*sigh*

I have a newish lassie, started, oh, six weeksish ago. (Friend of a current pupil who said new girl was Grade Four. Current pupil is just doing her Grade Three). She seemed nice, but didn't have any books to show me what she'd done previously, which made judging her level a bit tricky. Turned out that she had done her Grade 3 in the summer term. (So - in my head at least *not* "Grade 4" level yet, particularly as she'd had no lessons since then).

Anyway, gave her scales and sight-reading to warm that stuff up again after several months break, and started her on some stuff from A Keyboard Anthology (think it's series 3, book...2) and Martha Mier's Jazz, Rags, and Blues, Book...3. A couple of weeks in, and the girl is struggling. We're doing a minuet attributed to one of the Bachs - incidentally, sorry this sounds hazy, I'm on my laptop and the books are all downstairs - also, Sea Pink by Gurlitt, which I knew was an ex-grade 3 exam piece, and Low C Boogie from the Martha Mier book. Her note reading is a bit rough - the minuet is in Eb, and she constantly forgets the Ab - her rhythm is patchy as soon as dotted notes come in, and really not great in Low C Boogie, can't seem to deal with the swing at all. In addition, instead of learning hands separately well, she'll come back just having a go at the entire thing - not well.

I couldn't understand this, because I was starting with stuff at the easy/mid level of G3, which she ought to have been able to handle. This was me thinking I'd get her confidence back up before moving on! Also, a fortnight or so she came in asking if we could only do one tune at a time so she could concentrate on that. I tried to explain that I prefer looking at a variety, and perhaps taking a little longer to complete all of them. I did, however, drop down from Low C Boogie to the Piano Time Jazz, Book 2, thinking that she could hopefully play the easier stuff, and get to grips with the rhythm/swing. (Again, this puzzled me a bit, 'cause if I told my own pupils, 'nah, we're just doing one tune at a time' I think there'd be a riot...!)

So! Last week she comes in, sits down, and says "Well, I found my Grade 4 exam book, so I was wondering if we could just start that, because I feel that the ones that I'm doing just aren't relevant to that..."
<headdesk>
Turns out her previous teacher was a "teach to the exam" one. She would play just exam pieces, wee sections at a time, till she could do the whole thing, with the occasional other piece after an exam was done. I tried to explain that she just wasn't ready for the Grade 4 exam - while trying not to say "Look, you can't play Grade 3 stuff yet! There's no waaaaaaay I'm putting you anywhere near the Grade 4 book!" She just...didn't get it... I finally asked if she'd started the Grade 4 stuff - she had, *sob* - and told her to play a bit. She went for List B3, Waltz Lente, stumbled painfully through the first three lines or so, playing the left hand in the bass despite it being written in the treble. When I looked through the book, the Allegro Assai had also been started, with finger numbers written in all over. (I have seen worse, but it did give me a sinking feeling).

Eventually, after loads of talking, I gave her a short list of pieces, and basically said I wouldn't start her on the Grade 4 material until she could play these (various from A Keyboard Anthology) and to aim for having them done for about the end of January, then looking at the Grade 4 pieces and thinking about doing the exam in the June session. Look of complete shock and horror from the poor girl. "But that's not long enough!"

Anyway, she comes in later today, and I'm feeling pre-emptively frazzled. Partly 'cause, for all I know, she's just *awful* and that's why her teacher took months and months on the same old pieces...! Though I sincerely hope not. But also because I'm used to my own me-trained pupils, who expect loads of tunes throughout the year, moving them up in the general direction of the next grade, which they take when they're ready - but this lassie clearly doesn't think like that.
I want to help her, but I'm not sure how. Her progress so far hasn't been great, but then, we've kind of been at cross purposes.

Any ideas?

