Would like some advice from the more experienced, please!
I have agreed with a parent to accompany them to a piano dealer (best part of an hour away but they're driving) to advise them on what kind of piano I think their child should have.
I am more than happy to do so as I am not doing anything that morning and like looking around piano shops.
However should I be charging for this kind of service? If so - what kind of rate might be appropriate?

Secondly, this term I am entering students for exams for the first time. I have paid for the exam entry fees myself doing the online entry using my credit card and am getting parents to pay me back with cheques. Is this the usual way to go about it?

I think it is more than likely that some students are going to get their exam times when their parents are working. As the students in question live in the same village as me, and the exam centre is fairly local, I don't mind driving them there myself if necessary (if not doing anything else). Is this a usual kind of thing to do, and should I be charging for that also?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, but as I have not done these things before, I am not sure what the "norm" is.

Thanks for any help,

Jo.

If helping to choose a piano I wouldn't charge but if it wasn't a new one i'd suggest getting a piano tuner to check it out for the reasons that Cambiata has stated.

I wouldn't pay up front for exam fees but only put in entries after having received the money.
I agree about driving children. Not a good idea unless you are VERY friendly (in the habit of looking after said children apart from music lessons) or related. I explian carefully to parents how the exam appointments work before putting in exam entries so that they know the exam is very likely to be during the working day and that the notice may onlty be around 2 weeks.

My views :

No, don't really want to get involved with chosing the actual piano but am always happy to give general guidelines/makes etc.

I do snail mail entry and get the parents to write out the cheques directly to the ABRSM and then mail them off - nothing goes through my account and the parents have to pay by the entry date.

I'm quite happy to drive them to the exam (it's over an hour away) as it seems eco-very-unfriendly having five cars going for five pupils. I take a car load and another parent takes another car load and there's never been a problem (touch wood). I don't charge.

I think a general rule of thumb is to do what you feel comfortable with - if you really enjoy going to piano shops then do it for free - it gives you a few brownie points and costs you nothing. If you feel uncomfortable driving the kids, then don't - the parents can sort out their own arrangements.

Our piano teacher recommended places to look for a new piano. I then took my daughter and let her play them. I didn't feel it was a decision I could help with much (grade 3 thirty years ago) but as she was only twelve at the time (although grade 6) I made sure she noted the feel of the keys /action , dynamics etc and compared them. Even so I then asked our piano teacher to go and visit the one she had chosen (new) before spending all that money. I don't think he charged us for his time, but I think he called in there on his way back from somewhere, but I would have been happy to pay if he had asked. After all we were spending several thousand pounds, so a couple of hours of his time would have been small in comparison. Similarly we were accompanied by the clarinet teacher when she chose her new clarinet, and weren't charged. Again we went when the teacher was going to the shop anyway and fitted in with her.

I would think it unusual for the teacher to take pupils to the exam as the teacher usually has to be there for several pupils, and the pupil would just turn up for their exam. I wouldn't even expect the teacher to be there for a piano exam as no accompanying is necessary.

I agree. I don't put anyone in for an exam until I have the fees in my hand!

If we can get away from all the litigation/child protection issues that blight our society, I think teacher taking pupils to exams en masse actually has huge benefits. I used to do it all the time, when my only pupils were very local, and the only reason I don't do it now is that there are too many, and they are too spread out. The kids have fun when they go together, it's less of an ordeal, and I used to ask them all to bring along a few pounds each so we could all go for ice cream or something afterwards. It's good for them, too, not to have a nervous parent in tow, which can make an otherwise 'ok' child get into a state - like going to the dentist. When it's only you there, you have control in the waiting room as well and the children don't get mixed messages about how to feel. And you're there to reassure, practically, after the event if required. Parents can be overly dramatic if something has gone wrong.

(I never charged for this, by the way. Just be careful, though, that the parents understand that it's not guaranteed that you'll do it all the time - it just 'suits at the minute' - so you don't get resentment when you have more pupils and can't.)

And do make sure everybody has all the necessary books before you set off! I had to turn back once with six kids in the car, driving like #### Turpin, in order to collect a forgotten book, risking everybody missing their appointments.

