Today was the day we went to London. We had a much better day that I thought we might. I could hear a very clear difference between Beth's current flute and the flutes she tried today, which was reassuring. She didn't try many flutes, which is a good thing and has come away with a Miyazawa and a Muramasui to try and chose between.
I wondered if anyone had any thoughts on these two. Beth got on better with the Miyazawa, perhaps because her current flute is a Miyazawa, and it was significantly cheaper than the Muramasui so we might lean in the direction of the Miyazawa.
Dora

I assume you're talking about a Muramatsu as I've never heard of Muramasui flutes (which doesn't mean that they don't exist or that they aren't good).

Both Muramatsu and Miyazawa are very well respected Japanese flute makers who specialise in advanced and professional instruments. Asking which of these flutes is better is a bit like asking whether Belguin or Swiss chocolate tastes better - the answer will depend on the individual.

Carry on testing the flutes blind (i.e. without Beth knowing which is which) or with a completely open mind, and see if a consistent preference emerges. Even within the same make there are sometimes significant differences between models, especially with regard to things like headjoint cut and the balance of the instrument - so don't be influenced unduly by the manufactuer of Beth's current flute. As an example, I tried two different Powell models last summer. One of these was rejected after 3 or 4 notes and the other ended up as a close second choice to the flute I now have (and I must have tried around 18-20 flutes - some of which were rejected pretty much straight off and a shortlist of about 8 were re-tried the next day). Similarly, I really didn't get on with the solid silver model of the flute I now have, even though on paper it might appear to be a 'better' flute.

Edit: I'm sure 'Belguin' is spelt wrong, but it doesn't look right with the other spellings I've tried either.

Thanks for the reassurance.
I think we are in a win win position. I am greatly relieved.
Dora

Hi Dora
We were both buying flutes at the same time same place yesterday! We were paying at the desk at the same time as your family and my daughter was playing in the practice room next to you for some of the time, although I think you went down to the basement (perhaps we drove you down there ) I was reading this thread before because we were about to upgrade for my daughter, but I realized it must have been you when you said what you were buying! Anyway what a huge coincidence if I'm right. We came away with a second hand Miyazawa, which is super so obviously I'll recommend that make. Let me know if you remember us... my daughter is skinny with long blonde hair, sadly I'm not

Sara

Hi Sara
Yes I remember you. Wow you were in the shop for a long time. We tried some flutes and then went for something to eat before we went down to the basement. I don't know why they moved us to the basement.
Did your daughter find it easy to chose or was it difficult.
Beth played both the flutes today but had a friend here and I don't think she got any further with chosing one. The next few days should help.
Dora

Well she tried out loads, some of them were immediately not right. Then we got it down to 3 a Sankyo an Altus and the Miyazawa. Then it was between the Altus which had inline G so wasn't as comfortable and the Miyazawa which sounded lovely and hopefully will let her expand her tonal palette. We did spend a long time choosing, but at that sort of price you have to really. She has her lesson on Tuesday so hopefully the teacher will approve!

Sara

I'm sure her teacher will approve. Did you get an open holed flute. We did but Beth has only played it with the plugs in. I'm going to hide for the week in which she takes the plugs out. I've seen Beth angry. Not pretty.
Your daughter sounded lovely. She is very good.
Dora

I would strongly recommend that Beth gives both flutes a decent trial without the plugs before she makes a decision on which flute she wants. The reason is that flutes can sometimes play and respond very differently depending on whether the plugs are in or out. Yes, she may (at this stage) struggle with fingering without the bungs but she can still check things like how well the flutes respond to different articulation, how flexiblle they are in terms of tone colouring and large jumps and how easy they are to get in-tune dynamics and how easily notes can be bent to change the tuning. Taking the plugs out can also make a surprising difference to the weight and balance of the flute (my flute is lovely without plugs but is really unbalanced with them), and so you need to check that this is okay without the plugs.

Thank you for this. I will get her to try them without the plugs.
Dora

Yes I would second the point about taking out the plugs. My daughter was really keen on open holes, so we tried in the shop without plugs and found she needed 2 to cover the holes reliably, but since we got home she took them out and will just have to play more steadily and carefully until the finger positioning becomes natural.
I think we'll both have to put up with two very frustrated teenagers for a while

Sara

We haven't even got to the teen years yet!!!
Lets hope they both get the hang of it soon.
Dora

Oh yikes, Dora, tea and sympathy there then.

Practice went well enough today, slowly but surely... frustration level low to moderate!

Sara

I'm just about to go up to London next Wednesday to look at flutes. I've had an open-holed Miyazawa for the past 6-7 years. It's been very good, though it doesn't have the kind of tone I want now (but it had the right tone when I bought it...tastes change!). I've not heard of Muramatsu, but that's nothing to go by - in the end, it's down to personal taste. My Miyazawa has certainly done very well and I've had no trouble with it.

David

What kind of tone are you after David?

Hard to describe, but I find the Miyazawa I had a bit 'bright' (that isn't to say I wouldn't consider a different Miyazawa, just not that model). Someone suggested I needed a higher metal content for that.

In that case I'd definitely add a Murumatsu to your list of potentials. They tend to have quite a dark tone.

It may be a different headjoint/embouchure cut rather than higher silver content/purity. I tried an Altus flute with a .958 headjoint (as opposed to the more standard .925) and found that for me this was thinner sounding than some of the .925 flutes even though the higher purity silver was supposed to give a darker sound.

It's best to go with a fairly open mind about what you want in terms of makes etc, but with a clear idea of what you want the flute to do and how you want it to sound. I went flute shopping last year expecting (based on what people had told me) to end up with either an Altus or a Muramatsu, because I like a thick, dark sound. Both the Altus flutes got rejected very quickly and the Muramatsu only just made the shortlist for the second day of trialling. There wasn't anything wrong with the flutes, and I know people who sound great on them - they just didn't suit me. The flute I ended up with was a make I'd never known anyone to play (although they are supposed to be popular) but it is lovely. The closed hole model was even too dark! That said, a couple of other flute players at church have tried my flute and hate it because they found it too resistant and felt they didn't have enough breath, so it really is a very individual thing.

If your miyazawa still has a good mechanism it might be worth trying out new headjoints on it as well as trying new flutes.

What have you and Beth decided, Dora?

Thanks for asking.
Beth is playing both flutes, with and without plugs. She likes both and while she can tell the difference she can't decide which is pretty much what I expected.
She has a lesson with her teacher on Saturday morning and they will make a final decision then. I don't think they can go wrong so I'm not worrying about it now.
The shop has been really helpful and I had a chat with them today about the flutes which was very useful. If I were to be asked to guess I would think the Miyazawa was first choice.
I will let you know which she finally has.
Dora

The final decision was quick and easy. We will keep the Miyazawa. Beth found itthe easiest to play and her teacher prefered the tone. By good luck it was also £900 cheaper so we are all happy. Thank you everyone for all the help. I really found it very useful.
Dora

Ah great. Miyazawa did well out of us that day!

Good luck with all Beth's playing
Sara

Hope both girls enjoy their new Flutes.