We are going to buy my daughter a new flute. We have a budget of up to £4,000. So what should we consider, what shouldn't we look at.
She is 12 and taking Grade 7 sometime this year.
Dora

Wow! Lucky girl!

I just fainted, sorry...

In my defence it is her teacher who says she needs a new flute. That said her current flute is a Miyazawa which cost me about £1,100 2 1/2 years ago. I thought it would last her until she wasn't my responsibility any more but apparently not.
Dora

So probably her teacher has a view as to what you should be buying?

Very surprised that at grade 7+ a new handmade headjoint on her Miyazawa hasn't been mentioned as an option. The mechanism on the Miyazawa should be great & a handmade head joint would make a world of difference & take her to dip level at least (IMHO).
I have a miyazawa 302 with hand made headjoint (14K riser) and the limiting factor is me not the flute setup! If I do a diploma I wouldn't be looking at needing to change the flute/headjoint.
Try some good headjoints 1st - Nagahara, Lafin to name just 2 - see what they sound like 1st. For the amount of money you are looking at a flute will come with a headjoint that is likely to be factory made.

I'm sure she does. We are lucky enough that she is coming with us to try the flutes out, for which I'm very grateful.
I'm just trying to get up to speed fast. I've read Jennifer Cluff's notes on flutes. But these are North America focused and I was hoping to get a more European flavour. This is a huge decision for us. I want to ensure as far as possible that we get a flute that will last her at least 10 years.
The post after yours, which I will reply to separately suggests to me that if we get the right flute now and then the right headjoint, maybe later, that it could last her longer.
Dora

Thank you very much for this. It is very helpful.
I think the big drive for a new flute now is that she isn't putting her fingers properly on the keys and that an open holed flute would make her do this. I'm sure it is also that she would benefit from a better flute. So I guess that is why her teacher isn't making your suggestion. But it makes me think that if we buy a good flute now we could get a better head joint in a couple of years time when there will presumably be more money.
Does that make sense or is it better to get the good headjoint first?
Dora

I would think very carefully about spending this sort of money at this stage. Flutes in the £4K range are still likely to need upgrading at some stage. I would suggest you look at finding an open holed flute if that's what the teacher requires (but only if your daughter's hands will cope with open holes without strain) with a view to upgrading the headjoint at a later stage.

Thank you for this.
Might you have some suggestions of flutes we should look at. I know that it depends on the individual flautist and obviously she and her teacher will be able to decide which one works the best for her, I can't tell at all, but I would hate not to consider a good flute because we didn't know about it. I think in essence that is why I asked the original question. I am absolutely content to leave the final decision to the two of them. I just don't want to miss out a good flute in our search.
Thanks
Dora

I think you are probably worrying unnecessarily here. If you go to a specialist flute dealer (not a general music shop or a general woodwind dealer) they will have more than enough flutes for you to look at. Yes, they won't have every single flute that's currently made, but this doesn't matter - they will have a good selection of quality instruments which will suit a range of players and are priced fairly in terms of what you're getting. You want a reasonable choice, but not an excessive one. 10 or 20 flutes is probably easier to make a choice from than 50 - if there's too many you'll get really confused.

Yes, if you go to a shop and they only have a couple of flutes for you to try then keep looking, even if you do subsequently go back to one of those flutes. A specialist dealer will have a range of flutes from the leading brands (e.g. Altus, Muramatsu, Mateki, Miyazawa, Sankyo, Yamaha, Powell, T. James, Pearl and Haynes amongst others). They may not have all of these brands (stock does vary partly on retailers preferences and also on things like exchange rates and manufacturer output) and may have some others that I haven't listed, but they will have more than enough for Beth to try. When I upgraded last year Muramatsu and Mateki have very low outputs of the kind of flute I was after, but this didn't honestly matter - there were more than enough other flutes for me to try.

