I've just finished teaching a 12 year-old girl who arrived looking a bit sorry for herself and as we started her lesson, promptly burst into floods of tears. I've taught her for 5 years and so know her (and her family) well enough to know I could put my arm around her and try to find out what was wrong - imagining a bad day at school, possible bullying, or that she wasn't feeling well. She told me that she'd just split up with her boyfriend! I tried to carry on with the lesson amidst the tears and tissues and eventually decided to finish a bit early when she said she had a headache and felt sick - presumably after all the crying. I've never experienced anything quite like it!

Oh dear, pour yourself a large one, sounds like you need it!

This child , as so many do, is trying to be grown-up and thinks it necessary to have a boy0friend. I think you should inform her mother about this. Let us hope she is not pregnant the parents should know about it. The child might, if she is not in her senses, might harm herself. Busylizzie

Oh dear, not teenage girls. You have my every sympathy - my sister is 14 and drives me absolutely nuts going on and on about whichever young Adonis (read: lanky incoherent 14-year-old boy) she's declaring her undying love for this week. I want a drink just thinking about it!


Too true, and yes it seems daft but let us not forget what we were all like as pre-teens and teens. The ridiculous idealised view of relationships teenagers have was not invented last Thursday. They have an almost sickeningly saccharine view of what a 'relationship' is, and also will not pay any attention to what any adult may tell them as obviously if you're over the age of 21 you're far too old to know anything about 'love'.


I would be very cautious about this. It is likely her parents can tell a mile off if she is obsessed with some boy, and she will definitely not appreciate it and may be wary of trusting you in future. Her parents also might not see it as your place to discuss it with them.


It's possible, but not all that likely. There is a lot of media hysteria about pregnant teenage girls, and it is an issue which adults need to be aware of, but I really don't think it's as prevalent as it's made to seem. From what I remember, having a boyfriend at 12 means holding hands between classes, a few amateur attempts at kissing and being chaperoned to the cinema on a 'date', then breaking up about three weeks later and it's the end of the world until the next boy comes along. Since that was ten years ago it may now be different, but based on what my sister tells me it doesn't sound like it. It's all too easy to catastrophise when 95% of the time there isn't any major long-lasting issue and she'll be over it in a week and writing some other boy's name all over her homework diary.

Is it possible she had a bad case of PMT?
She may be in floods of tears and not sure why - the boyfriend thing could be almost peripheral.

I'd maybe wait and see how she is next week.

When my sister was twelve she had boyfriends. I asked her what made them different from boys who were friends, and she said they were boys who were friends, and they hugged. I think the teen pregnancy idea is a completely over the top reaction given that we don't know the girl in question. Most twelve year olds who have boyfriends have them in a completely innocent way. It doesn't mean the same when you're twelve (for most) as it does when you're a bit older!

Even if it obviously wasn't true love, though, there's still the rejection factor. If the girl has been dumped, it could be not so much the loss of the boyfriend that's upset her, but the fact that he no longer wanted to be with her. (I often suspected the whole boyfriend/girlfriend thing at that age was just so you could gain points by dumping the other before they dump you.)
Also, even if it's really innocent, it could still be the loss of a boy who was a good friend. You tend not to talk to your recent ex, even at twelve...

So there are lots of things about the situation that could really upset a twelve year old, even though, at that age, you're too young to actually be heart broken.

Our youngest son is almost 14 and still far more interested in his Xbox than girls!

Rather like me. I came from a small village school and attended a huge comprehensive in a nearby town. I still remember in the 2nd or 3rd year, a girl asking me if I wanted to go out with her and I hadn't a clue what she meant by 'go out'. I was just sooo naive!!!

How times change!


Steve

I daresay I am just an old fashioned out of touch adult but I find the idea of a twelve year old girl even having a boyfriend in the "boy friend" sense of the word quite horrendous. Where did childhood go? What pressures are these poor pre-teenagers under these days?

I sometimes wonder if the pre-teens will soon be pressurised into worrying about their pensions.

I shouldn't worry too much. If she's burst into tears on you, then she's sure to have burst into tears at home, or gone all silent and escaped up to her room.

Teenage girls are a bit of a pain with the bursting into tears bit - I've had 3 or 4 come out of exams and burst into tears. They worry their mothers dreadfully - but they all passed their exams with flying colours.

