Once you've had toxoplasmosis, you tend to think rather differently about animal doo-doos....I know that is a cat (and fox) one more than dog, but I don't fancy toxocara canis either. It's four years since I caught toxoplasma from not-at-all-obvious animal waste on my allotment - it put me off work sick for four months, lost me a ton of weight and led to investigations in three different hospital departments before the diagnosis was made, including an operation under general anæsthetic: okay, only a single example, and maybe not significant in the wider context, but it may help to explain a cultural aversion to the stuff?
Interesting that the perception on the dog owning front is that there is a lot of hostility to dogs - this thread was the first time I'd come across others who don't like dogs that much in any numbers, and my own experience is more of the opposite, that we're considered to be the antisocial ones...

I don't think anyone is showing hostility to dogs here, but there are plenty of unpleasant tales about dogs being allowed to behave inappropriately. Destroying property, jumping up at people, growling at visitors, large dogs being kept in overcrowded conditions, number 2s not being properly disposed of - all this seems pretty anti-social to me, and suggests inadequate training.

I don't want to live in a police state but I do wish there was a way of making people a bit more accountable for their dogs' behaviour.

I completely agree and I'm a dog owner. I think far too many people now get a dog without realising the full responsibility and there are lots of dogs that don't receive proper training or socialisation. People sometimes seem to expect their dogs to know how to behave when they've never trained them to do so. A lot of people often let their dogs roam wherever they want when they're out on a walk - there's so many times when I'm out on a walk with my dog and another owner just lets their dog come charging over to us from the other side of the field. As my dog missed out on early socialisation (we rescued him at about 17 weeks) he is usually nervous with other dogs but unfortunately he will tell them off rather than try to run away. He's never hurt another dog but he can make a lot of noise sometimes and I get really cross because he's the one who looks like he's causing trouble, when actually it's the other owner who hasn't bothered to control their dog. He is so much better than he was (after lots of work and training) but if a dog charges over unexpectedly he usually panics. However he is well within his rights to make some noise so I've stopped apologising to the owners in this situation now.

I seriously think that they should bring back the licence and a course for anyone who owns a dog. I know it will never happen but if they had something like that it would hopefully encourage some more responsibility and knowledge.

I have never actually seen a dog warden in my area but I wish they'd patrol here because the greens are disgusting. So many people don't clean up and it's really depressing to see. I'm of the opinion that it's bad for the environment and health to leave it so I always clean up.

Lucid

Reminds me of our first Lab who used to insist on giving the eldest Bonios when she was a baby. No tug of war. They would appear from various hiding places to be deposited as a gift. Can't tell you how many times I found her happily sitting (before she could walk) sucking on a Bonio or charcole stick.

One of our extended family was only 5 when we got Rosie. She met him when she was about 8 weeks old, leapt into his arms and washed his face. That set the pattern of their relationship. He's now in his 20's and remembers her fondly.

Absolutely not! If you don't like dogs, then dog owners should respect that view - just as you are obilged to respect their choice to own a dog, should you choose to go to their home.

Responsible dog owners should take precautions (as should responsible parents - I don't appreciate other people's little darlings being allowed to pick up whatever they choose in my home - yet many parents seem to think this is ok) and make sure that you aren't forced to have the dog near you if you either don't like them or are frightened.

Irresponsible pet owners (and parents) make me cross! If you choose to have a pet (child) then you have to take responsibility for its actions, teach it manners and not inflict it on those who don't like it!


@Cyrilla - (with a heavy, world-worn sigh) - ok, I'll force feed you French chocolates if that's what it takes. I'll have to bring an extra suitcase next time I visit the UK!

TWO suitcases????

I think this is acceptable if you are in a rural area and the offending item isn't in the middle of the path. Unfortunately I live in a very built up area with very little green space. Every bit of green (and quite a lot of the pavements) are covered in dog ###### and it is very difficult to avoid especially with a pushchair and in the dark. BTW I don't have a garden so if I get ###### on the pushchair wheels then it has to be cleaned in the kitchen. Apart from the lack of hygiene, the smell is tremendous. Even my son says "mummy, why does our road smell of dog ######?"

Ooops! Seems my naughty word has been censored. I didn't think it was that bad - it's used a lot in this house! Anyway I'm sure you can work it out - begins with 'p' and ends with 'o'.

