My twelve-year-old daughter has been learning the trombone for three years and for the past six months or so her teacher has been complaining that she doesn't play loud enough and therefore doesn't use the full dynamic range of the instrument. When he first said this, I asked him if there were any specific exercices she could do and he said there weren't, she just needed to play louder.

Yesterday, my daughter came home really upset because he had said to her that if she is not playing louder after the holidays he won't let her play in any more concerts and will stop her playing in her wind bands. My daughter loves playing with others (her aim at the moment is to get good enough to play in the same wind band as me) but what really worried her is that she is in a music option class and the school wind-band is a compulsory 'lesson' so she has visions of being thrown out of the class if her trombone teacher won't let her play in it. I think it is probably an ideal threat as the conductor of the school wind-band likes my daughter and she had very good marks for this class last year and the other wind band she plays in has nothing to do with school and he only knows she plays in it because she told him but his threat has upset her.

Anyway, what I really wanted were some ideas to help her try and play louder. She is very shy, introverted and lacking in self-confidence and I'm sure this is why she has trouble playing loudly. She is very much like me personality wise and I have always had (and still have) trouble playing loudly, whatever the instrument. My piano teacher (in the past) and my oboe teacher (now) have said it is a personality 'problem' but both suggested various technical exercices I could do to try and overcome a natural tendancy to play quietly and both saw/see it as a long term aim which will take years rather than weeks to overcome.

I also can't help thinking that feeling under stress in her lessons is counterproductive and will make her withdraw into herself even more and that he ought to be trying to make her feel relaxed and confident first but I don't know if this is the sort of thing a parent can say to a teacher.

I am not a brass player, so cannot offer technical advice, however, I wonder if sometimes, people find it difficult to hear their playing as others hear it, especially people who tend towards introversion and who may find that playing loudly feels much more "risky".

Do you have any facilities to record your daughter playing in private? she could record herself and play it back, rating her different dynamic levels on a scale of 1-10. then record herself again, trying to make parts of it louder, and listening to it back, re-rating the dynamics. If she does the exercise in private, she can feel perfectly safe to make mistakes, make unfamiliar sounds etc, without fear of judgement. Maybe once she can hear the differences, or lack of, she will be able to experiment and relate it to what it "felt" like, in her lips, breathing etc to make a bigger sound. Maybe she could experiment with different imagery as well to help set up different moods.

Alternatively, is there a chance that her teacher is lacking in the technical knowledge required to actually teach her how to do this? Is it a matter of more breath support or embouchure or something? I am sure there will be brass players on the forums that can help. It is a shame that someone who is enthusiastic to learn is being threatened with withdrawal from an ensemble. Perhaps the teacher meant to be encouraging, but it doesn't sound like an appropriate encouragement for your daughter.

I have a clarinet pupil who, despite being a competent player always falls down in festivals and exams due to her quiet playing, which the examiner puts down to uncertainty and nerves.

I tend to make a joke of it and "have a competition" about who can play the loudest. I also get her to visualise she's in a concert hall when playing. She's improved and when I remind her, can play quite loudly.

Is your daughter more confident when playing duets? I've always hated performing and clam up unless it's something I'm really happy about playing, however generally when playing a duet / in a group play more confidently. Maybe you could play some oboe/trombone (weird combo I know!) duets together or does she have a friend who plays trombone that she could play with?

A technique I frequently use for this is to stand at one end of the room while my pupil stands at the other, and for the pupil to project their sound towards me : frequently this does help.

He does too....

I think I'd start by complementing her on how well she manages to do the difficult trick of playing the trombone quietly!
Maybe images would help? An elephant approaching or thunder?

I have a wonderful toy for this.

It is a pink plastic flower in a pot. The flower 'dances' when she 'hears' loud sounds. Since she is holding a pink plastic guitar and moves in a funny way it is very appealing!

We begin with the flower on the music stand and make her dance. Then she goes on the piano. Then on the desk. Then by the door. For practise at home the instruction is 'Imagine you are making the flower dance'

I bought it years ago from Hawkins Bazaar...sure they still exist somewhere.

The other thing I do is ask the kids to play from the end of their garden and to make sure mum can hear them in the kitchen. In some of our Cheshire mansions with many acres this is a challenge!