My own daughter was a bit like this - but she used to claim that she had real depression (which was really worry over exams or suchlike) and I'd have to find something suitable to say that didn't make me sound like an ogre. I didn't somehow think she'd approve of me saying "Get a grip".

Aw! Poor girl! Hehe... I love secondary school aged girls. It brings back memories of when I was that age (I'm 27 now so it's not a million years ago). I had a really tough time from about 12 right through my teens, as many girls do: confusion about what I wanted in my life, whether I was good at anything, feeling that I was ugly, unpopular, arguments with my family, lack of boyfriend, etc. I look back and realise that actually everything was fine and all of my 'problems' were quite trivial and just part of growing up!

That's what makes me smile when teenage girls have little 'ordeals' like this. It's so sweet. They're starting to become adults, but don't quite know how to do it yet. And generally, I find if a teenage student and I have a good rapport, they'll really be comforted when I smile and say 'It's ok. Don't worry'.

It's nice she trusted you enough to tell you. Better that way, than her maybe being a bit unusual/withdrawn for a couple of lessons and you starting to worry and wonder why. Either that, or she didn't really plan to tell you but just felt so upset it sort of slipped out. In which case, I'm sure you handled the situation very well.

Sure, the culture changes, and kids do things differently from their parents, but the idea that one should automatically suspect risk of pregnancy if a girl this age talks of a boyfriend is overkill, it really is. I'm now forty four and remember girls my age at twelve talking this way, and it was innocent then, and is now, for the vast majority. Yes, there is a problem - thanks to worsening diet and better health otherwise, girls now reach the weight threshold for starting puberty about a year and a half to two years younger on average than they did thirty years ago, and with puberty come hormonal surges and interest in the other ###*, often before psychological maturity has started to develop....but, for all that, kids of twelve, thirteen and fourteen tend to "hang out" with those their own ages, giggle a lot, fall out with each other a lot, make friends again, just as kids always have done. This girl is likely to cry a bit, no differently from if she'd fallen out with her group of female friends, will need consoling in the same way as if that had happened, and it'll blow over very quickly. We read hype in the papers and imagine it applies across the board to all kids all the time, and it doesn't: at this age, "going out" doesn't mean anything more than two names being associated with each other by the mutual groups of friends, as often as not.

Telling mum is only ever to be undertaken if you're really sure of the facts, and if those facts sound like a child protection problem - better to talk to the child herself and establish them if you're worried. If you're not, leave it to her - not all kids have easy relationships with parents, and she might well not appreciate it....to say the least.

*oh for goodness' sakes - has that silly censor still not been sorted out?

Oh, you would have loved AOL when they first started!

"Assassinate" appeared as "xxxxxxinate".

"Through the glass I saw a class of massive bass clarinets"

"Through the glxxx I saw a clxxx of mxxxive bxxx clarinets"

It carried on for years before they realised how silly it was.


Steve

My reaction was like yours. Although it's a long time since I was a teenager, I can remember how everything seemed so serious and upsetting at the time and having brought up a daughter of my own (now 25) as well as two sons, I know only too well what the teenage years are like. I did send a text to her mum last night, checking that the girl was okay and telling her that she had arrived in an upset state and mum replied that she had 'had a falling out with a close friend' but that she didn't know any more than that. She thanked me for my concern. I remember the mum telling me when the girl was about 10 that she was already acting like a teenager and it was obvious that she was finding her a bit difficult.

hahahhaa, try seven year old boys..... mine get soooo frustated if he thinks he can't play a piece he bursts into tears..... another seven year old messes about in his lesson i told him to put his flute away, he wouldn't, and starting crying and calling me a nasty woman!! KIDS WHO'LL HAVE THEM... HAHAHAHAHA

One cannot help but feel sorry for this little girl. But I reiterate the point I made above, that in general we have cut the childhood years to a dangerous minimum. I do not agree (Sorry Twinkle) that it is sweet to see signs of growing up far too soon. This little girl, it seems, was already thown into pre- adulthood at the age of ten - because pre-adulthood is exactly what the teenage years are about. I don't really think any boy or girl should be bemoaning the loss of a "partner" before the age of 15 or 16 Then it seems to me to be normal. If she was simply upset over a childish dispute between friends (as anacrusis suggests) that is a different matter. If she was emotionally copying a situation more relevant to an older teenager then I think something is wrong. I don't think it is twee or cute. I think it is psychologically damaging. The roots of a stable adulthood lie in childhood. If we abbreviate that stage of development the roots won't develop and the adult tree will topple. The media, the food industry and the rest of us have a lot to answer for.

