I've fallen in love with Berio's Folk Songs (in particular Black is the Colour and I Wonder as I Wander) and I'd love to perform them one day but getting together an ensemble for this might be quite tricky and I'd like to find some nice arrangements of folk songs just for voice and piano. The only ones I really know are the Britten ones but I just wondered if anyone knows any others that are particularly good.

x Bass Clef

the best arrangements of trad songs are those with no accompaniment ;-)

Ah the Berio folksongs When I played viola a bit I always thought it would be nice to get good enough to play in those. Fat chance. I have the classic recording of Cathy Berberian. Amazing. Berio somehow manages to maintain the folk idiom of these pieces - in a way British composers seem unable to do.

As a bit of a folkie I tend to lean towards River's comment. I'm afraid I tend to consider "serious" arrangements of folk songs as a bit of a joke. Even Britten, whose music I revere. Oh Waly Waly indeed.

Ok, fair enough, I thought people might say that! I have sung folk songs unaccompanied before and I must agree that this is the best way. I'm just worried about going hideously out of tune! I mean, I think I stay in tune mostly and when I listen back to recordings there aren't any obvious points where I'm out of tune but by the end of an unaccompanied piece I almost invariably end up a semitone (or a bit more!) sharp. Aaah well, something to work on I guess.

Just out of interest, if you were putting on a recital and had pieces for voice and piano and also some unaccompanied folk songs in the programme too, would you put the folk songs at the start and then walk off and back on with your accompanist for the rest of the programme? Or would you sing them anywhere in the programme as long as it made sense and just have your accompanist sit there while you sing them?

unaccompanied traditional singing is not to everyone's taste... if this is for a performance, rather than an exam/audition/etc, it's probably a good idea to break it up rather than deliver the whole thing at once.

is this just hypothetical, or do you have something planned? i'd be interested to see your programme...

When I've sung unaccompanied material in a recital, I've given the accompanist the choice to either sit and wait at the piano or to move to a chair on or offstage for that work and then come back afterwards. Different accompanists have taken different choices, and it's worked ok every time.

One thing to be careful of is the key of the song you use to follow your unaccompanied song. I made the mistake once of programming something unaccompanied in B minor followed by an accompanied song in F major - so it sounded like I'd gone hideously flat even though I was actually in tune. Fortunately I realised this during a rehearsal and fixed the programme order before the performance.

Thank you all for the advice so far! River, it is kind of hypothetical at this stage. I am going to do a recital in June which will be assessed and I would like to do an informal performance, maybe in a local church, in order to prepare for this. But I'm always thinking of things to sing and where they might fit into a recital programme, so I'm just thinking ahead really. Your suggestion about breaking up the folk songs with other items seems good, but I'm just worried about presenting a coherent programme - I usually find the easiest way to do this is to simply put the pieces in chronological order, which would probably mean all the folk songs at the start. I don't know... when I am closer to making serious plans for a recital I might post my programme on here.

x Bass Clef

I'd just like to say, along with the others, that accompanied versions of folk songs do tend to make me cringe a bit too - but not because they're accompanied, generally because they're being sung by someone who hasn't taken the time to study the idiom properly.

Folk songs are an oral tradition and therefore are almost impossible to write down correctly - the timing, ornamentation and phrasing are very particular : Good traditional singers vary the melody each time through, alter the phrasing and using complex melismatic ornaments to highlight concepts they consider important in the telling of the tale. When you take these things away, you end up with something that is just a very simple tune with a little story.

Sung well, the songs can be terribly moving, beautiful things - sung badly they can be boring and a bit cringe-worthy.

Just as we wouldn't necessarily appreciate a folk version of a Mozart air, I'd urge all singers considering singing folk to take the time to respect the tradition and learn how to do it properly - it's not as easy as it may appear - but you'll enjoy the songs more and a vocal challenge is always nice!

Allan

i don't necessarily disagree, but take Irish traditional song as an example - what you might call the 'sean-nos' style. could someone study and appreciate this style of singing, then listen to a song, and conclude that what it really needs is a piano accompaniment? i think that would indicate something was seriously wrong with either the singer or the listener!

now don't get me wrong, i've nothing against The Dubliners, or Show of Hands, or the next quasi-trad/'folk' group - the music's great, and it's done a lot to get people interested in traditional music; and for sure it's preferable to the latest classical/pop/whatever star who decides that they should do a token trad song for their next album. (i am looking at you, Mr. Lynott.) but at the end of the day, nothing can convey as much power and emotion as an unaccompanied song done properly.

I agree totally - Sean Nos is fabulous.

I often hear versions of Sean Nos songs sung by classical singers for 'a bit of fun' - they don't sound like the real thing at all.

I'm with you - to do it right, you really need to learn how to do it and then - in most cases, you may well realise that a piano will do nothing to help (in fact it might even ruin the unmetered feel of a good Sean Nos).

*wanders off singing An Robh thu aig a'chreg*

Thank you Allan for the advice. I do hope my folk singing isn'tof the cringe-worthy variety that you describe! I think I vary the melody, phrasing etc. quite a bit in different verses and I don't tend to aim for a gimmicky classical rendition. However, I'm still not quite sure if my interpretation is very idiomatic - what, in your opinion are the best ways of learning about this idiom? Are there any recordings that you would recommend or is it a case of just going to Ireland and spending time talking with old men with beards?

There is plenty to be learned in England too you know

If you want someone who really knows how to sing miserable English folk songs you couldn't really do much better than June Tabor. "Echo of Hooves" is a tremendous collection of traditional Borders ballads. Interestingly, they aren't unaccompanied and indeed some of the backing is quite modern sounding (piano even), but they are distinctly idiomatic.

Also see BBC Sessions on Youtube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpjgUy6oMw...feature=related and others. The classic "Hughie the Graeme" on this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH-AErD_W6Y...feature=related

I remember a few years ago seeing a young Jim Moray at the Brampton Festival when he exploded onto the folk scene. He created live backing tracks on stage using a small handheld sampler and then accompanied himself on electric piano. All very modern but again, very well considered. Have a listen to the album "Sweet England". Incidentally I recently discovered he studied classical composition at Birmingham Conservatoire.

Then of course there is the Waterson/Carthy phenomenon. Norma and the other Watersons and Martin Carthy have been the guardians of English folk for donkeys years now. If you are interested in those interminable 20 verse Child ballads of unremitting gloominess, Martin Carthy is your man. His daughter Eliza is a good singer very much in the style of the traditionalists. I'll also put in a plug for the lovely Kate Rusby - both for traditional songs and her self penned ones.
"I Courted a Sailor"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybRPZAqN7WA
"My Young Man" (but you'll ideally need a brass band) - and it turns me into a useless blubbering wreck every time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AjblYI9KEY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkA745lANAY

I'd agree on the recommendation for Kate Rusby - lovely stuff.

For unaccompanied traditional stuff - particularly Sean Nos, there are a few key recordings you could listen to:

Look out for Roisin Elsafty and Treasa Ni Cheannabain for some lovely versions of stuff. Joe Heany is another reference in this field. You'll hear the typical Sean Nos ornamentation (usually very fast runs and turns, some quarter tone pitch bends, some glottal attacks in mid word etc), great phrasing and overall brilliant story telling.

For Scottish stuff Lizzie Higgins is good for English Language suff, or Rachel Walker for Gaidhlig. Julie Fowlis isn't bad either.

Just listen to as much stuff as you can and try to see what they're doing with it - even if you intend to sing accompanied, learn from the unaccompanied stuff first.

Enjoy! Would love to hear the results if you fancy recording yourself!