Ok,
I am a 'string person' (or so I thought 'until today'), I have been learning the violin for 2 yrs and 3/4 and the double bass since 6 months ago.

Where I work they have 'lunchtime concerts' every monday.

I am always too busy and never stop to listen, just walk past them (they are in a hall along the main corridor). Today I stopped and sat down to eat my lunch whilst these people were playing clarinets!

OK, there was a guy with a 'funny looking and long instrument', didn't think much of it, UNTIL HE PLAYED IT!!!

it was LOVE AT FIRST EAR

I have never fallen in love so quickly with an instrument, it was AMAZING, I have listened to many woodwind/brass instruments before, some don't do anything to me, some I think 'that's cute' but never had the wish to actually play any of them.
This one 'grabbed me' and there I was seriously thinking of buying one and learn to play it!

I asked the guy ' what are you playing'
he said: it's a bass clarinet!!

Now, I am posting in a woodwind forum so I would imagine most of you will try and persuade me to give in to 'the force' and join the woodwind clan

I am posting here as I would like real constructive honest advice (taking into account my situation).

I am 40 yr old, single parent, I work 6 days a week. I am learning violin and double bass and don't intend to stop or relax on either of these two. I am about grade 5 on both of these. I do actually find it difficult to dedicate the time to both these instruments as I am a 'perfectionist' by nature and whatever I do I never 'play enough' or 'practice enough'.
How do I get this bass clarinet out of my head? or 'should I get it out of my head'???

If I wanted to self learn is it a possibility, knowing full well how important the input of a teacher is, but is there any 'dangers' on self learning the bass clarinet?

Do I have to learn the normal clarinet at all? if so this would 'put me off' as it is an instrument which does 'not call me' (now anyway)
will I get many opportunities to play in amateur orchestras or groups with a bass clarinet?

what are the positives and negatives about it?

can I really get anywhere with my learning if I only have a couple of sessions a week to dedicate to it?

not sure what else to ask you all but anything you have to say will be good.

thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuuu SO MUCH in advance

PS I should have NEVER stopped at this concert in the first place

Hmm. Well. The clarinet is my *cough* fourth instrument (or 5th if you count me learning cello at school) so I'm not an expert at clarinet things...

However, I would have thought it would be helpful to start off on a standard Bb clari (even if it's just for 2-3 months) and then pick up the bass one once you've got the hang of the basics. I would imagine that a bass clari would be more resistant and therefore harder to blow etc (although I could be completely wrong here - I'm using flutes as my basis for saying this). If you want to play in an orchestra or band then one of the clarinet players usually doubles onto bass clarinet as the bass clari is required less than the standard Bb and A claris - you might have to do an awful lot of sitting around if you only played the bass clari, unless the orchestra/band arranges it's own music and wrote a part for you. Playing in an informal group which didn't have prescribed parts might work better if you only want to do bass clari. You could probably find some basso continuo parts from baroque chamber things which you could adapt.

I know what you mean about falling in love with instruments. I really want an alto flute because I just love their sound...

Edit: I've just had a look at some websites http://www.howarth.uk.com/clarinets.html http://www.wwr.co.uk/BassClarinets/cid710/BassClarinets.asp http://www.myatt.co.uk/shop/page.php?cat=1348 Hope you're feeling rich!

All I can say is that this happened to me with piano and I've never regretted it. I'd never had a particular desire to learn piano, never thought I'd be able to co-ordinate my fingers, only got one to help with theory, but as soon as I touched a single key when I got it, that was IT

My progress isn't fast because I still love my clarinet as well, and regrettably Life often gets in the way, but I'm so glad I started lessons to learn how to play it properly. I have a lesson once a fortnight, and I'm not going to be proficient any time soon, but I just love the sound it makes and the way the keys fall under my fingers

You can probably tell that I'm with Oscar Wilde on this matter... "the only way to get rid of a temptation is to give in to it"

Go and lie down in a darkened room and wait for the sensation to pass.