We have the same problem here in France. There is a small paved square in front of the nursery school my children went to and this was/is always full of dog ###### and impossible to negotiate with a pushchair and a three-year-old. The park where my elder daughter learnt to ride a bike is the same - I had to resign myself to washing thoroughly bike and daughter when we got home I refused to let my younger one try to ride without stabilisers in France and made her wait until we were in England over the summer and knew I could find a clean place for her to get the knack of riding.

If someone's dog had come running into my house that would have been the last time they ever saw it...

It really irks me when some filthy, uncontrolled mutt comes running up to whatever small child is with me, jumps up to them and scares them half to death and the owner says, 'It's all right, he won't hurt you.' Well he already has, in scaring them. They mostly then proceed to call off their dog, knowing full well that it won't come. I've rarely seen a dog that takes any notice of its owner when its called. They just call them to look as if they have some control. Sometimes I'm tempted to go up to the offending owner, put my hands in some mud, wipe them all over the owner and then lick them, and then say, 'It's all right, I won't hurt you'.

I don't dislike dogs, though I can't see the point of them (they don't lay any eggs!), but I hate the way dog owners make you feel as if you're some kind of heartless beast if you don't want their dog with its bare ###### (I don't let the children in my care sit with their bare and nicely cleaned bums on the floor so I can never understand how a dog's bare one is acceptable on the carpet!) in your house. I wouldn't expect anyone to take my chicken into their house. They belong outside, like a dog does.

I am definitely on the side of the dogs though. No one should be allowed a dog who doesn't have a very large garden, with a big cosy kennel, in which the dog can spend its whole day, as a dog should. And if people want to take their dogs off the lead in public they should have to prove that they've properly (and kindly) trained their dog and that it knows who is boss.

Then you could run into problems with the dogs not being as domesticated as they should so possibly behaving worse when out in public. Also dogs left on their own all day (indoors or outdoors) can develop a lot of behavioural problems. They need exercise, socialisation, training and interaction - what's the point in having a dog if you're not going to do those things? You may as well have a hamster.

I do agree that a lot of dogs aren't trained very well, but us dog owners aren't all irresponsible. If my dog ever bothers someone - and he occasionally does as he's certainly not perfectly behaved - then I'm always very apologetic. It is now a rare occurrence that he does but when he was younger he used to want to meet everyone. However I certainly don't expect people to put up with a dog running over to them just because I know he won't do them any harm.

Lucid

I agree, why have a dog if you are going to keep them outside, that's just a boring life for the dog and where is it going to learn any social skills. They are animals, not filthy creatures. I am aware that certain people don't like dogs, but my dog doesn't know that. And I'm the same as Lucid, if my dog runs up to someone, although it's usually just someone else with a dog, then I straight away apologise. Although the only reason my dog would run up to someone is to play but dogs aren't aware that not everyone likes them.


"If someone's dog had come running into my house that would have been the last time they ever saw it..." I would have broke in and took my dog back regardless of whether I was allowed in the house or not!

PSL

I'm constantly working with my dog to get her to behave better. We went to the park yesterday and she was really good. Until another Lab, she plays with appeared, then the two of them charged up to a toddler. Luckily it wasn't frightened as they have dogs themselves. It wasn't for the want of trying but keeping two young dogs under control is very difficult. Especially when their's has no manners/training whatsoever. I knew mine would run up to the child but they claim their's never does (she was the ringleader on this occassion). I suppose people are the same with their dogs as they are with their children. Annoying thing is mine was under control, and would have stayed that way, until the other one started leaping all over me. Guess who ended up red faced and apologising

I've been really working on her behaviour as I can see the problem for other people. If I've got her attention she's fine. I can get her to lie down or sit and let people pass. I have to keep my eyes open all the time though. They stick their dog on the lead as it's easier but she's not learning anything.

My dog seems to have the ability to run over to the person who would probably least like to see him - a person without a dog! He very rarely does it but very occasionally he gets the idea in his head that someone he sees coming wants to be his new best friend. He is nervous of other dogs so he doesn't usually approach other dogs unless they come over to him.

I actually see a lot of dogs as being much better behaved than some children.

Lucid

I'm not saying you should leave your dog on its own outside all day, but when you're not with it that is its natural habitat. Of course you should train and domesticate it but you shouldn't then confine to it to the inside so that it is completely out of control when it finally gets what it needs, that is, to be exercising outisde. People like to think that their dog is some kind of substitute child but its not, it's an animal with completely differnt needs, needs that are not met by being confined in a small house and taken out for 'walks' twice a day. The average wolf (which is what a dog is) would not find such a lifestyle very acceptable.