[She made me so paranoid last week that when one of my Grade 4ish pupils came in the next day I had him sight-read Grade 2 and 3 pieces just to check that I wasn't being unreasonable in expecting her to handle that level stuff...good practice for him though. )

Hi, I don't really have much advice to add, but I have one in EXACTLY the same situation at the moment (different instrument, but can't play other grade 3 stuff and wants to start on Grade 4 immediately) - I've tried to explain that I teach all the skills needed by using a real variety of pieces, while working through the scales - which in themselves can take a year, depending on the pupil - and making sure she's got technical work, sight reading exercises, pieces gradually increasing in difficulty, as well as fun, easier repertoire. But she just likes the idea of taking the next exam. I've already had a chat to mum, but it might be time for another. I'm thinking of diverting her into Christmas music soon, so she can see how much fun it is not working towards an exam all the time, and maybe having her perform at a carol singing event with some of the others so she still has something to aim for. Can you find something Grade 3ish and Christmassy to have some fun with?

I await other people's replies with interest!!

Oh dear

Is it possible for her to bring along a copy of the comments sheet for her Grade III to a forthcoming lesson? There may well be examiner's comments on rhythm, key &c which you can use to justify not doing exam pieces just yet - something along the lines of "we don't want to lose marks for poor rhythm this time, do we? After all, they become stricter on these things at Grade IV, and I want you to do as well as I know you're capable of doing".

How is she at the supporting tests? These are, of course *far* more difficult than the exam pieces, and it seems silly to throw away a potential 60 marks on them - working on Grade IV aural/scales/SR comes under the banner of "working towards an exam" - but of course, you'd *hate* for her to do just aural/scales/SR each lesson, so we'll do some easier pieces "for fun"

If she's target-driven, is there a local festival or a forthcoming Pupils-of-Alder concert in which she could participate?

Nipping out to the shops shortly, so being brief!

Ah, so glad it's not just me! Makes me feel a wee bit better.
The bolded bit I've already, done, or at least thought I had. I'll maybe just have to keep plugging away at it, "pieces gradually increasing in difficulty" was a concept she clearly hadn't come across before!
I haven't spoken to mum - in fact, now I think on it, I've never spoken to mum. This lass is about 16, and made the arrangements all herself, mum didn't even come to the door when she dropped her off the first time...hmmm...

Now, I really should ask about the comments sheet. I have a second new pupil who's just come from another teacher, and I know I did that with her. (Not that she could find it, but still)

*off-topic but related*
This second girl did her Grade 5 in the, I think, winter term(?) of last year, then was doing work for Music at school, her last lesson with her previous teacher was some time in April, and she started with me in August.
She brought her old notebook with her, which I've been using, and when I flipped back to see what other stuff she'd been doing...
Started Jackson Street Blues in April - last mention of it in December.
Started La Chevaleresque in the March - was still working on it in the March of the following year!!
I'm taking her through some Grade 5 stuff to warm her up again, and she's handling it just fine, she's done more repertoire with me in the last 8 weeks than the last year with her previous teacher. And her dad says she's enjoying it, so I'm delighted.

Of course, she knows she can't do G 6 before she has her theory, so that's holding her back nicely while we work on that, and her playing gets back up to scratch. But she's taken to the format so well, it's making the other girl all the more puzzling!
*back on-topic*

Supporting tests...hmmmm, there's a thought. Might leave it a week or two till we get some actual improvement on the pieces, don't want to depress her with more stuff just yet!

Ah, the Pupils-of-Alder concert isn't till the end of February...
I can only handle organising one a year, and I usually don't have too many pupils working on exams in the Spring term, so I slot it in then. It's also just before the school practical exams up here, which means anyone with a programme for that gets to play them in front of an audience, and hopefully make the actual exam less stressful...in theory...

I've been in similar situations with several of my pupils who have transferred from other teachers (or restarted after a long gap). They confidently announce that they are at such and such a level, then proceed to demonstrate that they are nowhere near. I am having terrible struggles with an adult student who is a bit like this - he brings along pieces that are way beyond his capability and refuses to engage with my efforts to improve his technique etc, but that is a whole other story....