Rightly or wrongly, feelings at that age can be very strong, especially in girls. I remember! I hardly knew somebody, yet I though he was the only one for me. My best friend used to cry because the #### French teacher clearly wasn't interested in her. Life seems very black and white but time moves on and fantasy is replaced with proper relationships. A lot of the problems at that age are down to losing face - and even in more adult life it feels worse to be dumped than to do the dumpling, even if you know it's for the best, and it was only a matter of time before you did the dumping yourself. This girl will be fine; it's probably just another of life's many experiences, of which there will be more to come. Whether or not we think these feelings should be present in a twelve year old is not really the issue; the feelings, however transient, are clearly there, rightly or wrongly, and it's up to us to be understanding and supportive but without making too big a deal of it. That in itself makes it too big an issue.

i also have a few girls in that age-group, and i can only say that this is far from unusual. i am in my mid-30s now, but i can still remember having my first crush at the age of 6 (!), and i also called him my bf - one of the few boys who would mix with girls at that age. we are still in contact these days, and i was even a guest at his civil ceremony. maybe it was me who put him off women for life? LOL
difference is that these 'relationships' really have nothing to do with 'proper' ones. i wouldn't worry. it is certainly our job to have an eye on our students in case something 'odd' is going on, but i would warn to blow these things out of proportion.

i am a sort of confidante for a lot of my girls, and it would be an incredible breach of trust to run off and tell their parents - probably far more damaging than the 'relationship'. this doesn't mean that i wouldn't inform parents where necessary, but certainly not in cases like this.

I agree with what you say Dulciana - particularly about not making a big deal about it. I just think it's a shame this kind of thing impinges on children so early.

I teach a group of children whose parents are very concerned about preserving their children's proper childhood. I have seen several of this group grow through their teenage years, and a couple into early adulthood. These young people really do have something - they have a kind of stability and confidence I don't see in the ones whose emotional turmol began much earlier. They are also much more aware of others. This is not to say they have not had their moments of teenage difficulty -or even some difficult passages in their earlier years. But they have never been allowed to become hot house plants.

Another (now) young adult I know came to a lesson one day rather upset because a friend of hers was in emotional upheaval over a relationship. At the time this pupil was fourteen. We talked about this and I asked how she felt about having a boyfriend herself. Her answer was - and I have always remembered the simplicity with which she said it - "Ca, c'est pour plus tard". She was also brought up by a family who were concerned that their two daughters should experience life's difficuties progressively and at the right time. I don't think this is being over protective but rather nurturingg the child thoughtfully. But then as I said above, I expect a lot of people will think I am just being old fashoined and nostalgic. Oh well .....

Aquarelle, completely agree, athough I have to say that what they want to do, they will do anyway, no matter if we agree with it or not - IMHO better to lend an open ear and help them through it than trying to wind back the clock and bemoan a lost childhood.

I also found over the years that the families where these issues are openly dealt with and where the pros and cons are explained while still taking the kids' problems seriously bring out children who seem to be far more 'sensible'. No rule without exception of course. It is certainly very counterproductive to put a big taboo on everything or start to panic though ...

I think you have a good point. I've noticed over the years here in Italy that children seem younger than the kids in the UK. They also seem a lot calmer. But the family unit here is much stronger and also most kids have their grandparents living very close and of course, having them to turn to and advise them is very important.
I have a feeling that diet may have something to do with it as well. I vaguely remember reading years ago that the consumption of sugary food in the UK is extremely high. The reason I say this is that people here have noticed that the problem with children getting fatter (earlier puberty?) seemed to start when breakfast cereals started getting more popular in Italy.