There is very much a view amongst dog owners that their dog's bad behaviour is a bit naughty or somehow a bit amusing. It's actually anti-social and horrid. It's not the only thing by any means. I'm just as upset by people who speed through residential areas regardless of the children (and dogs) who live there and are put in danger. If a dog doesn't respond to its owner consistently then it should be on a lead. It's not even like a naughty small child because the average small child doesn't weigh very much and can't run very fast.

Believe it or not dogs are not that much different to children. They need love, respect, training, socialising having their basic needs met, just as a child would. That doesn't mean they should be humanised.

The girls often refer to the dog as the furry baby in the family but she's still a dog.

Dogs are socialble animals by enlarge by nature, they don't like being left alone inside or out. ours is lucky as it has a second home with my parents where it goes if I'm working. She gets to go outside regularly as well as taken for walks.






I think somethings the dog does are funny. A few months ago she came downstairs with five rolls of double sided tape in her mouth. Another time it was underware. We laugh at her when she sleeps upside down. At a few weeks old she ran round on the shelf of our coffee table which was really cute (the gap is about 8 inches). None of these things have been encouraged but at the time they were humerous.

I don't think it's funny when she rushes up to people in the park or doesn't listen to what I say. Even though I know she's totally trustworthy. I regularly stick my hands and feet in her mouth to test it out She's more likely to knock someone over in her over enthusiasm even though she's less of a jumper than some other dogs. I guess in another 6 months she'll have grown or been trained out of it.

Sometimes when dogs run up to people the person has without even realising signalled to the dog that it's what they want. Dogs don't use speech to communicate they use eye contact or body language. I've seen people use body language that causes excitment particularly when they are nervous of the situation.

Some dog running in the house wouldn't bother me at all. Providing it wasn't snarling and showing it's teeth to me. It's happend twice to my parents whilst I've been there. Both were young dogs that had escaped from neighbouring houses.

Actually after many years of breeding and domestication pet dogs are not as close to wolves as some people think. They obviously did originate from wolves but there are many differences between them so to compare them and their living environment doesn't really work. Actually a lot of pet dogs will cope with living in a house and being taken out for just one walk a day and getting training and games etc. But it entirely depends on the breed of the dog. I've got a highly energetic and intelligent dog so I need to do as much exercising and training and games as I can to keep him occupied. Where as with other types of dogs you don't need to do so much. The variation between the various breeds and exercise, activities and lifestyle they need has little to do with wolves. Another sad point on dogs that are left outside in kennels or just in the garden is that they are more easy for people to steal.

You seem quite authoritative on your views banjogirl but it is very clear that you are not a dog owner, and therefore don't completely know what owning a dog entails - to put it as nicely as possible. A dog living indoors doesn't mean it's being confined and will contribute to it behaving badly when out. The reason a lot of dogs can misbehave and be antisocial is because they haven't been trained properly or aren't getting enough mental stimulation and exercise. Again this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with where they are living but more what their owners are doing with them. Most dogs when they are left on their own will rest and wait for their owner to return. Dogs with separation anxiety will find things to chew and destroy etc. So even if dogs were left outside in a garden they probably wouldn't be exercising themselves that much - how much exercise can they get from a garden anyway? Exercise needs to mainly come from going out on walks (both on lead and off) where they can get the mental stimulation of different smells etc. If owners are responsible and research the dog they've got then they should be able to give it what it needs - unfortunately not everyone does. Of course even when you do everything right it doesn't mean that your dog will never do something you don't want it to - try to meet someone who is coming in their direction for example - but they should be a lot better behaved than some. Obviously you must have come across a lot of rude dog owners for you to have your views which is a shame because I know a lot who are responsible and don't find it amusing if their dog causes trouble.

I agree with notmusimum in that dogs and children are quite similar. This doesn't mean I'm some kind of idiot and think of my dog as a child replacement and treat him like one because I don't. But they both need a lot of looking after etc. I would personally much prefer to have a dog to a child and our dog is part of our family - but again it doesn't mean we treat him like a human. I actually come across much more rudeness and nastiness from both children and adults than I do with dogs, but I guess that's the way of people.

Lucid

I think the problem is where I live that there are just so many dogs that we are at breaking point - and a good proportion of them are not trained and ARE a danger. I must admit I am not a dog lover but I can understand why some people like them. I thought that it was very telling that Notmusimum referred to her dog as "she" and to the toddler in the park as "it".

