It falls to me this year to play on Remembrance Sunday, and it's my first time.

I've more or less got the rest of the music ready but I can't decide how to launch the National Anthem.

I'm not the Royal Marines so a drum roll is out of the question. Given that we are playing it straight, so to speak, as the final hymn before going to the war memorial, I would appreciate some advice on how to approach this; somehow just playing the first few bars doesn't seem right and I wouldn't want to offend all the reps from the British Legion, the TA and the veterans, gulp.

I should have paid attention in previous years.

You've got me thinking now Mel!

I'm sure we always have it played straight, with only the starting chord as the introduction. It is announced, and the tune (if not the text) is so well known that anything more seems inappropriate.

Being as Remembrance Sunday is a sombre event, I don't think any sort of fanfare is called for.

There is probably a protocol for this, but I don't know what it is.

In any case, I always miss the first part of the service, as I am 65 feet up ringing half muffled.

SB

Half-muffled

One way to do it is a big dominant chord, then descending in the bass (octaves plus pedals maybe)

soh, fa, me re ....

Crash.

Not sure if this helps ...?

Oooh! Just tried it out on the piano and it has the ring of authenticity about it.
I'll try it out tomorrow with the pedals.
Thanks, maggie.

Yes, a good idea.

I tend to go for a big long unison G, good pause, and then launch.

The arrangement by Gordon Jacob has the best known introduction. It is available from the usual sources, but was published in the red book of the 1953 Coronation Music at Westminster Abbey.

The Benjamin Britten arrangment of the national anthem is rather fun!

Barry Williams

Bit of a tangent here but... I'm amazed at how few Churches seem to acknowledge Remembrance Sunday at all. I remember hunting high and low last year for a service (it tends to be one of my 3 Sundays per year that I make an extra effort to get to Church) without much success. I'm away this weekend, but again, none of my local Churches seem to do a special service. Is it now unusual to do one?

Wow...that would fox 'em - I rather like it but as you say, not for Remembrance!

Start the play-over four bars from the end.

Play the tune of the first two of those bars in octaves, then use harmony for the last two bars. I find this very effective and hope it helps.

Theo.

I didn't think so - but maybe it depends on locality. We are doing Fauré's requiem (liturgically, so I guess bits of it rather than the complete thing).

My OH who is attached to a different church has put together a service specially for this coming Sunday, with carefully chosen readings, prayers, etc plus the Last Post.

I do something like this as well.

Dotted crotchet unison D, then these three chords in quavers (from bottom up):
C/D; B/D/E; A/C/D/F#

Good solution. I once used to frequent a place where something very similar was done. The organist would always play an short one-bar introduction on the pedals alone, thus:

Dotted-quaver D, semiquaver E, quavers D C B A

However it always sounded a bit empty and whenever the assistant organist played it he preferred to add chords over the last three notes - exactly the ones Stephen describes (but filled out a bit). It sounded far better!

I think Stephen's is the one I shall go for, having tried it out this morning - it is more or less the same as maggie's but with harmony notes above it.

I also tried Theo's suggestion which is good and will be kept up my sleeve for other occasions.

Thanks to all.

I just play the end of the tune from "long to reign over us" to the end as an intro.

Well, that sets the pitch, but isn't it even better to give them something that sets the time as well?

No, I disagree, it doesn't really need it. If there's one hymn tune we should all agree on the speed, its this one. Having said that, I was most taken aback this morning when the organist (not me on this occasion), played it in the key of F! He did, therefore, just give us a good old 'tutti' unison F, and we all followed fairly obediently!

I think this is the best option - the simplest one. People know what's coming, and the choir can bounce straight in to help lead the way.

Edit - P.S. I did wonder what on earth this thread was going to be about when I saw the title...

Can I say though what a rare pleasure it was to play the National Anthem yesterday. I got quite "into it" - especially in the second verse...

You mean you sing the National Anthem accompanied and indoors?

Our Remembrance service finishes at the war memorial outside, with the National Anthem unaccompanied - the organist gives us a start note from a pitch pipe and away we go.

confutatis - it gets better still by the third verse ("Confound their knavish tricks, frustrate their politics..." )

We currently only do one verse, but I do miss the place where we did all three. Gave the opportunity (rather selfishly) to really go OTT on the last verse. I'm aware I probably offended lots of Guardian readers in the congregation, but hey ho!

I was fired up to do all three after checking first with the vicar and was then chopped off at the knees (and stopped in my pre service improv) and told to do just one.
We still managed to be late for the 2 minute silence - perhaps 5 hymns was just too much.

Ours was about 5 minutes late for the 2 minutes silence, as we mark it by ringing rounds on the bells (go down the scale twice) then stop, after two minutes do it again (as they are not in the church, the people are at the memorial) Its quite a nice way I think, as the bells are half muffled meaning every other time it sounds, it is very quiet, like an echo.
Just out of interest, how do other churches mark the silence? Or does the incumbent just say when its up?

Isn't it the case that the striking of the hour should indicate the end of the 2 minutes, or have I got that wrong?
If so it requires very deft choreography and a stopwatch.
We were seriously late whichever way you count it. And wet by the end.

The silence is usually signalled by playing the Last Post. The end of the silence is signalled by playing the Reveille (I think). With perfect chorograpy the silence starts as, or just before the church clock strikes 11 O'clock, but that is currently running five minutes slow.