If you are looking at open hole models to correct fingering then it is important to make sure that the tuning and intonation is still adequate with the plugs/bungs in. The reality is that a lot of people buy open hole flutes thinking it will solve all their problems, and years later they still haven't managed to correct their fingering enough to remove all the bungs. In general, flutes are designed to be either open holed or closed holed, and putting bungs into an open hole flute to convert it can change things like the resonnance of the instrument, how the air moves along it, the scale, tuning, tone colouring and flexibility. How much this matters depends on the player and what they are wanting to do with their flute playing.

The advice from my teacher when I upgraded (and teachers do have different opinions on this kind of thing - some seem to think that open holes are automatically better even though it really does depend on the player) was that I shouldn't buy an open hole flute unless I could already play it without the bungs. As it happens I did buy an open hole flute, but this was because it was the right flute for me rather than because it was open holed. My final shortlist of flutes which I took on trial consisted of two open hole flutes and one closed hole flute - because in each instance the variant I took on trial was the best version of that particular flute for me.

Without meaning to speak out of turn - would it not be better to wait a little longer before upgrading? If she already has a Miyazawa then surely that's an excellent flute to be going on with - I know plenty of people, myself included, who did grade 8 on battered student flutes; and not because their parents couldn't/wouldn't upgrade, but because they felt it just wasn't necessary. I'm no expert, but it does seem a little over the top to be buying a flute of that calibre now, rather than waiting until she is "musically mature" in several years time. After all, the kind of sound etc she likes now might be different as a young adult. Just my thoughts

I'm going to have to agree with FluteDiva here. I did my G8 on a *cough* lovely TJ beginner flute, which was the one I was bought when I originally started 8-ish years ago. I've since 'upgraded', but for me, a Miyazawa would be a dream flute!

The finger placement problem is not the flute's fault, it is the player's. Surely it is this that needs to be sorted as it's a technique issue. A new flute isn't going to magically solve all the problems. The 'open-holes are better' opinion is great in theory, but as Flossie has already said, some people buy an open-hole instrument and can't play it decently without keeping the plugs in, which completely defeats the point.

It just seems a bit silly to me to be buying a brand new (and very costly) flute when you've so recently purchased a very decent one.

Another thing which has occured to me is that given that Beth is only 12, her mouth/jaw embouchure may well change as she finishes growing. This could mean that the flute which suits her best now might not suit her so well in a year or two's time.

Hi. I don't know much about the technicalities but have been through this process with my daughter. I must agree with the above three posts here really. My daughter gained her grade 8 (distinction) on yamaha 311 having upgraded from a TJ at the same age as your daughter a couple of months before her grade 7. But non of this means it's not a good idea to get a better flute. One reason we didn't upgrade too early (despite money always being an issue for us) was we felt that 12 was so young - children could change their mind about music. In our case our daughter changed first study instrument. We have had to pay out for a professional level bassoon. Choosing it was very time-consuming and was untimately dependent upon my daughter's feel for the instrument. At 16 she showed a lot more musical maturity in making this choice than she ever could have done at 12. We were limited financially and ended up getting a secondhand one (form a professional from one of the big orchestras). I would quite happily have left it another 5 years so she knew herself even better musically but she was committed enough for us to know that she needed this instrument.
So be aware that you may need to make another upgrade in a few years time to a flute that suits your daughter's needs. other then that, your daughter is very lucky - my daughter and her friends could only dream of owning a miyazawa at that age. (she has one now though!)

We've got instrument pressure too at the moment. Firstly for a Cor Anglais which she needs for playing in Orchestra (we have one on loan but it's not reliable). I totally understand why and accept that the instrument she gets now may need upgrading in a few years time, even though we are hopefully going for a Graduate rather than Student model (fingers crossed).

The second pressure is for a handmade Recorder. I have taken the request seriously and agree that she needs something better for Grade 8 and beyond. I'm not sure that it will be handmade. I reasoned for myself and have expressed it to her teacher that what she likes now at 14 may not be what she would pick at 18. Aside from the fact money is non-existant at the moment it's not something I would rush into at this stage.