On the question of dogs living indoors or outdoors I have a half bred Pyreneen mountain dog whose original owners kept her outside in a pen. When we took her on she was allowed to live indoors, but there have always been problems. She dislikes being left outside as it obviously reminds her of a very uncomfortable outside life - she didn't have much of a shelter and the dog in the pen with her ate most of the food.

The result is that she is an inveterate thief as far as food is concerned - ours, the cats' the other dog's. When outside she stays close to the house despite a very large garden. She is terrified of rain. She digs holes in the garden to lie down in - which I think is characteristic of dogs living outside without proper kennels. She has never really formed a strong bond with us. We are very fond of her and have done all we can to eradicate the problems caused by her early experiences but we have not been completely successful.

A lot of people keep hunting dogs here and they are normally outside in a pen. But I would never advocate that a family dog be kept in this way and I would certainly think twice before taking on another dog that had been reared outside.

Apart from preferring to have a dog than I child I agree with this! (I have a dog and children.)

I wonder if many people are genuinely frightened by a dog running close by them or if they just find it distasteful? Most dogs have no particular interest in going up to a complete stranger in order to jump up or slobber on them. They are simply passing close by, and there have been occasions when my dog has 'passed close by' a toddler, perhaps slowing down slightly on passing and casting a glance, but with no intention of jumping or annoying, and I've received a dirty look from the mother. I don't lump all small children together and find them all distasteful just because the odd one has been a disturbance of the peace in a restaurant that I've been in - or left wee all over the toilet seat, or licked cutlery that wasn't meant for it! On other occasions my dog has been in the river and children have found it amusing to throw stones - and the mother has said nothing, I being the one to receive the dirty looks for telling the children to stop it.

Oh my God I feel ill reading some of these stories.

Whenever I have stayed overnight at friends who have cats or dogs, their animals always try to sleep in my bed - and people think this is normal behaviour. Excuse me

Once when I was house-sitting for a friend and her cat, I had to abandon the house within 24 hours because the cat and the house were infested with fleas and I was covered in bites. When she got back from her holiday she blamed me for giving her cat fleas (even though he had just been de-flead before she went off so there was a good chance the furniture was infested). I don't have allergies to any particular animal, but sometimes I feel like pretending I do because pet owners don't always understand that I don't love their animals unconditionally as they do.

Now when I am travelling by train I always avoid the shared table seats after travelling alongside some people who put their pet guinea pig on the table. That really put me off my sandwiches. And then another time someone placed their cat, which was in a basket, behind a seat at the end of the carriage. Then they howled when someone else plonked a suitcase on top of the basket. Considering it was Christmas and almost everyone on the train had heaps of luggage what else did they expect?

I think I'm scared of dogs based on childhood experience. On my way to school I had to pass an alsation which was chained up and always barking loudly at the very end of his tether. And every day on my way home from school I was chased to the end of my street by an alsation/collie cross - fortunately I could still run in high heels and a skirt. I realised that he would be fine once I got off his territory, but honestly why do pedestrians have to put up with this?

I think humans > dogs > cats (even though I used to have cats when I was a child). I understand that pets are good company for a lot of people, but that shouldn't mean I have to put up with their animals. The only pets I like are the ones that can stand up on two legs, preferably house-trained

If it had been me I'd have naively expected the person to suggest I move the cat rather than just put something on top of it.

It wasn't obvious what was in the basket. It was tucked in a corner and looked like normal luggage. When I am stacking up luggage my first thought isn't "Could someone have placed some livestock here?"

Not suprised you abandoned. But nowadays there is no excuse for fleas. There are plenty of very effective "Spot On" type treatments and even in our very warm climate our five animals are flealess. It's expensive and you have to remember to treat regulalry but it does work.

I have been quite nuts about animals ever since childhood and have had enormous pleasure from all my feline and canine companions. I do, however, appreciate that not everyone likes or can cope with animals.
But it gives me a twinge of sadness that people have had bad animal experiences because when it works, the relationship with an animal is something special.

The animals that we have as pets are neither cynical nor judgemental; they just aim to please most of the time, and sometimes they get it wrong. It's true that they are descended from wolves, but not just with regard to wolves being wild animals; wolves are very sociable creatures, caring deeply for their young, respecting their elders, and living as a community. The domestic dog lives as a member of a community too - its human family. Wolves actually don't fight that much, because each animal knows its place, and its when a domestic dog misunderstands its place within a family that things can go wrong. Just like children, they need consistency of expectations from those around them.