Firstly, I am always a bit wary of transfer students - it is good to know why they weren't getting on with their other teacher - I don't accept vague answers on that one any more - details are definitely required - so often there is a problem with student's attitude/lack of practice etc. Gauging someone's level is something I find difficult, and I still tend to over-estimate and end up having to give easier things after a few weeks. There is always a 'getting to know you' stage that has to be gone through.

I think your only option here is to be fairly frank with your student, and say that you need to do some work on all the other areas of the exam before you will consider learning any pieces. Pick one supporting test each week eg aural, start right from the basics ie grade 1 and work up until you find the level that she starts to struggle with. Then start working from there. She is old enough to understand that you need to check out exactly what she has and hasn't been taught, and that you need to be thorough. The point being that you should be able to whizz straight through to grade 3 (bet you don't though....)

When it comes to pieces, you need to spell out your method, whatever it is. For students who insist on hacking through the entire piece and make no progress, it can be quite useful to photocopy the piece, take away their copy, and give them a sheet with a few isolated bars that they have to work on. The novelty value is quite effective, and it shows them how working on tricky bits can improve the whole. When they get their copy back, suddenly a lot of the problems are fixed.

I would consider giving her some much easier pieces (ie grade 2 ish) that aren't obviously labelled as such, to get her into a routine of learning new pieces in a few weeks and moving on. This should help with confidence. You may find that she has never been taught how to practice effectively. One of two things will happen - either she will do things your way and begin to see the benefits, or you will continue to beat your head against the brick wall, in which case I would suggest you part company.

So in 12 pieces time she'll be ready for grade 8 then

Honestly, I think what you've done so far is the right thing - I agree 100% with Sue's suggestions, you can also ease her into the new method of learning with Christmas Carols, and hopefully she'll enjoy the sensation of being able to complete a piece in a couple of weeks and get the idea of where you're coming from.

OK, here is my twopennorthworth! Transfer students are difficult. It takes at least four or six weeks to really get the measure of where their level really is. I no longer take any notice of what I'm told, I find out for myself! Tactfully, you don't want to lose her, suggest that she needs to understand that all pupils are different and so are all teachers. We all have our own little idiosyncracies and tried and tested methods of teaching. What her previous teacher did was not wrong, it is just different to your approach, and you feel comfortable with how you like to do things. Try demonstrating the pieces, at a very high level of performance and then let her see how far she has to go with her own playing. Point out that she could even reach the required exam level sooner using your approach rather than banging away at the same old pieces all the time. Point out it will be more interesting for her. Just don't let her think that you are criticising her old teacher or her own competence at playing, that can be self-defeating.

Interesting thought, my nasty bust-ups with parents have always involved transfer pupils, usually because they just didn't trust my advice. But then again, some of the same group as it were, have been really lovely.

*Takes notes...*
I thought I was getting better at gauging newbie levels! I've been caught out before. I'm genuinely surprised at this lass, though, given that she had actually done Grade 3.

The photocopying and giving out only sections I will bear in mind. Giving her easier pieces and working her up was what brought on the "I don't think these are relevant" remark...

I know! What's it like!

Funnily enough, I was talking to my mum this morning about it and she turned and said, "Yes, but you're not teaching people to pass exams. You're teaching them to play the piano." Out of the mouths of mums...

Another blinding example of those out there who think that you can skip to an exam way ahead of your progress level by taking a year or more to bash through the pieces so that you can play 3 grade 4 pieces and nothing else. She needs a fundamental rethink about how exams work, but the trouble is she'd go elsewhere and just look for another teacher who will do what she wants, skip over the actual learning and just go straight to the testing. Grrrr.

