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Lucid
Hi everyone,

I had a flute lesson this afternoon and was really looking forward to it as I've been practising a fair bit lately and thought I'd cracked the embouchure and higher notes issue. Ever since I've started the flute I've had an issue with playing the higher notes because of the adjustment you need to make to your embouchure. I thought I'd improved as I read somewhere that you should tighten the corners of your mouth to get the higher notes, and this seemed to work. However I'm now feeling a little disappointed as my teacher pointed out that my embouchure was too smiley and that I was still overblowing for the higher notes, so I haven't changed anything for the better regarding my embouchure. I think another problem I have is that the aperture is too wide. So I've been told that I need to push forward with my jaw more and cover more of the hole with my lower lip for the higher notes. This is something I find really difficult as it requires you to be very flexible with your embouchure. I was just wondering if anyone has any useful tips of how to practise the flexibility. Slurred octaves is the obvious exercise and I imagine the most beneficial, but I just wondered if there's any other ways or any good pieces that cover this? I've got the Trevor Wye books but would probably prefer finding actual pieces of music that I could work on to improve this. Also if anyone has tips for forming the correct embouchure shape that'd be good too. For example on the saxophone the shape is similar to when you say 'oooh'.

In the long term is it really a case that flautists are constantly changing their embouchure position for each register? I know they are required to be very flexible with their embouchure but when I've seen people play I've never noticed them moving their jaw loads etc.

Thanks for any tips or advice. Lucid smile.gif
Alicia Ocean
QUOTE(Lucid @ Nov 2 2009, 05:27 PM) *


In the long term is it really a case that flautists are constantly changing their embouchure position for each register?


Yes. And also for individual notes to correct the pitch, like with an oboe, or a Baroque flute.

Playing harmonics up from low C is the single most useful embouchure exercise. I can get 7 harmonics normally. If it drops to 6 I know I haven't been doing enough practice.
Flossie
QUOTE(Lucid @ Nov 2 2009, 05:27 PM) *

Ever since I've started the flute I've had an issue with playing the higher notes because of the adjustment you need to make to your embouchure. I thought I'd improved as I read somewhere that you should tighten the corners of your mouth to get the higher notes, and this seemed to work. However I'm now feeling a little disappointed as my teacher pointed out that my embouchure was too smiley and that I was still overblowing for the higher notes, so I haven't changed anything for the better regarding my embouchure.

Don't think of embouchure in terms of 'tightening' anything because these leads to tension, and often encourages a smiley embouchure. You need to focus the muscles rather than actively trying to tighten them. I was originally taught a smiley embouchure (by a school flute teacher who also taught clari, oboe and bassoon) which has been very difficult to get rid of, and it still creeps back in if I'm stressed, tired or frustrated.

QUOTE(Lucid @ Nov 2 2009, 05:27 PM) *

I think another problem I have is that the aperture is too wide. So I've been told that I need to push forward with my jaw more and cover more of the hole with my lower lip for the higher notes. This is something I find really difficult as it requires you to be very flexible with your embouchure.

For the top octave you need a narrower, taller embouchure. The edges of your lips should be together but not tight. Try thinking of it looking more like the tall thin number 0 on the computer keyboard rather than the round letter O. Your jaw controls the direction of the airstream, which needs to be higher for the top octave.

QUOTE(Lucid @ Nov 2 2009, 05:27 PM) *

I was just wondering if anyone has any useful tips of how to practise the flexibility. Slurred octaves is the obvious exercise and I imagine the most beneficial, but I just wondered if there's any other ways or any good pieces that cover this? I've got the Trevor Wye books but would probably prefer finding actual pieces of music that I could work on to improve this.

The harmonics exercises Alicia mentions are very good. I also practice jumps up and down the scale keeping one of the notes the same and changing the other. Sometimes I will keep the top note the same (e.g. if I'm wanting to do intensive work on top F#) e.g. I'll play the top note and then go down the scale (generally two octaves to get the really big jumps in) returning to the top note in between each of the notes of the scale. Other times I do the reverse and keep the bottom note the same and gradually get further and further away from it with the top note.

QUOTE(Lucid @ Nov 2 2009, 05:27 PM) *

Also if anyone has tips for forming the correct embouchure shape that'd be good too. For example on the saxophone the shape is similar to when you say 'oooh'.

I personally would avoid thinking of embouchure in terms of sounds. Partly because your embouchure does need to change a lot for different notes, and partly because a lot of people seem to associate different sounds e.g. aaw, eee and ooo with different moods or tone colours (or at least this is how I've been taught...others may disagree)

QUOTE(Lucid @ Nov 2 2009, 05:27 PM) *

In the long term is it really a case that flautists are constantly changing their embouchure position for each register? I know they are required to be very flexible with their embouchure but when I've seen people play I've never noticed them moving their jaw loads etc.

You need to constantly change for each note rather than each octave/register. It's not a case of suddenly changing your jaw position and embouchure when you go from one octave to the next (like suddenly adding a register key), this needs to be done gradually as you go up/down each octave. The exact embouchure for each note will also change depending on things like dynamics and tuning, and will change between individual players and flutes. When I changed flutes last year some of the notes were in a completely different place embouchure-wise compared to my old flute, and I still occasionally slip back into the 'old' positions.
Lucid
QUOTE(Alicia Ocean @ Nov 2 2009, 05:33 PM) *

QUOTE(Lucid @ Nov 2 2009, 05:27 PM) *


In the long term is it really a case that flautists are constantly changing their embouchure position for each register?


