I was thinking about doing the DipABRSM and had looked at the pre-requisites and all and found everything was OK. THat is until I sat down with the syllabus document in more detail. It seems that if you have your grade 6 theory then it doesn't matter when you did it, 40 years ago and that's still fine. If, however, your equivalent experience is in the form of a university music course other than one at the RAM or RNCM then you have to have done it in the last 5 years. So because I did my university music course in 1995 I now have to go back and do my grade 6 theory exam - more expense, more waiting around for the examination sessions! Have I read this right? How come some qualifications will apparently last you forever and others it seems you will forget everything after 5 years? My grade 5 theory, which I did several years previously to the university course, is still good for exemptions when required.

Have I just got the wrong end of the stick here?

Just a minor point of correction: it does matter when you took your Grade 6 theory; it has to be with the current syllabus. I have Grade 6 theory twice as a result.

Yes, it's the teaching one. That is very interesting, though. The syllabus allows you to make a substitution from a list, and that list includes "relevant professional experience" and it seems the 5 year time limit applies only if you are substituting using professional experience. However the paragraph goes on to say that "full-time music courses other than those listed in the table" are considered to be professional experience, not courses/examinations! OU A214 is listed specifically, so it is one of the "courses in the table" so the time limit doesn't apply, but my course from a different university is "professional experience" so has to be less than 5 years old, it appears. How very confusing!! If I had the sort of money to do my exams over and over again I would be far more qualified by now!

Perhaps we should all have to re-do our qualifications if they are too old? I mean, I sat my grade 8 in 1994, that's quite a while ago now, but that's acceptable going forward even though that skill deteriorates far more quickly than the theory, I think. It's hard, as you never really know what someone has been doing since their exam, they could have put their instrument in a drawer or might have been playing regularly at a high level, but there's only some sorts of proof that can ever be any good. I have the same problem with a university course as I haven't got the grade in an exam they are looking for because I can't afford the exam fee, and if I paid the exam fee I can't afford the university course!

So, this seems to have all come out in the wash, I await my final decision after sending off all the papers they asked for. The AB agrees it's not terribly clearly put in the syllabus, but it is only practical professional experience that has to be in the last 5 years. Exams, although listed under "relevant professional experience" are not subject to this expiry. One hopes perhaps they might change the wording next time it's revisited.

mayi suggest that you look at another board e.g tg or lcm as they are not as rigid as abrsm

(Only if you wish to be thrown off the Forum!)

It's not quite that they are not as rigid, just that each board's qualifications have different content. The DipABRSM doesn't require you to demonstrate any of certain things in your examination or written work so you need a certificate saying you already know it. Other boards like TG require totally different written work with content about creating and demonstrating a teaching resource which I seem to recall has to have some theory element to it also. So they are testing the same stuff, but within the diploma examination. But theirs comes out more expensive as a diploma entry alone (though perhaps not much difference if you add a grade 6 theory and then the diploma together) and with more new work to be produced. If you already know this stuff then it's quicker and cheaper to go AB and not have to demonstrate your theory in the diploma examination but in the theory exam room. If you don't already have the knowledge then it might be easier to go with TG and demonstrate a different, but complementary, skillset. To each what fits.

It also seems that a GCSE O-level music is accepted in place of Grade 5 theory, no ,matter how long ago it was taken.

An A* in GCSE music passed this summer is not an acceptable substitute for grade 5 theory in applying to take practical exams in grades above 5 (I asked). Presumably this is on the grounds that it is possible to pass GCSE music without being able to read music (!). However, I would be very surprised if it were possible to get an A* without reading music. Still, the board has spoken. I cannot imagine that the fees they will garner from all those grade 5 theory exams they would otherwise miss out on has anything to do with it.

Yes, I find it odd that an A-level in theoretical music (not sure what it's like now, but at the time it was possible to take 2 separate exams in practical and theoretical. I have a B in theoretical music A-level, but apparently that's not a qualification equivalent to grade 8 theory either. I have a similar cynicism about that...

Typo - I meant GCE not GCSE. And the old GCE is accepted, even if the GCSE is not.

I used my A -level Music Grade A as a substitute for the grade 6 theory to enter for the Dip ABRSM in teaching - maybe that's where they rank the A-level, as opposed to being equivalent to Grade 8? Doesn't really make sense to me though. I don't know where I heard this, but I was always under the impression that Grade 8 practical and Grade 8 theory equals an A-level in music, in terms of entry requirements for Uni? Is there any shread of truth in that? If so, then surely, if you had A level music AND Grade 8 practical you'd be more than qualified to enter for a diploma requiring Grade 8 theory?

It really is baffling!

In terms of entry for university the relevant authorities allocate points for a variety of things that are hard to quantify if not directly relevant to the course. I am quite prepared to believe that, in terms of university entrance, a grade 8 practical plus a grade 8 theory adds up to the same score as an A level in music for most purposes. You might also find that a grade 8 practical plus an advanced diving certificate add up to the same score as an A level in music, as would an A level in Geography. I would not be quite so confident that such "generic" scores would still be considered equivalent for a course that specifically required music.

OK, response is that I need to provide a professional reference to go with the paperwork. I am not working professionally in a music capacity because I intend to start doing that after I have the diploma, which I cannot enter without a professional reference. Thing is, it may be that I have forgotten everything I ever learned (I don't think I have because the grade 6 theory papers didn't look like anything I couldn't do) but what bothers me is the double standard. Someone with a grade 6 theory from 1995 might have forgotten it all too, but that's OK for them to teach. Almost nobody from my grade 5 theory crammer course can remember a single thing, but they are just as OK to go on and do grade 8 practical as those who remember everything.

I don't mind jumping through free hoops! It's £31.40 hoops I have a problem with, that's over 1/3 of my weekly income. Trinity doesn't need G6 theory but their diploma costs twice as much and involves twice as much written work, so nothing saved.

Anyway, I've had about 40 times as many hoops to jump through that others don't need to bother with, and it seems that if one has been out of the workforce for a few years recovering from a serious illness everyone assumes you have been in prison and wants a reference from someone who has worked with, and when you have been in bed in your bedroom for literally years that's easier said that done! I'm tired of spending 1-5 years qualifying for a career and then having it all thrown back at me because the professional membership costs more than you can earn in 4 hours a week, or that nobody takes responsibility for access because it's all "someone else's problem", or that I need a piece of paper that I cannot possibly own because I literally don't know anyone at all. It's all getting rather tiresome now. I didn't feel that comfortable starting to teach without a qualification, but if money to pay for the exam is the obstacle rather than lack of knowledge then I don't think that should be the thing that holds me back.