The story of the dog supposedly under control rushing up to a toddler appalled me - that is exactly what I mean about dogs not being under control in public places - if a dog is skittish, and still in the process of being trained to behave, then letting it off the lead where there are small children is just not on - a dog owner may know their pet is unlikely to chew a child's face off, but the child doesn't know that, and nor does the child's mother - so really, the dirty look from a mum in those circumstances is completely comprehensible - and I would have done the same, when my two were small. A parallel to this might be the sort of thing I would see in the surgery, of a patient coming in utterly mortified and embarrassed about needing an examination or having a condition which needed me to ask fairly personal questions - I'd never dare assume that just because I'm not fazed by the situation, they ought not to be either. I will do my utmost to reduce distress - and in the case of dogs bouncing over people who don't like that, the apology comes too late, and is also often too feeble, in the nature of, "oh s/he won't hurt you"...
I don't go as far as banjogirl's statement though - much as I am not really keen on pets of any kind, I do understand that others like to keep them: my grouse is more with those whose method of keeping them impinges on the comfort of others.

From another point of view I've had children run over to my dog suddenly and alarm him when he's be on his lead, or caused him to get excited when he's off his lead - or on one occasion a stick was thrown at (not for) my dog by a child. I've also been walking along the road to come across a group of about 4 older teenage boys who thought it would be hilarious to shout and pretend to kick a football at us as we were passing very closeby, which again was very unnerving. It's all very well expecting dogs to be perfectly behaved all of the time but people can be unpredictable too and can certainly cause trouble so it is unrealistic to think that dogs will always behave. They are not some kind of magical being that will never go wrong. We can aim to keep them under as much control as possible, and I certainly do, but it is not always the dog owner's fault - and very occasionally the dog (like a person) just wants to playup.

I completely agree that if a dog is aggressive towards people and other dogs then it should be kept on a lead and if it bites, muzzled. My sister's young staffordshire bull terrier pup was recently attacked by a dog that charged over to it from the other side of the common and bit it a couple of times. The owner ran over and grabbed the dog and left without really saying anything. They've since learnt that it is a very aggressive dog that will clearly seek other dogs to attack. The owner should not be letting it off its lead if they know this. That is just completely irresponsible.

Lucid

I see where you're coming from if the dog actually makes contact with the toddler in any way - unbalancing it, or even running straight at it - but not if the dog just happens to be passing nearby; it's as if, in this case, it's the dog's very existence that is unacceptable, and I feel I that in this case a strong adverse reaction is more an illustration of society's intolerance than it is a genuine belief that the dog has ill intent. It's the same sort of thing as a mother being unduly concerned if a man approaches her child. Just because the very occasional man (sorry, men - I do mean VERY) may be a pervert doesn't mean we should be suspicious of them all, and the very occasional report of a dog biting a child in a park doesn't mean we should assume this is a strong possibility. Both perverted men and toddler-attacking dogs are extremely rare, and I don't think we should create unnecessary paranoia in our children about either.

Jumping up on someone (toddler or otherwise), slobbering on them, shaking dirty water over them, plopping in their pathway - all these things are unacceptable - but I don't think it's fair on dogs or their owners for them not to be allowed in the vicinity of toddlers at all without getting dirty looks. Maybe the answer is for parks to be segregated (which is actually the case in the one near me) - some areas requiring dogs to be either excluded altogether or kept on a lead, but where there are also areas in which we're allowed to exercise our dogs properly. A big dog on a lead isn't getting what it needs.

I'd not go so far as to get upset about the dog passing nearby, no, and maybe I mixed up two stories here: it was the story of the dog which had allegedly been under control until it met a friend dog which appalled me, as did the other one of the kid having his face "washed" - eeeeew - in need of a wash after the contact, more like....
Having had enough experience of dogs which were not reliable, I am inclined to be wary on initial contact - why is that wrong? And why is it wrong to teach kids that not all dogs are the sort of creature you can rely on? I have two kids, one of whom likes dogs, the other dislikes them and took a while to get used to the relatively nice dog the neighbours had - I've brought both of them up, so you can't assume that my dislike has led to neurosis in my offspring, temperament comes into it too, as it does for most learning experiences.

Exactly - we have a hamster (and 2 goldfish).

The trouble with dogs running up to children (or even adults) is that the children or their parents don't know that the dog may be safe, and just being friendly. I would opt for discouraging the dog (by ignoring it if possible) every time. Heaven forbid, after you've been attacked is too late. (But all you dog-lovers must make allowance for those of us who are truly nervous of dogs because of our own past history.)