I agree. It doesn't sound as if the teacher knows what your daughter needs to do to be able to play louder and on paper it does sound a very negative way of 'encouraging' her! (Let's hope he didn't mean to be so negative.) I'll mention this to my husband - he's a brass expert - and get back to you.

Where does she practice?

I know that when I was learning the violin, I didn't want to play loudly because a) a beginner playing the violin sounds pretty awful and b) I didn't want to disturb the neighbours!!

Once I had a practice session in the garage and played loads louder and felt much more confident.

Just mentioned this to my OH. He too suggests playing in a bigger room so that she has to project the sound more. Also practising with a practice mute might help to build up the muscles required, but his main feeling was that she has got to want to do it herself. Not too much help, I'm afraid.

I can identify with this, with the rider that I don't think it's a conscious decision you can make, it's more a feeling that comes from within. My old teacher was always telling me to use more dynamics and play louder, but at the same time, he did/said things which didn't build up my confidence. Fortunately my new teacher has really helped with this, and a few weeks ago when I was playing at Dyrham Park, one of my friends who came who hasn't heard me play since I got my new teacher, commented how much more strongly and confidently I played.

I find it a big help to play vocal music because the words make it obvious where you should crescendo or diminuendo. It's then easier to transfer the skill of playing strong dynamics to instrumental music.

Incidentally, having said that playing louder needs to come from within, I'm sure I would have played louder if I'd had a dancing flower to play to

I've got a piano pupil who plays really, really quietly, in fact so quiet that when he came to me first I could barely hear him even though I was sitting right next to him at the piano. It was as though he was afraid someone might hear him! He doesn't seem awfully confident and is a quiet person anyway. I talked to him about it, asked if he practises where he might disturb the family if he plays loudly, and have asked mum to encourage him to play a bit louder. Gradually, it's getting a bit better. I've given him some loud pieces to play and when we look at them in lessons I become quite enthusiastic in my efforts to get him to play them louder - he thinks I'm very odd I also pay quite a bit of attention to the dynamics in a piece - however quiet he is playing I try to get him to make a difference between the various dynamics, even if his 'p' playing then becomes inaudible. Hoping it'll improve even more as he gets more confident.

I'm approaching this as a ww player, so may not be as valid for brass.

Is she scared of making a 'nasty' noise? I went through a period of playing very very quietly through a combination of being scared of the neighbours hearing me and not wanting to make ugly sounds. I was recommended to only practise my scales ffffff and all studies/technical exercises very loud ignoring all dynamics and tone colour. After getting used to how much volume I could make before the tone distorted I started to realise how much more dynamic range I could use.

Thanks everyone.


It wasn't meant to be encouraging but a 'punishment' for not playing loudly, which is why I'm annoyed about it. Also, she does play a bit louder when playing with other people so I would have thought it was a good way of developing her ability to play loudly.


She practises at home in the lounge-room which is a fairly large room (the biggest in our house) and I don't think she is consciously worried about disturbing people. The room she has her lessons in, however, is tiny and has carpet everywhere (including the ceiling and walls) to deaden the noise. (The music school didn't invest in proper sound-proofing). The acoustics are not good, and very different from home. I don't think my daughter has enough musical maturity to take this into account but her teacher ought to realise this.


I agree. I don't think my daughter knows what loud is (and neither do I on a trombone for that matter) and I think she doesn't really know how to produce a loud sound. If she just uses more air then very often the note comes out at the wrong harmonic (if that is the correct term) so obviously it needs more of something else as well but as I'm not a brass player I don't know what.

Nor do I know where it is theoretically easiest to produce loud notes on a trombone - I did think of getting her to play the "easy" loud notes first and then try and play others to match.


My piano teacher used to say to me that I was the only pupil he had ever had who could start ppp and still do a convincing diminuendo

I've got one of these, too - surpisingly a 15 year old boy. I've been teaching him for 5 years and he's very laid back. At the moment I'm trying really hard to get him to play in a more confident way for his Grade 3 exam. I demonstrated a few weeks ago, to show him how much dynamic contrast he could use and he said 'careful, you'll break the piano!' He practises on a keyboard at home, but has the use of a piano at his grandad's house. I'm really frustrated that I can't get him to play loudly. His version of Top Cat is a very gentle one!!