O good grief... the censor doesn't approve of Mr. Turpin....

Years ago, I had violin lessons at primary school and when I took grade one the violin teacher, who was accompanying us, picked us up from school, drove us to the exam centre and took us back to school afterwards.

I have no idea whether anyone paid her for this.

I have vague memories of my recorder exam when I was seven. We were taken en masse from school, but all I can remember is getting in a lift and the doors closing, separating a couple of us from the teacher and not knowing what to do to find the teacher again, and having a nose bleed at the station on the way home.

I must have been a total nightmare for the teacher to cope with. I saw the teacher at an old girls get together at the school a few years ago and she made it clear the only thing she remembered about me was the recorder exam.

I wouldn't drive any of my students to a piano exam, because I was under the impression that as it would constitute business purposes it would invalidate my insurance - please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm really not sure.

I have been along to help find new piano's, but make it aware that this is not as someone who knows anything technical about the piano, and I do the same with regards exam entries, although I like the idea of Dolce's method.

Way back when I did grade exams say (1955-62), my teacher usually had sufficient exams the same day to hire a small coach for all the entrants and mothers (usually mothers then as they weren't working) to go the 20 miles from Keighley to Leeds (Church Institute in Albion Street, possibly demolished now). Teacher came too. Of course the exams were spread throughout a few hours but they went shopping before the return trip. I also suspect that few familes had cars then (we didnt get one till 1964 when Mum Dad and I all started lessons - I was the first to pass !). But one year the three (LCM) teachers in Keighley managed to get their act together to establish an exam centre in Keighley. I think only one teacher did AB then.
On the organ which I did AB, AB sent an eaxminer all the way to Keighley to our own church just to examine two candidates. One was the well known violist Watson Forbes. When I did Grade 8 there was just me, and it was the Carlisle Cathedral man, quite a trip for him. I dont think that would happen now.

I think you might be right - but if you're not charging (that could be the crux if it came to the bit), and make it clear to the parents that you're doing it as 'a favour to friends' - just giving them a lift - and not for financial gain I think it should be okay. I've helped out by transporting school kids in my own car for a school trip (a small number with particular interest in a musical event that I was asked to take them to) and this was the understanding. They were under the care of a friend (me) for that time rather than the school; they had been excused from school for me to take them, in the same way that a family friend might take a child to the dentist if the parent couldn't get away from work.

If you don't mind input from a student... it sounds as if you're a new teacher, and I would advise being cautious about doing things which seem OK now, but which you couldn't sustain when you get more pupils. You won't always have spare time to look round piano shops with parents, and you could end up doing this free-of-charge when you could be earning money teaching, preparing lessons, CPD etc. Re exam fees, I've always been asked to pay before the date of entry and again, when you get more pupils, it will be a sizeable sum to fork out and chase up.

Particularly if you live in a village, word is going to get round that you do this and that, and it will become very difficult to change any precedent that you set now. As a business person, I would recommend looking to the future, and setting precedents which will suit your future business when you have less time to spare and more students to enter into exams.

Incidentally the Rough Guide to Piano has a really good section in it on buying a piano, and it might at least give the parents some ideas of what to look for and what questions to ask. I know there are online sites which give guidance as well but I haven't got any links I'm afraid.

Good luck with your students' first exams!

I collect in the cheques a week before the entry date and fill in the forms and send the lot to our local representative, using registered mail. I will occasionally write a cheque for the entry fee and let the parent pay me later if there is a genuine reason for the cheque not arriving and if I am sure I can count on them to pay me.

I am fortunate in that the exam centre here is actually the school where I teach so I don't have the problem of transport - they just come as they would to a normal lesson.

However I don't charge for accompanying my own pupils (and with one exception there have been no others). Since I have to be present anyway as there is no one else to do the ushering, welcome the representative and the examiner etc I don't think the parents would feel very happy if I asked them to pay me to accompany. but then we are a very small centre and not in the UK so things are a bit different.

