My current teacher is great, at the moment we spend about 45 minutes on technique (sorting out my bad habits) and 15 minutes on music. I was just wondering how other string players divide up their lesson time. I know once I sort out my bad habits, we'll spend more time on music.

I've had 3 other teachers before I found my current teacher. I kept on changing teachers because I was getting bored or frustrated with the other teachers as I wasn't making much progress. My other teachers were use to teaching children rather than adults. They focused on playing musically. Now I'm so glad that I've changed teachers, cos the other teachers never picked up on my bad habits and didn't talk about technique that much. I'm a bit disappointed that no one picked up on all bad habits earlier, now I have to learn it all again

Technique and music are both important but it seems like some teachers just concentrate on the music and only the technique that is needed to play that piece of music. Maybe I've just been unlucky with teachers but at least I've got a good teacher now.

Dear Moon,

HOW I can relate to all that you said!!!!

I started playing violin at the tender age of 38 (will be 40 next month). Never learnt an instrument before in my life, did some music theory at age 5 to 7 at school, never revisited it since.

My first teacher don't get me wrong, did teach me a lot of things and got me up to grade 4 (somehow!), and he was a really nice guy, fun to learn with etc BUT as I developed on the violin and the more I discovered (on here and youtube etc) I realised I was not 'learning properly'.

I kept on asking him why we never did scales nor 'exercises' over the 2 years and a bit I've learnt with him, he kept 'fobbing these things off', saying I can learn technique from playing pieces.

I started getting SO frustrated after just 2 years with him that I asked him straight one evening, 'WILL YOU DO SEVCIK EXERCISES WITH ME?'

he refused, kindly and simply refused! My heart 'sunk', I knew it was time to MOVE ON!

and moved on I have!

I started with a new teacher in June this year (or thereabouts), I 'picked him' from amongst others as he sounded like the 'serious teacher' I always wanted.

I always wanted to 'learn properly', just like a child prodigy would learn (with the difference that I will never be a prodigy and will never have 4 hours a day to practice), but nevertheless I wanted to be taught technique properly, even though I would never become a professional, don't know if I am making any sense here.

Not only the new teacher I 'picked' sounded serious on learning properly, he studied himself with great violinists (had Sacha Lasserson as a teacher), so maybe there was a chance he might have some good things to pass on to his students. Ok, studying with famous teachers doesn't make you a good teacher yourself, but there might be a chance that this has helped you if you have it in you to be a good teacher.

Anyway, he puts emphasis on regular daily practice, not so much 'how much' but regular, he insists it has to be half technique and half music, so if I practice 30 minutes 15 on each, I try to practice at least an hour 5 days a week (I work 6 days a week, average of 50hours a week and commute to work too). Indeed my lessons with him (I have one hour once a week with him) are always half technique half music.

He started me on Sevcik op 1 and op3 and Kreutzer n.2, n.4 and he will soon start me on Kreutzer n.1

He has given me a new 'fresh approach' on how to learn music/pieces, the other teacher just 'made me play' and insisted on dynamics, this new teacher helps me to learn by giving me different ways to learn a piece.

For example, I have a string of very fast notes to play in a piece, he has showed to practice this difficult fast piece by applying different bowing variations/different rythms etc and since I have really seen a difference in how I am learning!

I know HE IS THE RIGHT TEACHER! for me anyway.

The sevcik exercises are really helping my intonation and finger placements, only now I realised how 'wrong' I was learning, I was just 'guessing' before, now I know exactly what I am doing and what I am supposed to do!

He makes me work hard and when I think I am just about to start playing something 'reasonably' he pulls it apart again by giving me another way of playing it! hard work, but I can tell it's paying off!

I have realised that my first teacher never 'took me seriously', I think he probably thought to himself:

'she is 40 years old, never will do this seriously/professionally, if I teach her to play some tunes reasonably ok for her friends and family then that will do'!!!

how wrong he was, I may only play to friends and in amateur orchestras in future, but I've always been a person who likes to 'do things properly' and to the best of my abilities and beyond, I like 'pushing myself', I think I made this clear to him many times but he refused to see it my way, it was his way only and I think the relationship has to be 'two-ways'.

Anyway, sorry about the long rant have let the steam out now!

It sounds like you have found a good teacher too!

we shall both leap forward soon

If there is a technique is a piece I am learning taht i find tough then my teacher spends a while teaching me how to do the technique properly and better than before.

For example I struggled with spicatto in a simple piece, so we spent 30 mins improving my ability to play spicatto by doing lots of different spicattoy excersices, and now I am much better at it. If I struggle with a passage of a piece or bow control etc then my teacher won't let me move on until it is corrected to his high standards. Even if we only get through half a page in the hour.

As a returning adult, I had some thumping big holes in my technique (make that have...) which needed addressing early on. I actually really, really like technical work because I can see the improvements which ensue from getting stuck into this. We have done a bit of a mix more recently - teacher picks the piece (partly based on technical issues I suspect ) and the need for the technical work becomes quickly obvious.......then she finds me studies and exercises to do which help me develop the techniques I need to play the piece. I've been getting her help on some of my orchestral stuff lately and that has brought up a whole lot of new technical gaps (sigh......but at least I am sorting out what I do and don't know, as is she!) - as well as teaching me some of the strategies which help you play as an orchestral member (like actually getting out your pencil when the conductor says something of importance eg how to time an entry...........oooh, and actually writing it down....... heh,heh).