Steve

[quote name='stevensfo' date='Oct 20 2009, 11:53 AM' post='885986']
[quote] people here have noticed that the problem with children getting fatter (earlier puberty?) seemed to start when breakfast cereals started getting more popular in Italy.
[/quote]
That's an interesting point. In fact, I think the Italian model of families is a brilliant one and that the decline of stable family units in England is hugely responsible for the problems children face today.

I do agree that childhood is an important foundation for adulthood and it's a shame when kids seem to grow up too early, but yes, like Mezzo1974 says, 'better to lend an open ear and help them through it than trying to wind back the clock and bemoan a lost childhood.'

I suppose if I were a parent I'd have more strict views about my own kids, and hopefully in some situations at least, a clear outline of what's right and wrong. But I dont think it pays to be too judgemental. It's best to be supportive. If a pupil knows you'll listen, they're more likely to tell you things, and more likely to listen to your thoughts. Sometimes if a pupil does or says something I don't agree with, I present different ideas of how to do things and rely that, becuase they think highly of me, they'll consider what I say. It's only on rare occasions that I might need say 'No. That's wrong.' or to involve parents for this kind of thing.

<tangent>
Teenagers being s*xualised in the UK media puts additional pressure on youngsters to act "grown up" IMO.

Maybe I'm just a prune, but 10 year old girls wearing make-up just seems wrong, and seeing the way some ~14 year olds dress these days outside of school is pretty shocking. I'm sure they think of it as "empowering" or being just like their idols but I think they should enjoy a worry/stress-free childhood
</tangent>

'The longer the childhood, the more harmonious and joyful the adult's life will be'. (Zoltán Kodály)

I agree with Mezzo - we can't just look back and bewail the loss of whatever our childhoods were like, and to be honest, we're also forgetting some of the downsides of those times too. Yes, kids were more innocent in previous generations, but also more ignorant, and it is just as important for parents to try to keep abreast of the times as ever it was - the other thing from the past which I don't look back on with any sort of nostalgia is the way in which kids used to be treated as having no opinion - they may still be in the process of forming those, but can still cast a very useful view on issues sometimes, and we can learn from them as much as they can from us. In my grandmother's day it was acceptable for adults to say in her presence, "what a pity the child is so plain, when she has such a beautiful mother" ; in my mother's day, it was normal for kids to be thrashed with an implement for misdemeanours ; in my childhood, it was still perfectly okay to be punished for not handing in homework despite having been off sick when it was issued.....if we want kids to respect us, then shouldn't we also show them how to show respect? I do think that kids have always chased the point of being "grown up" - and from much younger ages than we realise - part of the difference though is that even that grown upness itself has changed. In the fifties, little girls would be given an apron and a miniature baking set, and practise being mummies at home: now that our culture is teaching an idealisation of adulthood which includes makeup and nightclub attire, jobs and ready money, that is also what girls aspire to. I don't bewail ambition for careers, I think women have been condemned to the tedium of household and snotty noses for long enough, and should be able to delegate some of that to their spouses, and be able to use their brains and their talents too. I'm not sure the world is really worse for the way things are, different yes, but with some common sense and awareness, we can still guide our kids into happy existences.

You probably meant to say prude, but the idea of us thinking you're a prune made me smile!

Nope, I intentionally wrote prune

Remember the: "Am I a prude?" and "Am I a prune?" posts?

Afraid not - do enlighten me!

Um I think the threads in question got pulled by the mods (a while ago). They suddenly vanished and don't come up if you search.

And I am quite sure he was right.

Sorry to pull this thread up again but I felt there was a bit of confusion in the discussion. I don't think it's at all a question of comparing bygone childhoods with childhood today or of being nostalgic. I think that is a bit of a side track. Also I certainly don't think children should be blamed or punished in any way for the way things are. We need to be sympathetic listeners and guides for those in difficulty. I do not think we should continually censor and crticise children, ignore their feelings and opinions or say "no" to everything.

But I do think we should pay a lot more attention to the quality and length of the childhood we are providing for them because childhood is the foundation of adulthood. Kodaly said it in a nutshell.