Having nailed my colours to the mast on this issue I feel that I can now reveal how I was completely embarrassed by someone else's cat....

Where I used to live there were lots of baby birds in the garden. In spring I enjoyed watching the blackbirds surreptitiously feeding their young and the baby sparrows fluffing up their feathers as they sunned themselves on top of my shed. Awww, they were so cute! In the background there was always one of the neighbour's cats eyeing them up and that was my cue to get out the pump-action water pistol. The cat always saw me coming and dashed off, but at least the birds lived.

Then one day I spotted a black cat ready to pounce on the innocent babies and this one was a regular visitor to my garden. At least his owner had put a bell round his neck to warn everyone that he was around. The water pistol wasn't at hand so I filled up a jug with water and strolled outside - a different approach from usual. This cat was obviously one of those over-petted ones who was used to manipulating people. He simply sat there posing with his head to one side as if to say, "Look at me. I'm adorable". Well it was too easy. I sloshed him with the water and he scampered off in embarrassment.

A few weeks later I was at a friend's barbecue, a few streets away. At one point her neighbour disappeared then there was a bit of commotion next door, followed by a tinkling noise. "Who's dat den?" said her neighbour holding up a cat so that it could peep over the fence and wave its paw at us. "It's George!". Without thinking I burst out, "I know him. He's the one I soaked when he was chasing birds in my garden". Uh oh, I couldn't take my words back. "But it couldn't have been George, he would have had to cross that busy road". Although I didn't think it was a big problem that he couldn't press the button at the pedestrian crossing I decided to retreat.

Used to have a female and a male labrador......... well, guess what the male liked doing to the female....... in full view of the generals public....... (and they were both neutered too....!

It's probably just a fact that's neither right nor wrong! We're all wary of things that we've had bad experiences with. The problem with attitudes to dogs - if there is a problem - is that ordinary pets, as opposed to status symbols, are not as common as they used to be - and more people have limited experience of these, only coming into contact with untrained ones, which is self-propelling, as people like me, who are sick of encountering dogs that fight with other dogs, won't get another one when this one goes. The ordinary dog in the street is suffering because of some unpleasant ones and because the resulting intolerance - or wariness - of non doggy people towards all dogs. I don't really think it's a blame issue - it's just the way things are going, but I do think it's a pity, because a dog is a great companion to have.

OK - let me start by saying that both my wife and I adore dogs.

Having said that we are very aware that not everyone does and we try to be "responsible".

Our darling German Shepherd mix "Fluffy" was great with people and especially children and we used to take he up to our local coffee shop on Saturdays. Children would come over and ask if they could stroke her. We ALWAYS suggested to the children that they ask their parents' permission first and then would explain to the parents that Fluff was very gentle. We would never let Fluff approach a child or person and she was always kept on a lead in a public place, which is the law here in Bermuda.

A few years ago new neighbours moved in and their little girl, about 8 at the time, was scarred stiff of dogs and had previously had a bad experience. Well she soon got to know Fluff and the little girl overcame her fear, so much so that they then got two dogs of their own.

Sadly Fluff died last year and we were heartbroken.

Now to the embarrasment!!!!

Earlier this year we adopted two rescue dogs from our local shelter - Oliver (whippet cross hansome like his dad!!) who is about 8 and Enya, a terrier mix who is about 10.

Unfortunately Enya must have been badly treated in the past and is very nervous. Bot dogs were siezed by the dog warden. Anyway one day we were walking them and two tourists came up to us and told us how lovely they were. We told them that we had just adopted them and they thought it was wonderful. Unfortunately, just at that moment Enya took an interest in their grocery shopping bag and wouldn't let go!!!! It was like seeing a mobile washing line moving down the road Tourist - Shopping Bag - Enya - My Wife all in a long line strung together. We were mortified as we think Enya ripped the bag!!! We saw them a few days later and they said they didn't mind at all and that we had done such a wonderful thing.

The funny thing is that we don't see it that way - my boy "Ollibob" has in fact saved me from what was getting to be a burgeoning depression/wallowing in self pity after Fluff died. We didn't adopt them because we felt sorry for them, we did so because we wanted them to come and live with us.

Oliver has since had a major knee operation and thanks to a terrific vet and tremendous aftercare from a lady that has a hydrotherapy tank, he is doing really well. If you didn't know he had an operation I don't think you could tell.