We too will be looking to upgrade our daughter's flute in the next few months. She is currently playing on a secondhand beginner instrument that I regret having bought. Despite buying it from a reputable shop it has been in for repair many times in the two years we have had it. (The end joint was loose from the word go, and kept falling off, so we took it back and the tightened it, but that has never been right, and it has various other problems) I thought the problems were my daughter, but her teacher tried to play it recently and found he had trouble getting the high notes to sound clearly.

My question is where does one find specialist flute shops? We seem to have very few music shops of any sort round here. (We are in the midlands.)

Pyschologically, if your daughter knows you are about to buy her a new flute then I wouldn't now tell her she cant have it, or that she will just get a new head joint . A new flute might just be what she needs to reinspire her. If you can afford it then I would seriously go and look at them Of course what the other posters have said is very true but sometimes music is made up of much more than common sense.

I would do lots of surfing and reading about all the new models out there in your price range. £4K buys an awful lot of flute... But even models of the same make can perform differently in your hands, you must try them and find a head joint that works for your daughter and a sound that she will fall in love with.

I'm very jealous ! I just treated myself to an Azumi 3000 which is top of my price range (actually that's stretching it) but boy has it made me sit up and get interested all over again. I too have gone from closed to open holes and now it is very much attention to detail ! It's all good stuff as my tutor says

Don

Sorry. I haven't checked this thread for a few days.
London seems to be the answer. I bought the current flute from Normans but they no longer have "good" flutes on their website.
I gather there is a flute shop in Nottingham but London has 3 flute shops. We are going to All Flutes Plus but I would guess the other two are good too. I have always been very reluctant to spend money on "kit" for the children which has meant they have been able to try, and move on with many different activities.
We also started with a second hand flute, a Yamaha 225 which served us well. I got it serviced as soon as we got it and had no trouble with it at all. I bought myself a Yamaha 311 the same way.
Once it was obvious that Beth was really committed to the flute I decided that she needed something better and tried swapping flutes with her. Mine had a silver headjoint and I didn't have any problems playing it. For reasons I don't know Beth couldn't play mine. I went to Normans to try flutes out and I could really hear the difference between the one I bought and my Yamaha so got it for Beth, after she tried in out of course.
I honestly didn't expect to be replacing it only 30 months later but it a way I'm not sure this was avoidable. I'm sure her teacher would have wanted her to have a new flute if I hadn't got her one and she was too small for an open holed flute then.
We are planning to look at second hand flutes in London. The deal is that whatever we buy will see her through to Music College, if that is what she wants to do. Otherwise it will last her for many many years.
It is possible that Beth will change her first instrument. She plays the saxophone well and I expect her to learn the clarinet in due course, she has a beginner's clarinet to learn on.
What Beth really wants is a harp. I'm trying not to go there.
Dora

Beth is counting down the sleeps to getting her new flute. She is very excited. I'm trying to prepare her for the inevitable frustration that is going to come with an open holed flute. I don't think she actually needs reinspiring right now. She has made it into the Wind Orchestra at Birmingham and is very happy with herself right now.
I can see that a piccolo is going to be next on the list and a soprano sax would be very welcome here. The plan is for the flute to last her into Music College.
I don't think I'm going to think about this too much any longer. Toooo expensive.
Dora



I thought I had it tough with 3 Grade 8s aspired to here, flute, sax and piano but Emsoboe is even scarier. What do her teacher's say about her embrouchure. Beth's flute teacher was very unhappy about her taking up the sax, but it doesn't seem to actually be a problem. But everything I read say the oboe and the flute don't work together but Emsoboe seems to cope well.
Interesting.
Dora

Don't rule out the professional headjoint option yet until you've tried things out, Dora. A new professional headjoint on her current flute (or an an equivalent open holed one) may well out play the 'new' flutes in the price band you're looking at. It's worth trying both options and I suspect that Beth will be able to tell what 'feels' and sounds best for her playing - whether that be a new flute or a new headjoint. At the level you're looking at, it's not a question of a new headjoint being a 'lesser' option that a new flute, and some headjoints are a lot more expensive than your budget for a 'new' flute.