I remember when I was teaching (general classroom teacher, not music, and had a couple of kids of 11/12 years who sort of flirted with each other. Well more often the boy would float around the girl's desk with something funny or annoying to say and some days she was O.K. with that and you could see the twinkle in her eyes. Other days she thought he was a pest out of ######. One day she came to me saying I hate him, I hate him and burst into tears. I had taught this child on and off for four years and was very fond of her. fond of both of them actually. So I did what came instinctive (stuff the pc approach) I just put my arms around her and pulled her into my chest while she sobbed her confusion out. She clearly didn't hate him, she liked him but she couldn't admit it. Her little hormones were all over the place and she couldn't deal with it, didn't understand it and needed comforted. We just agreed she would try and stay away from him. Didn't last long. LOL At that age it really is for the vast majority of children totally innocent. they don't even see each other out of school mostly. Even the infants will say who their boyfriend/girlfriend is and it means absolutely nothing. I remember having a crush on a boy in the infants in the early 60s so it's nothing new. What goes around comes around but I do agree children are made to grow up too quickly these days and the sexualisation of little girl's clothing is so wrong!
Some of the schools where I live now have Proms for the children leaving to go to secondary schools and the girls have prom dresses, get their hair and nails done. Even get their make up done professionally and turn up at school inlimousines. Just like something you would see in American High Schools on graduation. Now that I find totally wrong! In the school where I taught (a different town) the Primary 7s had a leavers mass and a day out at the funpark paid for by the school and were delighted with it.

Sounds as though the pupil needed a large one too

(That's the drumroll that's sounding as the curtains go up on the response to this one... )

I had a 'girlfriend' when I was twelve. It meant almost totally nothing - lasted about two weeks in which we went to the cinema once. Seemed pretty important at the time, but I don't really think it's caused 'psychological damage'!

My 12 year old daughter is not at all interested in boys (may have something to do with her 6 year old brother - to her boys are a dratted nuisance and creatures with seriously disgusting habits ). She is unusual in her class - they have a Grade 7 graduation at the end of the year before moving on to high school and the girls have been sorting out who will dance with each boy from the start of the year. My gut feeling is that this is much more about social status and hierarchy than true romantic relationships! We have also had pressure from other kids to get caught up in the formal dress, get your hair done, buy high heeled shoes and jewellery to match and so on.......bless my daughter, she was very grateful when I came along to ride shotgun on a shopping expedition (she was talked into it by a more precocious friend - sweet kid, but very different set of values in this sense) and was able to assist her in saying no to the very very adult dresses which the friend had picked out for her (had to laugh when she came out in one very low cut number complete with bra underneath and I gently suggested she try it without bra to get the full effect - one very horrified child when she realised just how revealing it really was........ ). We later found a much more age appropriate dress in which she feels pretty and feminine but isn't setting herself up for more than she bargained for.

It was a very educational experience for me - I know from dealing with teens in my work that there is one heck of a lot of peer pressure to conform at this age, but we hadn't run so headlong into it before. Found myself gently disagreeing with the friend while trying not to hurt her feelings (but being horrified by the strong negative reactions to any hint of daughter being different.......daughter thought she might wear trousers and a nice top as she is playing her cello at the ceremony - friend : "well no-one else will be wearing trousers!" in very disapproving voice. Ouch. "Well she will be a trend-setter, won't she?" from me through slightly gritted teeth... ) It was a great lesson for my daughter in assertiveness and working out how important it was to swim with the crowd or stand up for what she felt comfortable doing - hopefully it will come back to her some day when all her friends are piling into the car with the drunk driver at the wheel and she chooses to ring Mum or a taxi instead.......crossed fingers.

Jenny, I think you handled your student beautifully - I know my daughter would turn to her music teachers, esp her cello teacher in such a situation as she trusts them enormously and they are both lovely women with very level heads. Having mentor adults around you who listen to you and care about you is incredibly important for this age group - it teaches them so much and it builds their self esteem and their ability to relate well to others. Thank you to you and to all the others who are prepared to take the time to listen and respond to your students' distress (and in this case, to make a discreet and no doubt very helpful call to a mum, who could then keep the channels of communication with daughter well and truly open - agree completely with Mezzo that families who talk about such things openly tend to be the best functioning ones in my experience).

Wolfnotes

I had a boyfriend at the same age. He gave me his last rolo...and then I dumped him the next day!!!
It was all very innocent, no kissing or any of that.

Now that's damaging!

Yes I'm pretty sure that put an end to him sharing his sweets!