(I cant talk - serial offender guilty of multiple instrument purchases....)

So you don't have unlimited spare time ...

In which case I doubt that you would be satisfied with mediocrity, or at best becoming moderately competent, on three instruments rather than being really good at one.

I think you have to decide whether it is really " your " instrument - in which case it is bye-bye violin and double bass,

or if it is a temporary infatuation.

Asking for information here is a good start. So listen to it some more. Try to borrow one to get the feel of it. Investigate the repertoire. Then decide.

Here is a useful link to help: http://www.worldbassclarinet.com/links.htm

Saxophones get less resistant as they get bigger, you need more air, and the bigger instruments are more prone to leaks which can make them difficult, but you've really only got to breathe into a properly set-up bari for it to speak.

Thanks for that TSax. Claris and Saxes are obviously the opposite to flute for this - alto flutes tend to be more resistant than concert flutes (although they do need a looser embouchure which some people might find easier). Shows the danger of applying logic from one instrument to another!

Large clarinets do indeed share the same sort of characteristics here as large saxophones.

They're a similar shape?

thank you so far to everyone

A) thankfully time is a 'healer' and letting things 'settle' has helped as I am no longer in danger to go and buy a bass clarinet 'off the internet' as a 'spur of the moment' thing anymore. Your replies have helped 'process' things in my head and has led me to look for more info on this beautiful instrument on the internet

B) ok, so bass clarinet on its own is rather a 'solitary life' as it's not used that much so one 'should' play clarinet and bass clarinet so to be in 'full time demand'. Thankfully I think I am not 'crazy' about the clarinet (the soprano version) but I might be wrong. BUT I don't 'dislike' the soprano clarinet at all so.....

C) I have looked at prices through the links posted in reply to my thread, and boy, the bass clarinet prices are putting me off a bit. If I was rich then who cares, a bass clarinet here, a bassoon there LOL but am rather poor so I think the price is enough to keep my 'crazy thoughts at bay' for now

D) as Mad Tom highlighted, I have little time on my hands and 'am a perfectionist' so is it realistic 3 instruments unless I 'settle' for being really good at one and 'ok' on the others? or in between on all 3?

thinking of A/B/C/D I have not reached a firm conclusion but I think I might have found a 'this will do for now' answer which is:

- I might look for a Bflat or A clarinet to rent or buy on the cheap side and a couple of books with the aim to 'self teach' on a very laid back attitude, meaning 'NO stress to perform, NO worries to have to practice for my next lesson, no strings attached'
- I will 'pick up' the clarinet whenever I have the desire, this might be every day or once a month, if it is once a month it does not matter that I will never improve, I am picking it up just because I feel like it.
- If this instrument tells me more than it tells me now in future I will see then if I want to invest more time/money/get lessons, if I lose my interest in it totally I can then sell the clarinet (return it to shop)
- The violin and the double bass remain my main instruments (violin is the first and always will be) and on these I will carry on with lessons and aim to practice daily and improve all the time.

ok, does this make any sense?

now I shall go and look at clarinets (soprano ones), shall I go for A or Bflat? I understand the difference is minimal with the A going a semitone lower than the Bflat in the bass clef
any main difference between the two?
which one shall I go for?
I read Bflat is the most common one

thank you all!


PS I know that on string instruments and piano if you don't have a teacher in the very beginning you are at high risk to learn very bad habits which can result even in physical injuries in the future, is it the same on clarinet??
if I have no intention to do grades or practice regularly, can I self teach for now?

yes...and they both have reeds...

But back on topic - see how you get on with a Bb clarinet, and then think whether you feel you've got enough time to devote to another instrument. If you feel you have enough time, go for it jojo!



Bb is the way to go to start with jojo. If you get into clarinet really seriously you'll probably want an A, but Bb will give you all you need for now.