Anyway, regardless of how we feel about our dogs we would never leave them to bother others and certainly would not have left Fluff unattended with children - for eveyone's sake.

It's due to the fact that "Ollibob" rescued me that I am now playing music again. Fluff died a couple of weeks after I passed my grade 8 and she used to sit next to me as I played. When she died I just couln't play and then got more and more depressed. Then along came Ollibob and Enya.........!!!!

Good luck to all
Kind Regards,

Nigel

My dog behaves himself. He's learning (at only 3 and a half months) that you don't jump at people, you don't beg for food and when you're told to sit still you do so. This has always been the case with all of my dogs.

Many dog owners take the time and effort necessary to train their animal and don't appreciate haughty comments such as 'dogs should be kept outside' - my usual response to that is 'I don't recall asking you for your opinion on how to run my home'. I don't know why some non dog-lovers think it's ok to give their opnion constantly to dog owners - but it's not. I have no problems with telling people to butt out if they overstep the mark however 'well-meaning' their advice is.

Of course I can do this from the position of a responsible dog owner who would never allow his dog to hassle anyone, wouldn't force visiting friends to have contact with the dog unless they ask and would NEVER allow the dog to try to sleep in a visitor's bed. Yet I still get casual remarks from people, usually masquerading as helpful concern 'you know you really should think about (insert dog related advice from someone who doesn't have one here)'.

As for clearing up dog mess - I feel that as owners we should do it. Certainly at times it's silly - leaving it under a bush somewhere is far more environmentally friendly that wrapping it in plastic and leaving it to not break down in a bin. I don't believe that it's a good idea to try to make life a totally risk free occupation and I do believe that human beings should take responsibility for what happens to them - which includes learning 'don't touch dog mess when you see it'. If we bubble wrap the whole world we will simply end up with nations of idiots who can't take care of themselves unless the nanny state does it for them. Besides, clearing it up - according to Anacrusis our medical expert on this thread - doesn't mean that someone won't catch a disease - in fact the less visible the traces of it are, the more likely someone is to touch it- one could argue.

I'm not in anyway condoning leaving dog mess in public places of course, but I do believe it's important for people to take responsibility for their actions (if you trip over a paving stone, get over it and stop looking for someone to sue, for example) rather than constantly expecting to be spoon fed everything and live in a perfect world where nothing bad ever happens.

So this is a heartfelt plea to non dog-lovers - please stop giving us advice. We don't want it and it's generally faulty. It's also rude to tell other people how to live their lives and slightly condescending.

Here's my heartfelt plea to the dog-lovers - we love our dogs, not everyone does and that's ok. Let's train them to behave well (or as well as is possible for dogs with previous psychological problems) and not force people to have contact with them unless they actively ask for it.

If each group attempts to keep their side of the bargain, no one will have to be scared by errant dogs and no one will have to get presumptious and unwanted advice from someone who doesn't know about owning a dog.

See how happy we'd all be ?

rosfrog for World President!

Rosfrog,

You make some good points, but ultimately it's irresponsible owners who give us all a bad rap.

Certainly with our new dogs it's apparent that they both have issues due to their previous predicaments. We understand this but also we understand that it is not appropriate for example to take Enya, who is a very nervous dog, to the coffee shop that we used to take Fluff. She wouldn't like it and the other patrons wouldn't either.

It is quite obvious that Enya is happy in her new home and feels that it is her comfort zone. When she is at home and relaxed she is wonderful and very loving. When whe is out of the home she is nervous and we feel that it is not appropriate for us to inflict her on other people. Given this we chose, carefully, where we walk her so that she keeps as calm as she can.

We can all say "well she needs socialising" - but she's 10 and we've only had her a couple of months!!

We live in Bermuda where people come and go from time to time and we were told that when her
previous owners left the island, they simply left her behind, tied up and abandonded - no wonder she's nervous.

I agree completely that people shouldn't opine on how you run your home, unless you are maltreating an animal. In the same way I wouldn't dream of telling someone how to bring up their children.

Sorry, but at the end of the day I believe that it's the irresponsible owners that give the rest of us a bad rap.

Kind Regards,

Nigel

@ Nigel - I agree with you actually. I firmly believe that all dog-owners should take responsibility for their dogs (hence my plea to dog-lovers at the end).

@ Maizie - Cor - that's a job and a half ! Perhaps we can share ?

Rosfrog,

Agree with you - Couldn't put it better - Fluffy was a darling - really well behaved, but we didn't force people to have contact with her unless they actively asked to.