I won't advise except very generally on the purchase of instruments - too much responsibility. I give general guidlines but explain that I am not a technician. However I did do some research on the net for a child who needed a good quality treble recorder and that paid off as I discoverd Saunders Recorders.

I have to admit to being happy to help choose pianos too - with no charge and no preconditions or opt-out clauses! I make them understand, obviously, that you get what you pay for, generally, and that I'm going by what it sounds like, and what it feels like to play, though I do look inside it as well. Dealers will usually have fixed anything that needed fixing before you see it. When it's a private sale I'd just quite simply say whether or not I'd buy it myself in their position for the money being charged. What I don't like is somebody being persuaded by a sales assistant into a digital just because they have a bigger mark-up on that.

These are such important questions so you are completely right to ask - no only for child (and your) protection but also in terms of setting precedents which can be difficult to change.

My children do exams through various channels - private teachers, school and a music centre. In all cases it is parental responsibility to ensure the child arrives at the exam centre at the correct time. The only time a teacher has been there at the exam centre is in the case of singing exams where she is also the accompanist and they do a few warm ups first - and I pay the accompaniment fee which of course I am happy to do because I am paying for her skill and time (plus the children have rehearsed with her so are comfortable with her and know her playing style) - but I still get my child to the venue on time.

If parents are willing to have their children entered, then I think they have to take responsibility for getting there there. The only time the school take responsibility for this is when the choir has entered a competition and they go en masse. However, for verse speaking we all have to take our own children individually or we make a shared arrangement between us.

In all instances with my children, cheques are made payable to the area representative and given to the various teachers before a certain date - then presumably he lodges them all into his account and i think he enters everyone online.

My daughter's friend didn't bring her exam money by the date and she didn't get entered. She was gutted but she didn't forget the next time. It's as strict as that here, but at least the area rep is never out of pocket - which is an important concern.

Elizabeth

I didn't realise they did that.

Wow what a lot of helpful replies - thanks everybody! That has certainly given me some food for thought.
It's really nice that so many people have taken the trouble to cover everything so comprehensively.

Jo

I don't (yet) teach piano, but FWIW:

I am well-off enough to take the risk that one or two parents will default on exam fees, but if I were not I would insisit on payment in advance.

I will happily try out a few pianos for friends and eliminate the obvious clunkers, but I would not recommend a purchase. On finding a good one I'd say something like this:

"This one plays well, feels good, sounds right, and everything seems to work. But you should have it checked by a piano technician for any hidden flaws before making any decision about it."

there would have to be some limit on the number. The friend should come up with a short list of not more than 4 or 5 pianos that seem OK to them and in budget, and my job would be to narow the choice down further - but NOT to make the final recommendation.

1:- my creepy old man asked me to look at a piano with him and he offered to pay me..... oh er....
i wouldn't charge to go with them, at the end of the day they are going to use you as a teacher??
let them buy you lunch, or make a point that you are free, there are no lessons planned at the moment see if they make an offer to you. take the money and run hahhahaaa

2:- i enter via the internet, then i print off the acknowledgement or the exam fee form and highlight their payment and they write the cheque out to me... it's easier that way......

3:- i don't take them to the venue, if i'm not accompanying them on piano ( i teach flute and piano)... in this day and age, i would find it unappropriate if their parents aren't there... no, let their parents take them, they now about the forthcoming exam, you will have about 2weeks notice, so it's easy for them to take time off work, you can be there on their first exam if you like.... and then when they are used to the venue they can find their own way and be there on their own... otherwise just text, email or phone them later to see how they got on.. if the parents insist that you take them, charge a small mileage expense fee..... upto .45p mile
my music teachers were always there for me but didn't charge me, infact my flute teacher took me out later to calm my nerves!!! hahahaa...

but then i work full time and can't take the time to take all my students to their exam

hope this is of some help towards you making your mind up...... good luck

I don't charge for helping with buying a piano. I think it's good to offer this service for free.

I also do the online entries for ABRSM then add it to their next bill or ask for a cheque if the entry has been done at the beginning of term. So far have not had any problems with this system.