You can learn in bad habits on the clarinet, yes. Mainly centred around breathing and embouchure (one of the most common is not giving the clari warm enough air). Keep a close eye on your hand position too (particularly the right hand, and the right thumb...this again is very easy to get wrong - don't support the clari too close to the base of your right thumb).

All the best jojo

Bb.

The music you learn early on will (generally...) be written for Bb. The A clari is mainly an orchestral instrument although I think there is some intermediate/advanced repertoire music written for it (I seem to remeber Dawn getting caught out by this with some music she got of ebay - although I may have miss-remembered this).

The big one here is the Mozart Clarinet Concerto : although there are Bb versions in print, it's generally regarded as better on an A.

Ok both Flossie and Barry Clari say Bb

keep the suggestions flowing in guys/girls, I am off to read about reeds/cleaning the instrument/maintanance and good learners book in the meantime

oh and yes, I will go and play Bass and violin too soon (I need to do one hour on violin 40 mins on bass!!! )

There's a load about those things on the forum : if there's anything you can't find, do let me know, and hopefully I'll have the answer jojo...

Barry should be able to point you towards some decent dealers in your area Jo.

Looking at your location jojo, yes I can!

Depending on what bit of Surrey you're in, I'd head for either Jonathan Myall, in Croydon, or Dawkes, which is in Maidenhead, but is an easy journey from much of the western side of Surrey.

THank you, although am looking at rental right now, Howarth in London renting the Buffet E13 for £34 a month, I quite fancy a 'wooden clari'. I work in central london, I 'could' nip down there after work (I finish at 4 and they close at 5:30) and maybe come home with it tomorrow?

ps I live in South Croydon

Ooh, well have a look at the oboes while you're there

DO NOT start me off on some other instrument now 'pushpull'

Oh crumbs, you're no distance from Myall's then, and you have a decent train service to London (I'm in Croydon quite a lot, often visiting Cyrilla, or shopping, or catching a gig at the Fairfield Halls...).

If you're going to go wooden to start with, be aware that wooden clarinets are heavier, and they'll need breaking in : you can't play it for ages in the first three weeks or so. This is to avoid it cracking.

I have a feeling you'll get home tomorrow and you'll have a clari...

even more of a reason to go wooden then! was reading just now I am not supposed to play it longer than 20 minutes at a time with a break of 4 hours in between!
No danger of me overdoing that I can assure you! spending nearly 2 hours on violin and bass I really doubt I'll spend anymore than 20 minutes on the clari.
and of course I'll have to take care of it more ie: temperatures/maintanance etc, a lot to learn (again)

I also get the same feeling (logging a clari all the way home from howarth LOL )

I will ring them from work tomorrow and if they have it on the shelf I shall go and rent it!

ps I ride my motorbike to work, no trains for me, can't do 'public crowded transport'
the violin usually gets strapped on back of motorbike, the clari will travel home this way.

pps I don't strap my double bass to the back of the motorbike I have a car I ONLY use to take my son to cricket practice and lug my bass to lessons LOL

The E13 is quite a common clarinet : I should think they'll have one jojo!

My theory with breaking in is 20 minutes at a time in the first week, with a decent break, 30 in the second, 45 in the third, then you can play when you like

Have fun : and do feel free to give me a shout/PM if you want any help

I think the bass clarinet has a beautiful velvety tone and sounds fantastic as part of a small ensemble.

But...

A clarinetist in our wind band decided to switch to bass clarinet last year. The conductor is too polite to say anything, but it's such a waste. She plays towards the back with the other bass instruments and of course the sound is totally lost with all the saxophones and trumpets around.

What makes it worse is that we desperately need her up at the front playing soprano clarinet!

Still, just think! Once you've learned them, you get to do things like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta8DDABEK8c

Steve

Thank you Steve for that clip and your thoughts,
you are right, the bass clarinet is better in small quartets, you can appreciate it more

and it sounds absolutely beautiful in the clip you pointed out, I LOVED IT!

Hey the oboe is not "some other instrument".