I give my reply as a trumpet player, not a teacher so some teachers may disagree with this but has she tried practicing with a mute? My reason for saying this is when I was going through a phase of really not wanting to be heard practising I would use a practise mute. this had the opposite effect for me and I got used to playing louder to hear myself, therefore playing too loudly in a performance situation (a trumpet player too loud???? heaven forbid )

May be worth a shot anyway, good luck

From what you've said, she sounds quite similar to me.

It really is a case of 'just play louder', although that can be very difficult to persuade yourself to do if you're a generally quiet and shy person. If it was me, no amount of being told to project the sound or whatever would really make a difference because it's not a technical problem (it's not exactly physically difficult to blow a bit harder!), it's just that you have to convince yourself to get over the mental barrier that, for some reason or other is stopping you doing it and that the world really won't end if you make a loud noise.

As I said in earlier posts she is also very similar to me .

You are right that it is partly a psychological problem but it is also partly technical in that you are physically preventing yourself from playing loudly in some way or other. I sometimes get the impression that teachers (and I don't necessarily mean teachers on this board) are prepared to teach "loud" pupils how to play more quietly but just assume that "quiet" pupils could play loudly if only they wanted to.

My oboe teacher pointed out to me that I was effectively stopping myself from playing loudly by closing my throat so that I was taking a proper breath but not releasing it correctly and merely trying to put more air through the instrument was in fact counter productive since I was "creating" extra tension to stop the "extra" air getting in to the instrument. It took him some time to work this out (and a lot of observing me from all angles which I found rather off-putting) but once he had identified a technical problem it became easier to do something about it. I still have days when I'm incapable of spontaneously playing what he deems to be loud enough to qualify as "forte" but once he has pointed out I am having a "quiet" day I can (usually) consciously do something about it. Unfortunately most of what he got me to do is oboe specific and doesn't work on the trombone because the air pressure isn't the same.

I have a book called "How brass players do it! which takes a few pages to describe getting a sound and ensuring the Glotis is fully open and using the diaphragm. The is a specific one for trombonists "How trombonists do it" which may be worth taking a look. there are quite a few technical exercises in there as well so you do get quite a lot for your money

Thanks, I'll have a look for that.
Brass instruments remain something of a mystery to me (never having had any desire to play one) and I'm often at a loss when trying to help my daughter.

My ultra shy daughter plays her flute more confidently when playing duets with her teacher. If the teacher is playing loudly your daughter might feel bold enough to compete with him.

Teachers can be so unhelpful with quiet shy children when they make statements like that. I'm sure he probably thought he was issuing her with a challenge that she would rise to, but it sounds like it has had the opposite effect.

This is very true! And it doesn't even have to be a duet. My oboe teacher often plays my line with me, his theory being that if I can play loudly at the same time as him I will, eventually, be able to do it without him.

Last year when my daughter was officially diagnosed with dyslexia, I translated parts of Sheila Ogelthorpe's book on dyslexia for him to read and playing alongside the pupil is one of the things she suggests but my daughter's teacher obviously doesn't think it is a helpful idea as he doesn't do it.


This is interesting, it had never occurred to me that he might have been thinking of it as a challenge, probably because it touched a raw nerve from my own childhood.

Hi kerioboe,

Here are two links which may help your daughter to improve her dynamics. I'm assuming in posting these links that your daughter's teacher has already covered the required techniques in her lessons.

link 1


link 2

Link 1 gives general good advice which hopefully she has already covered. Section 8 of the document explains why she changes pitch when she tries to play loud (i.e. she is probably overblowing) and suggests the way forward by playing long tones with crescendos. To start with I'd suggest that she does the long tones but just tries to get slightly louder (i.e. bit by bit as she will probably continue to overblow if she tries to get too loud too soon). Maybe play for a count of 8, starting quietly and reaching her loudest volume by the count of 5. Gradually increase to forte playing as she gains confidence in maintaining her pitch whilst increasing the airflow.

Link 2 covers tone and sound quality and I've included it as part of the technical problem may be that she is keeping her teeth closed and doesn't open her throat properly.

Hope this helps. PM if you need any clarification.

Thanks Allanah.
I found the second link in particular very interesting.