to be conscious I am doing it ! Yes its a basic technique thing, and I shouldnt do it.
It may stem from the fact I am also an organist , an organ technique is quite different, and can cause you to play with a heavier touch than usual when you revert to the piano.
I'm sure there will be teachers on here who can come up with a couple of studies/exercised for practising this.

Two reasons an alberti can be too loud:

1. You don't know the alberti notes comfortably enough, so are having to concentrate on them, therefore your brain is listening to it more than the right consequently it will be louder than the right. Try really listening to the right hand melody while you're playing together it does work.

2. The LH is too stiff, to really control an alberti you need a very relaxed wrist and arm so go back to first principles re relaxation, try to get a musical shape to the alberti so each note is not equal, which again is quite hard to do, especially as solari says when trying to maintain a consistancy throughout.

FSM - as far as the K545 is concerned the more I come back to it, the more convinced I am that it is one of the hardest ones to pull off. Yes, it is the most approachable to get all the notes in the right order and the right timing, but at any level I think it's the easiest one to make a complete pigs ear of.

Practice (= repeat the pattern several times):

Each of these dynamic levels:
As loud as you can with just finger action/Moderate/Softest you can manage that still sounds,

Combined with each of these types of touch:
Staccatissimo/Staccato/Legato/Legatissimo
(very slight raise of fingers above the keys for staccato, fingers glued to the keys for legato)

At each of these speeds:
Very very slow and deliberate/Comfortable tempo/Fastest you can manage without getting ragged

That is 36 different exercises. For more variety you can transpose into different keys so as to get different patterns of black and white keys. Practice each hand separately to allow you to devote full attention to each individual finger movement. Avoid excess tension in all the exercises.

The idea is to gain more fine control of your movements, while staying as relaxed as possible. When you have control you will be able to make each note as loud or soft as you choose.

Be patient!

Digby, are you saying that an alberti bass should NOT have 4 equal beats of duration? I.e. play almost like a very slight dotted rhythm? Or am I getting totally confused?

The piece I am doing is Piano Time 3 Andante Cantabile. It's the first time I have properly attempted alberti bass (the first time about 6 months ago I had to abandon as I was rubbish!).

The alberti is secure on its own but poor when combined with right hand, so could I also perhaps try playing the alberti in left and just play any random notes in my right so I do not concentrate on the left as I agree I need to be doing it automatically so I can concentrate on the right hand melody.

Help!

Solari and Mad Tom, I will try your suggestions later thanks. I would imagine its not something that I will crack overnight (patience is a virtue)

I disagree. I don't think random notes in the RH will help at all (but of course I could be wrong). I'd say keep practicing both hands separately, and practice the proper piece S-L-O-W-L-Y (but still rhythmically) with hands together ... maybe far slower than you ever imagined, as slowly as you have to to play all the right notes with the weight you want to give them. Also it should not be automatic. What happens is that through practice you increase your capacity for producing music, so that you can fully control two (or more) separate components of the music.

Something I found useful. This might work...

You say you are secure with the LH. Well then play the LH at about normal speed and softly. While doing that gradually introduce not random notes but a very simple in-tune melody with the RH over the top (it might be part of the RH you are ultimately trying to play - perhaps just the first note of the bar). Keep the LH soft and smooth while playing around with the RH (legato, staccato, etc) but always making the RH sing out over the left. Then gradually increase the complexity of the RH by introducing additional notes, but always sufficiently gradually that you dont lose control over the difference in volume.

You can use the same technique for learning to play staccatto one hand with legato in the other.

It works for me - especially with the Alberti Bassetts you get in Liquorice Allsorts!

Sorry I've confused you - the rhythm MUST be impeccably even, the stresses on the note however should have more of a musical shape. So you don't want 'plonk, plonk, plonk, plonk' etc, but Ta-fe-te-fi with the Ta having the normal stress of the beat.

Does that make sense.

If it is poor when you put hands together, it is probably more of a co-ordination problem, so slow the whole thing down, play at half speed for a couple of days then start to increase the speed.

Thanks everyone for your really constructive and helpful suggestions. It is much appreciated. I am going to practice right now........

I'm enjoying the whole Alberti bass thing at the moment in the Loeschorn Study in F for Grade 3. I *really* like that piece (it just feels and sounds really nice to play) and I picked it despite it being quite quick

A postscript to this. Some pianos do have relatively louder bass than others. I was reminded of this when playing at Dyrham park, where the Bechstein grand actually had a significantly quieter bass (or better overall balance between treble and bass) than my Rogers...

Mole

A lot of very good advice has already been given.
One that might also help - try wearing a glove on your left hand while playing the piece and then try again without the glove.
I know if sounds a bit crazy but I was told to try this when I learned Chopin's prelude no. 6 (but wearing it on the right hand since the melody is in the left hand) and it worked for me!
Good Luck!

I was expecting this thread to be about bass guitars or double basses, not pianos.

Ah, I can blame it all on my piano then!

Well, you can try....