Speaking of which, you made a comment about "resistance" earlier with regard to the bass clart and it was mentioned that the bigger bore instrument have lower resistance. The oboe has a tiny bore and a tiny hole in the reed to blow air through. As a result it has high resistance but that shouldn't automatically be regarded as meaning hard to play. Yes it feels tough when you first start but once you are used to the feel of it there isn't really an issue. On the benefit side you don't use much air (though that in itself opens another can of worms which I shan't go into). After getting on for 2 years the oboe is easier for me to blow than a recorder (because the air "lasts" longer). Personally I can't get much of a sound out of a clarinet or sax (not that I've tried much).

Anyway:

ended up getting a Yamaha 650 instead of a Buffett E13, why?

A) The shop I was going to rent the Buffett from does not give you the option to keep the instrument at the end, the rental price for Buffett E13 was £34 per month and had to pay 3 months in advance

B) The shop I bought my violin and double bass from does a purchase scheme where you pay a small deposit and can then pay the rest of the instrument over 24 months interest free. You KEEP the instrument after this and stop paying after your 24 monthly payments. If for any reason you wish to return the instrument at any time in the 24 months, you return it then you don't have to pay anything more, you only get 3 months of payments back though.
The monthly payments for the Yamaha 650 turned out to be £29 (£5 less than renting the Buffett with NO option to keep it at the end)

so in my opinion I think I did better this way, I think they are 2 clarinets very similar in standard from what I've read.

Anyway tonight I'll have fun trying to get a note out of it. The man in the shop showed me how to put it together etc

Happy clarinetting.

Wooden claris are often more resistant than the plastic ones and therefore harder to start with, so stick at it if that first note is a bit elusive to start with. I started on a wooden clari, so it's perfectly doable.

You are right Flossie - the music i bough SHOULD have had both inserts though. A lot of music is written for either or both claris but Bb is definitely most common. I don't have an A nor do I need one. If I were to play orchestrally though I think it would be handy as a lot of orchestral music is written for A.

If you are playing alone or with piano it doesn't really matter which you play as the parts can be transposed (either for piano or clarinet) but in an orchestra it all needs to fit and some keys are much more suited to A than Bb.

Incidentally, The Bass Clarinet in our concert band has a part for most pieces and we have a lot in our repertoire. It doesn't get many interesting parts but the low notes can be to die for

.... realises I've never played or tried to play Bass Clarinet.... Wouldn't mind a try sometime though......

All the best with this Jojo

The yamaha 650 is a VERY good instrument (standard wise) for a beginner's needs. A new instrument (wooden or otherwise) will be a lot easier than many of the school ones so many young beginners start off on. Mine was Sooooooo hard to blow It was a relief when I finally got my own instrument (even though plastic) a few months/year or so later.


Happy clarinetting jojo.

thank you Dawn and Flossie

I only just got home but will give it a go this evening, I might even record my 'very first attempt to blow a note on clarinet' as I think it may be 'funny' to watch in future.

I bought the 'new tune a day' book 1 and 2, they will last me for a long time as I only plan to do this 'very part time' and laid back

In the near future I will contact a teacher and ask him or her if I can have like a 'consultation lesson' once every 3 months 'just to make sure' I am not doing something really bad with it but won't be any more often than once in 3 months as this is 'just for fun', I already fork out a huge amount in lessons for violin and bass! I have weekly one hour lessons on violin and fortnightly one hour on bass at present.

anyway, watch this space as they say

Wonderful! I'll be very interested to hear how you get on jojo : all the best in your clarinetting!

I sent you a link to my first 10 minutes on clarinet, BUT do NOT watch it if you already feel depressed as it may finish you off

it was 'weird' I must say (my first 20 minutes practice with the clari and no one to show me how to do it), there really is a 'trick' there to produce a sound and boy, what a long way from a good sound I am

But I found it interesting and it has not put me off, I am ready for more

I'll have to get used to the 'setting up' and 'cleaning/stowing away' routine, I didn't like that, but I like to look after my instruments so I will always do this carefully and with patience

PS I played notes: C, D, E, F, G but when I got to the A I found it REALLY hard to play! is this normal?