I don't actually see how you could play musically without having the technique behind you to allow you to make choices about HOW you play something - it is so lovely now to be able to start to shape a phrase by using a different part of the bow or more arm weight or changing my vibrato (weeeellll......trying to....but my very tight vibrato is starting to loosen up to some extent, so I hope in about another twenty years I might have that one sorted....maybe?). Even if teacher doesn't give me exercises, I tend to either ask for them, go looking in my Feuillard or make up my own (I think she knows I am structured enough to work independently some of the time - she doesn't actually write in my notebook any more but leaves that job to me - I often write what she is saying in the lesson directly on to my music where I will actually see it, as will she next time )

Lottie, I so agree - I will never be a professional musician (and I'm actually quite relieved about that now I've seen a glimpse of what this life involves through observing my teacher, who is a professional orchestra member as well as teaching), but I am determined to be the best musician I possibly can in the years remaining to me (I do hope there are quite a lot yet, but one of my close friends was diagnosed with breast cancer this year and another friend nearly died after the birth of her third child, which tends to focus the mind fairly quickly). I have no desire to do exams, but I am setting other goals (I ended up being principal cellist in a concert earlier this year by default - last cellist standing, as some dropped out due to other commitments and one got terrible stage fright when playing solo - so there was I, at a couple of weeks notice, being basso continuo along with the organ for excerpts for the Messiah........help!! Had never played with a choir or soloists before, different conductor, people had actually PAID for their tickets as opposed to entry by donation.........boy was I terrified. BUT......it was a complete and total buzz in the end!!! Now teacher wants me to play the Vivaldi double cello concerto with her with my orchestra - at first I told her no way, but last rehearsal I plucked up courage and asked the conductor.........now all I have to do is get hold of the orchestra parts, oh, and get the jolly thing fit to be played in public........but I would never, never have thought I would do this if you had asked me three years ago). So I absolutely see why you treasure your teacher who takes you as seriously as any of their other students even if you aren't going to end up as a pro - three cheers for teachers who are adaptable enough to take on us "oldies" and respect what we are trying to achieve!!

Wolfnotes

Dont underestimate studies....I did - been playing since April and im onto G4 pieces - and yes, Ive been doing scales, theory etc I just wanted to concentrate on playing music & duets.

For the past 2 weeks ALL i have done are studies - some good ones in Tune a day book 3 but also use Kayser & Schradieck and I feel a much better player. Im much much more in tune and so when I play duets etc it sounds beautiful - whereas before I might play something but it could be a little out of tune but all I wanted to do was get through the grades as quick as I could.

Which, 2 weeks ago, I had a little chat with myself and to be honest I know realise that while doing grades is a great achievement, there has to be some fun in there and its no good playing G8 songs where maybr 50% of notes are not quite there.

For 2 weeks Ive not touched any graded pieces - just worked on studies and im enjoying playing more than ever because I like the sound that im now producing.

I only have one violin teacher in my entire violin career (ableit it's only 1.5years), so I have no one to compare to. But this is how my regular lesson goes:

Tune
Scales:
I usually concentrate on 1 scale a week , depending on how retarded I am that week, I may have to repeat or move on. Scales consist of 3 octaves major and minor. She does not do the relative minor, e.g. I'm working on D major right now, I will also do the D minor, thats the way my book is laid out. I will start with major and minor, then the major and minor tonic appregios, , submediant, sub dominant major and minor, and of course dimininshed and dominant 7th, all 3 octaves. Then broken thirds, chromatic (hate), and double stops. I only do 6ths double stop right now, the others are too hard for my level. As you can see, if I'm retarded that week, this can easily take up 15-20 minutes.

Etudes: 10-15 minutes
I have 2 books of etude. Usually I'm simlatenously working on 2 different techniques. I rarely can pass an etude with just a week, so i'm crawling in this category.

Repertoire: (remaining time)
Although I'm not using Suzuki method, I am using the books in sequence as my main repertoire. But I almost always have something as supplment, she can pick from Kreisler, dancla, mozart sonata, or bach unaccompanied. Lately, she wants me to work on expression, so dancla is what I'm doing in addition to suzuki.

Once every few weeks, i will do 10 minutes sight reading from either an orchestra book, and she'll always play 2nd violin while I play first. or something from a quartet book.

Fairly traditional... I think.

ps I am not Lottie, I am Jo (but I do know I have featured in many of Lottie's threads so maybe that's why you were thinking of Lottie )

I also absolutely LOVE my exercises, I could easily play them for hours on end! and love scales too

and yes, absolutely true I think (although my previous teacher would not agree with us! another reason why I've moved on), I don't see how you can play 'musically' if you don't have the technique behind you, as you say!

and I will join in the 'cheers' for the teachers who take us seriously

am sooooo happy to have found my new teacher

Ooops, sorry Jo, got my wires thoroughly crossed there! I'll blame my ageing brain......or perhaps there was a child trying to talk to me when I was posting! Exercises are such a joy, aren't they? It's even rubbed off on my daughter, who can see why her studies and exercises are important, having watched mother slog away at them and reap the rewards. So glad you are having such a fab experience with your new teacher, long may it last and I wish you all the best with your music making - bet you are like me and are boring all your friends to death telling them how much you love it!

Wolfnotes

It's true that technical exercices are important for practice.

I've learnt viola for one year now but I play the flute at grade 8.

As a child, I never liked playing all the studies for flute, scales and so on. I really found them boring and uninteresting. I have a pretty good technique on the flute but sometimes, very fast notes are not so clear as I would wish.

It's different with viola since I've larnt the value of a good technique. I have several exercices to play and even at my level, my teacher chooses studies of rather high level : studies by Kreutzer and Berta Volmer, scales by Carl Flesch. In fact, for several of them, I don't play all the study but only the first quarter or half.

But what is really important for my teacher is that you don't practice technique for the sake of technique, it must serve the music I play afterwards though he chooses technical exercices that are much more ahead of the pieces of music I play.