Enya has issues, and we understand this and are trying to the best we can for her.

As for "My Boy Ollibob" well he's just MAGIC!!!!

We've been out of the UK for a long while now - I just can't understand why they've done away with dog licences. Responsible dog owners won't mind - surely this is just pandering to the irresponsible owners.

As I mentioned before all dogs in Bermuda in a public place must be kept on a lead. Whilst not ideal for people who don't have large gardens, there are some private beaches where dogs are taken when it's quiet for a good old romp about.

Kind Regards,

Nigel

Well, that is a lovely story NigelC and I am very happy that you love your dogs and feel better for having them. You are also very responsible owners, as are the other dog loving posters on here. It is unfortunate that not everyone shares your sense of responsibility. The rest of us who are rather nervous of dogs very much appreciate responsible dog owners.

My comment which you've picked up on here was certainly not intended to be "haughty". I wouldn't dream of telling anyone how to run their home. In context it was intended to point out how unhygienic I found it when some people we know keep their dog in the kitchen. I've done several parasitology courses as part of my degree, and I was speaking from the hygiene point of view.

I really like dogs and am not scared of them a bit (sorry rosfrog, I still love cats though ), still the unreasonable behaviour of our neighbours made me steam. I had started a thread on this a while back:

http://www.abrsm.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=38425&hl=

If you own a dog, you have a responsibility - for both the dog's and the people around you sakes. If we find dog p'oo acceptable in a bin or under a bush is not so much the question - if we insist on not telling dog owners how to live their lives, then the reverse should also be the case: I find in unacceptable if the neighbours' dog fouls our communal garden because they are too lazy or busy to walk it. They are then also forcing their way of life on me. If the dog howls all day because it suffers (!) from separation anxiety, they also force their way of life on me.
It's not 'love me, love my dog'. I don't have to love the dog or the neighbours

The problem is sort of solved now - all neighbours told them off one Sunday morning (you should have seen their faces when 6 or so people were standing in front of their door) - at least the 'crappy business'

The howling is a bit better because the dog seems to adjust a bit now, and they probably also made an effort to take it out a bit more often. Shame is just that one person saying it has done nothing - they had to feel slightly intimidated (no, we didn't beat them up ) by half of the block first, and that's really annoying. One opinion doesn't count, it's exactly this: "Don't tell me how to live my life"-thing again.

I think a bit of mutual respect always helps, but it obviously doesn't just work one way. Again: This is no rant towards the responsible dog owners out there, but there are sadly also a lot who are not responsible. And that's, first of all, a problem for the dog, which evetually turns into a problem for other people ...

I wasn't picking up on your comment Susie - which I didn't find haughty actually as you didn't direct it at anyone in particular - just relating my own experience !

I have to say that a dog on the floor in the kitchen doesn't appear less hygienic to me than a dirty handed child touching things on the counter top, though. Especially if said dog is cared for properly by his owners.

I think it's the (sadly) quite high proportion of irresponsible or love-blinded dog owners which can make non-dog owners so anti-dog. I have to say that I have rarely seen a dog which when called by its owner actually responded. I know there are lots of responsible dog owners but the ones who come to people's attention are the ones with howling dogs (a friend's dogs did this all day and her response was to wonder what her neighbours expected when the dogs were confined to their small garden! The lack of space being unfair to the dogs, and it being her fault, didn't seem to occur to her), the ones who leave dog muck everywhere (and it really isn't reasonable to expect children, or anyone in the dark, to see dog muck or even have to always look at the ground when walking in case there is some) and the ones with disobedient dogs who tell you their dog won't hurt you (how do they know it's not going to be the first time?) when it's already scared your toddler and won't come when its called.

I do actually like dogs but I'm saddened by the way a lot are treated and there are a lot of owners who think everyone should like their pet as much as they do. I'm delighted that people enjoy having dogs as long as the dog has a proper doggy life, but I'm not delighted to have to watch my every step and for my child to be afraid to go to his friend's house because of the big, barking, neglected dog he has to pass on the way.

I agree a child's dirty hands are just as bad as a dog, but I can't see that a person has to choose between one or the other! And I know dog owners think I'm a bit weird for not wanting THEIR dog's bare bottom on MY carpet, and I don't like being thought weird for not wanting muck and parasites on my carpet.

Why do my posts always turn into rants?! I like dogs. But I don't want them spoiling my life and unfortunately there are lots of dog owners who aren't responsible. And then people feel understandably cross and probably unreasonable.