Yes. And also for individual notes to correct the pitch, like with an oboe, or a Baroque flute.

Playing harmonics up from low C is the single most useful embouchure exercise. I can get 7 harmonics normally. If it drops to 6 I know I haven't been doing enough practice.


Hi Alicia. Thanks for the tip. So when playing each harmonic is it all done completely from the embouchure rather than trying to overblow to get them?

Thanks, Lucid smile.gif

QUOTE(Flossie @ Nov 2 2009, 06:26 PM) *

You need to constantly change for each note rather than each octave/register. It's not a case of suddenly changing your jaw position and embouchure when you go from one octave to the next (like suddenly adding a register key), this needs to be done gradually as you go up/down each octave. The exact embouchure for each note will also change depending on things like dynamics and tuning, and will change between individual players and flutes. When I changed flutes last year some of the notes were in a completely different place embouchure-wise compared to my old flute, and I still occasionally slip back into the 'old' positions.


Hi Flossie,

Thanks for the very detailed reply and tips. I didn't realise it was a case of having to adjust for every single note, and I probably was thinking of moving my jaw like I was simply adding a register key laugh.gif - that's a good way of putting it. I heard Jethro Tull on the tv a few months ago (before the big flute event he played at) saying that he started the flute because someone said it was the easiest woodwind instrument to learn. I can't see how it's easy at all when you consider that you need to be flexible for each note as you've said, I can't imagine trying to teach a little kid to adjust their embouchure for each note. I'm hoping to be able to teach one day but until I can understand and do all of this myself there's no chance. I think the flexibility part is the hardest issue for me as I'm used to keeping my embouchure still for the clarinet and saxophone. But I'm really keen to improve my playing so hopefully with yours and Alicia's tips I can get going.

Thanks again, Lucid smile.gif
Alicia Ocean
QUOTE(Lucid @ Nov 2 2009, 07:15 PM) *

So when playing each harmonic is it all done completely from the embouchure rather than trying to overblow to get them?



Yes - to play those high notes ppp you cannot overblow them. The high notes need a fast airspeed but not more air - that needs both lip control and control of the diaphragm too.

A good diaphragm exercise is to play long notes without taking a breath first. Start from a relaxed position but don't inhale and then time how long you can blow for. The diaphragm will go up and when you relax it will fall back and inhale for you.

Practicing playing low notes loudly and high notes quietly is useful. I teach a warm up which consists of Trevor Wye's "getting louder as you go down in pairs of notes" exercise, followed by harmonics as quietly as possible.

I have a couple of woodwind teachers as pupils - both can play clarinet and sax but struggle with the flute. It's not just the embouchure - the breathing is very different too.

QUOTE(Flossie @ Nov 2 2009, 06:26 PM) *

I also practice jumps up and down the scale keeping one of the notes the same and changing the other. Sometimes I will keep the top note the same (e.g. if I'm wanting to do intensive work on top F#) e.g. I'll play the top note and then go down the scale (generally two octaves to get the really big jumps in) returning to the top note in between each of the notes of the scale. Other times I do the reverse and keep the bottom note the same and gradually get further and further away from it with the top note.



That's the exercise which makes people realise their flute isn't good enough. You need a good flute to hop about the octaves.
Lucid
QUOTE(Alicia Ocean @ Nov 2 2009, 07:30 PM) *

I have a couple of woodwind teachers as pupils - both can play clarinet and sax but struggle with the flute. It's not just the embouchure - the breathing is very different too.


Thanks again. Yes I definitely found the breathing really difficult too. When I first started I could get through a bar at a time if I was lucky before I had to breathe! Now I can almost play full phrases on slow pieces but do find it fluctuates - probably because of my embouchure. However in my lesson today I was appalling at breath control which again was disappointing because I have definitely improved. It must have been because I was in the lesson situation. biggrin.gif My teacher does think I've got potential to be quite good on the flute but I really need to get my embouchure and control sorted. Once I do I'm hoping to get more playing work and hopefully teaching work too. I will certainly be getting on with yours and Flossie's suggestions in my practice tomorrow.

Thanks, Lucid smile.gif
notmusimum


There's a really good tutorial on emboucher by Sir James Gallway on Youtube. Might be of some help to you.
Flossie
QUOTE(Alicia Ocean @ Nov 2 2009, 07:34 PM) *

QUOTE(Flossie @ Nov 2 2009, 06:26 PM) *

I also practice jumps up and down the scale keeping one of the notes the same and changing the other. Sometimes I will keep the top note the same (e.g. if I'm wanting to do intensive work on top F#) e.g. I'll play the top note and then go down the scale (generally two octaves to get the really big jumps in) returning to the top note in between each of the notes of the scale. Other times I do the reverse and keep the bottom note the same and gradually get further and further away from it with the top note.



That's the exercise which makes people realise their flute isn't good enough. You need a good flute to hop about the octaves.

It was. laugh.gif Along with the fact that the flute wasn't giving me the kind of response I wanted for tone colouring and my teacher couldn't get what I was wanting out of my flute either.
Lucid
QUOTE(notmusimum @ Nov 2 2009, 10:19 PM) *

There's a really good tutorial on emboucher by Sir James Gallway on Youtube. Might be of some help to you.


Thanks I'll check it out. Lucid smile.gif
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