Hi Flossie
I want to thank you for your earlier post too. I found it very helpful
We are going to look at headjoints too but Beth's teacher is set on an open holed flute so just a headjoint isn't an option unfortunately. The plan, I think, is to look at the new and second hand flutes they have in and to look at the headjoints too.
I think if it were left to me I'd buy a great open holed flute now and a great headjoint to go on it in a couple of years but I don't think that is going to happen and I suspect my logic is flawed. In reality so long as we walk out with something that is going to last 8 or 9 years I have nothing to complain about.
Beth has a language disorder, and part of that is a great difficulty in making choices(I didn't make this up, it really is part of the disorder), so this makes it harder. I think we will rely heavily on her teacher. Fortunately we have a great relationship with her and we are very lucky that she is coming with us.
Thanks
Dora

Three grade 8's being worked on in various stages and possibly in the next year. Very scary!!

Emsoboe has always played FLute and Oboe and it's never been an issue for her. Perhaps starting them a couple of months apart helped wiht that. Sax effected Flute when she started but she's used to it now.

RNCM weren't happy with Sax and Oboe and offered it on close monitioring. By all accounts the Sax Teacher is determind she will play more Sax so I don't see that becomming an ongoing problem.

Hi Dora. I'm no expert on flute although like you I've got a Yamaha 311 and seem to be doing ok with it - I'll be doing my grade 7 on it next term, and would eventually plan to do grade 8 on it too - and maybe even diplomas.

I remember getting taken to choose my current clarinets after I'd done my grade 8 which was about 8 years ago now. I went for the same make as I was using at the time but a much more professional model. At the time I didn't really know what I was looking for and had in my head that I wanted something from the same make I was using. Now a few years on I am much better informed of what to look for and how to try out clarinets that I would make a much better decision. The end result is that despite having very top end professional clarinets I'm not 100% happy with them and they've devalued so much that selling them will not even get me enough money to buy the ones I do want. I agree with what some others have said that now may not be the right time to spend potentially so much money on an upgrade. It sounds as though the flute she has is very good and that a different headjoint may be a good option. What I'm trying to get at is that a very expensive purchase now may not last Beth as long as you hope because she will change her opinions, her musicianship will develop further and she will physically grow. Whereas if she does go to music college that would probably be a good stage in her playing career to upgrade to a top end instrument. That's just the way I look at it anyway. I do wish that I had waited a little longer to upgrade my clarinets as I would have made a better decision - and I was 19 at the time.

Also if Beth is going to get into doubling then you might appreciate holding off on spending £1000s on one instrument as there will probably be others she wants to acquire.

Good luck with the trying out though! Lucid

Can I hijack this thread for a minute?
I am currently debating over whether to do get new flute, and my parents say they will contribute towards it if so...
I'm working towards grade 8, hopefully spring or definately summer 2010. I currently play on a Yamaha 211, nothing added, probably actually is due a service if I keep it...

A lot of people who have been talking to me suggest a silver headjoint for my 211, my teacher says if I'll be playing considerably at uni (having applied for joint music degree if I get in), then it would be worth upgrading the lot. I don't know if I'll opt for performance modules or not, depends on how A2 music recital and gr8 go really... but I'd be looking to join the wind band and orchestra regardless.

Anyway, I wanted to know what you all think. Money, obviously is a factor, and I know it won't be cheap, but nothing over £2000 really...I've been pointed in the direction of a Yamaha 411 or a handmade 311.

What should I do, hold off until after grade 8 and A2 recital, or would it be better to upgrade before them, or not at all?

Thanking you in advance
Fluterocks

Hi Fluterocks, I'd aim for an entry-level Miyazawa or Altus rather than a Yamaha 311/411 with that budget. It would also be very worthwhile to see what's available secondhand.