SB

PS: I'm pleased to learn I am not the only one who enjoys annoying Grauniad readers.

Ah. We don't have a church clock.

And we don't have a bugler.

Excellent, comrades! Still, won't be long before we'll have at least five years of doing it. I've suffered long enough for 12.

Which raises another interesting question: How do we encourage new/young people to play the Bugle (or whatever) for Remembrance Day events?

We have a choir member who for years played the Last Post and Reveille on his Cornet, but he says he 'no longer has the puff', and so recorded himself onto tape at least five or six years ago.

We have a strong tradition of brass bands in the area, but nobody has been willing to play. SBJ2 plays the cornet, and is a member of a school band. We and other parents have broached this subject with the brass teachers, thinking that it would be a great way of involving youngsters with Remembrance Day, but they seem to want to distance themselves from the whole subject (church/war/state, etc).

Once again we also have the question of 'standards' (i.e. would an 11 year old G4 brass player do justice to such an important event?); but surely it has to be better than listening to a crackly recording on a portable cassette player?

SB

I do think that in this instance it would be better just to invest in a decent cassette player! This is not an occasion on which we want everyone to be cringing. It's a moment of reverence and respect. Either that or somebody should seek out a decent musician well in advance, book him and pay him!

We have one of the world's best brass bands on our doorstep, but nobody will play for Remembrance Day, even for money. Maybe 11 O'clock is too early in the morning for them.

Oddly enough, the Town Council has no problems finding a Piper.

SB

I thought a Grauniad-reading churchgoer was an oxymoron.

Pity a brass player cannot be engaged for just one service a year - are they afraid of making a commitment or just worried they might do it wrong in front of a lot of people? Good thing the rest of us don't have such hang-ups.

We are so blessed - in the midst of our choir is a bass who is a grade 8 brass player, so our Last Post and Reveille is superb, both at the morning service and at Evensong.

I used to run to the loo before every service...

I understand perfectly. I've just stopped getting too angst-ridden if I make a horlicks of it; you've got to come out of the loo sometimes....
Anyone who can do it better is more than welcome to take over.

I agree. In a way it's self-centred to be so hung up about it, and it comes more from not wanting to make a fool of one's self than from a genuine fear of bogging up the service. It's good to get the first bog-up over with and realise that if things are usually good, people will forgive, nobody will remember, and the sun doesn't fall out of the sky.

You have a loo....?

SB

in the circumstances one would hope so ...

We don't!

There was a Rector's Commode, which needed endless faculties and permissions to dispose of.

English Heretics Heritage objected to adding 20th century 'conveniences'.

Digging up the graveyard to install drainage is fraught with problems, as an archaeologist has to be present, and any human remains have to be properly re-buried. All this cost another church in our parish about £1,000 per skeleton – and there were about 30 of them!

Thankfully the local pub landlord is very understanding, there are some large trees near to the church, and most people live within walking distance.

The good news is that more than £50,000 of the £75,000 needed has already been raised, so hopefully by this time next year we should have all mod cons.

In the meantime the only answer is to practice well, and not to drink too much coffee before the service.

Perhaps Handel's Water Music will be in order for the loo dedication service?

SB

We had this problem when they installed a kitchen and loo in our 650 yr old building - don't know why EH didn't oppose it - perhaps we are not sufficiently historically significant.
It made organ practice more tense than usual with all the holes in the ground before they re- laid the floor; couldn't be doing with anyone getting up to stretch their legs after 300 years at rest.
I wasn't sure I approved of having a loo in the building but I'm glad of it now.

Isn't it surprising how these threads develop? We begun this with the national anthem and now we're onto skeleton re burial and toilet dedication.

My son (10 years old, currently working for Grade 3 on trumpet) played the Last Post at our Remembrance Day service on Sunday, and it was fine. However, I did transpose it down from C into A for him, since whilst he can manage a top E comfortably, top G is a bit dodgy still . It was something of a first for our church, since previously we have had neither live nor recorded playing, but all comments received were very favourable indeed.

(As an aside, I was exceedingly nervous about it all beforehand, and I stood at his shoulder throughout with the music (printed small) held discreetly to one side, just in case he lost where he was! But he rose to the occasion and played it really well, and actually much better than he had ever done when practising...)

For what it's worth, I think most congregations would prefer to have the live rendition rather than a recording; and if it is a child / young person playing, in my experience they will be given a bit more latitude over minor slip-ups than an adult would. So I would encourage you to give SBJ2 a try at it next year!

Yes; that thought did occur to me.

The thread was of course titled 'The Queen' and how to get her going, and we have ended up discussing 'Thrones' of a completely different kind.

SB

haha - yes , similar thought occurred.

We don't!

sounds much like the church where I grew up. However my 'in the circumstances ' was referring to the situation of 'running to the loo' which Dulciana described.

Ahh; maybe this is why organsts are always encouraged to keep their legs together when playing.

............ I thought it had something to do with correct use of the pedalboard, but perhaps I was wrong?

SB

Well she has to use one too ! Then she has got 'going'

That is excellent news. I can understand the reluctance to let a youngster play for such a sombre event, but if they are up to it then I see no reason to stand in their way.

Given the technical difficulties of playing a brass instrument on a cold day even experienced and professional musicians could be excused a slip or two.

I think if a young person is genuine and does their best they should be applauded. I for one would far rather hear live music with a few mistakes than listen to a perfect recording.

SB