Yeah That's what they all say

You loved it enough to go out and rent, with a view to keeping, a good quality clarinet in such a short space of time. It'd be a shame not to play it more often.... Go onnnn..... You know you want to


Seriously though.... I wonder if you have any music centre type set up near you (or even if that kind of thing exists anymore ) where once you get started you could join with others of a similar level and enjoy a bit of music making ??? As I'm sure you know from your other instruments playing in a group situation can help as you can share hints/tips with each other etc etc etc...

Jojo is in an area I know reasonably well, I'll have a think

hehehe I LOVE music so I will not be surprised if I do end up playing it every day, but just to make it clear that the clari will NOT take priority over the violin and the bass, they have the 'throne' (especially the violin, that's the 'king', bass 'the queen' and clari the 'joker' )
so in my extremely busy week if I am tight for time (and that is just about 6 days a week), lets say 'tighter than usual' then clari will have to stay put in the case

I am worried though, I hope I am not going down the road of the 'instrument addiction' here, it can be extremely expensive and dangerous

I understand what you are saying. It can also be extremely enjoyable playing more than one instrument especially of different types So enjoy!!

Hmm... this reminds me of somebody... I wonder who?

Check the first line of my signature.....

It did take 2 years to get to that stage though.

as I don't know the story, care to tell?

I’d also heartily recommend the “take up the clarinet” beginner books by Graham Lyons. There are two of them

book 1 here

book 2 here

ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh I love music and I love MUSIC BOOKS too, am at work right now and musicroom is 'blocked' from work pc so will have a look when I get home tonight thank you for the pointer

Hi Jojo,

I've followed your thread with great interest but haven't really had anything to add to what others have said up to now! However, I would like to second Little Elf's recommendation above re the Graham Lyons books - I used them in school in the eighties and when I started playing again a couple of years ago, I bought new copies so that I could recap some of the basics. I also used A Tune A Day as a beginner but I understand that A New Tune A Day is also very good - I have a copy of the former and although it's a good beginner book, it is very dated in places!!

Just out of interest, I think you said that you had originally heard a bass clarinettist playing at work - will you get an opportunity to chat to him or her? I'm sure they would be thrilled to know that they had inspired you in such a way!

All the very best with your clarinetting!

Hi Clarijo,
no I won't see these clarinettists anymore (is that how you call them? )
every monday we have different people from different places/walks of life coming to play in the hall. I don't know who they are or where they came from!
It's all their fault and they should be told off

Took up clarinet to do the forum grade 1 challenge. I'd played at school 35 years ago but forgotten everything except which way up.
I wasn't sure whether it would be 'just an expensive toy' but was lucky enough to have another forum member lend me a clarinet. Started playing in local orchestra after 2 weeks (mostly spectator sport). I was able to cope with this because of previous general music experience. Did the grade 1 after 2 months.
After about 6 months or so managed to arrange a lesson with a friendly forum member who teaches clarinet to check that I wasn't doing anything desperately wrong. Had a couple more such lessons over the first couple of years. Mostly I didn't get the clari out of it's case between orchestra rehearsals. It definitely wasn't going to take priority over piano or even get close to being equal.

After 2 years I saw that though I'd managed quite well and somehow not managed to pick up any dreadful habits I was at the popint where I needed to decide whether I was happy with what I was doing or if I wanted to see if I could improve. Was lucky enough to find a great teacher and now clarinet is a decided equal with piano for me.

Still not sure exactly how THAT happened!

thanks for sharing that story, it's lovely

And I'm fortunate in having teachers who are both fine with me having 2 equally important instruments.
They both accept that sometimes one might have a slightly higher precedence and that, for now at least, I need to have a smaller workload on both to feel that I can cope.