I am so glad that others here have some helpful suggestions for not wading in there being annoyed by it! In the last school I taught in we received a new child who had apparently passed her Level A (government test) in Maths and Language and we could not for the life of us work out how, she didn't know anything. I mean, ask her to find the number 62 in a 100 square and she had no clue whether to look near the beginning or the end, no understanding that 62 is not going to come near 23. I think she had just been put in and put in and put in for the test until she got lucky once.

I suppose maybe you can break it down to something she's familiar with from school, like didn't you have to learn to read before you could do maths? And although reading is not maths it's the skill that makes it possible for you to find out what the question is. The piano has the same things, you need to learn how to do things and then you can put them into their places in the exam pieces, it's not just about learning to play those 2 bars.

I think the biggest oversight in my musical education was that in the early days nobody taught me to practice, so I just went home and played my pieces every day, straight through, job done. When I went to a private teacher she taught me to read through for the trickiest parts, isolate what was difficult, decide on a method that would help me with that (e.g. string crossing without the LH fingers, position work, a scale in that awkward key) and then use that to lead on to practicing the part I had difficulty with. Only then would we have a look at the beginning! It's such an assumption that children (and adults) will know how to practice, and just because someone has been playing for a while or plays another instrument definitely don't assume they know how it's done. I love the idea of physically sectioning off particular bars by photocopying them in isolation, that's marvellous! If she only has the left hand then she can only practice the left hand!

Maybe even bait her with the idea of skipping grade 4 if she follows your method of using repertoire instead of just the exam book.

I think in this kind of scenario the pupil's always going to feel a bit demoralised; she thinks she's ready to do Grade 4 you don't! How's about this:

Look excited when you see the Grade 4 book, and play through the pieces for her to let her choose her favourites. Then have a discussion about the difficulties in each of them. Has she played anything in that key before? Will she be able to play clear staccato at that speed? Does she know how to bring out a LH cantabile melody? These are random examples, and I don't know what's on for AB Grade 4 at the minute, but the idea is not to demoralise, but to pinpoint what she'll need to work on, and then find her other repertoire that has these characteristics - not with a view to perfecting the other repertoire, but with a view to improving the particular techniques required for the the exam pieces. Then she still has the exam as her goal, if that's what she wants, but with a guarantee that she'll learn to play the exam pieces well much more quickly. And she'll be getting lots of sight reading practice in along the way without even realising it.

I saw my girl today! The pupil after her didn't turn up (that's another story - grr!) so I jumped at the opportunity to have a good long chat with the girl and her mum. I explained that I'd spent the past few weeks assessing her and had found some things at Grade 3 which still needed work, but that we have addressed these now. I pointed out that Grade 4 scales and sight reading skills are underway, but that it will take some months until these are ready. I talked about the pieces she will be learning next (duets, Christmas music, folk tunes and some Grade 3-4 classics) and why (to consolidate rhythm, learn new keys and time signatures, and how to realise ornaments). Then the girl and the mum said "It is a better way. It's more thorough" THEN "so you're not just teaching her to pass the exam" - didn't I read that earlier in the thread?! Hooray! I said we'd take the decision about the exam entry just before the entry date, in April, and in the meantime she had Christmas performances and my Spring pupils' concert to look forward to. Oh, and had she considered joining flute group at school?

Sorted! For now...

yay well done elliewellie, let's just hope Alder's turns out to be as sensible.

More thanks to everyone else who has replied! Cookies for all!

My pupil was in earlier, and this week was definitely a bit more productive. She'd obviously worked a bit on Sea Pink - still struggling with the middle section, but we went over that during the lesson. The Minuet (W F Bach, I think) hasn't seen much practice at all, though, the three flats really seems to throw her. I've sent her off with the scale of Eb to look over, separately, which I'm hoping will help with the scale passages in the piece.

Her scales, surprisingly, seem not too bad, so far, though they've clearly not been kept up since she left her last teacher. We're running through the Grade 3 scales and sight reading again to bring them back up to scratch. (Her general note-reading is weak, so of course, that brings down the sight-reading...)

Lots of new stuff to think about though, thank you everyone.