I've just been to a really interesting presentation on dyslexia, how it manifests itself, and how to develop strategies to help pupils cope. Since half my family suffer it was like meeting a very old and familiar friend with extra information to digest too!

All I've got to do now is tidy up my notes and make sure I make sense of what I need to do. No problems there then.

edit I'm going to structure my notes, and the post accordingly, and relatively briefly, so will be back after a short interlude - anyone remember the potter's wheel from the good old grainy days of TV?

Hi, posting on another thread, has made me remember about this one I started fully intending to come back to quite quickly.

There is rather more to this subject than I know about, let alone can post about in short spurt, so please be patient. Here goes:-

Dyslexics may not know that are battling a condition, and the same applies to their teachers and carers. They are used to failing, so when asked if they understand frequently indicate that they do in order to avoid negative comments from teachers and other pupils.

If they are reading age and cannot read out loud a couple of simple sentences, then be wary. If they are not scared of you of the surroundings (all of which are possible) then consider a learning difficulty, or materials which currently do not match their ability.

If they are very young, it maybe difficult to be certain just curious about an unusual learning pattern. Other learning difficulties may or may not be present to confuse the issue.

IQ and learning difficulties do not correlate one with the other, unless a medical condition is also present, and not even then.

Keep it simple. Teach the notes in alphabetical order. If they already know their alphabet it will help them, and if they are still learning it, then the little chunk that they learn for music must support and not interfere with the rest of the alphabet. Explain that musicians only need the first seven letters as notes. If there were more notes, we'd need more letters.

Be prepared to repeat as necessary, patiently, and rephrase as necessary. Make it plain it is not because the pupil is stupid, you just haven't found the right words to make it clear.

Use humour wherever possible, especially do make mistakes in your own playing, if you feel confident to do so. Make a joke, play the correct version, and hey presto, they are not so silly when things do not quite go according to plan.

Demonstrate rather than explain a point.

Take frequent breaks to introduce either a new idea in a familiar way or an old idea in a familiar way to reinforce. Ask the pupil how they would explain something that they have mastered to another person (pretend that you are someone who knows nothing).

When the pupil has successfully learned something, move onto something easier or well known to finish off a lesson with, always end a high point if possible, never push beyond their boundaries for one lesson to stretch them. Just sitting in for a lesson and concentrating hard is more than good enough, learning something new is excellent, remembering the previous lessons is excellent too.

Always open to opinions from others!!!!!

The fear of failure thing is something I well recognise from the person I know who has it. They have only a very mild degree, and when first diagnosed, this had been something of a shock: they'd actually got an above average reading ability but that ability lagged so far behind their other capacity that the diagnosis still holds. All the other hallmarks were present, such as organisatory difficulty, mild left-right confusion, appalling handwriting, great difficulty in reading music, but general intelligence had masked the problem and still this individual finds that there are those who will not accept the diagnosis because they think it is associated with intellectual difficulties too. The lack of insight and acceptance has led to poor self-esteem and an unwillingness to attempt things seen as too difficult.

I do like the idea of finding the right way to explain things - one of my grouses with the education system as it stands is that teachers have been given all this theory about different learning styles - visual, auditory, kinæsthetic etc...all something which makes sense - and they share it with the kids, who all spend time finding out what sort of "smart" (sorry about that word, but I mean clever) they are....and then ignore it completely, continuing to teach in the same way, lines of desks or tables, blackboard or whiteboard, write it down, take notes, write an essay etc. If the education system genuinely wants to reform itself and produce a real difference in achievement instead of apparent statistical ones, then they are going to have to look at this one again, I think - and if they were to do so (yeees, I know it means funding etc, but I could think of a few places our pennies are going which would be better diverted to this one)then they might well find that the figures for dropping out of education might begin to look less grim.

OOOOOOHHHHH Anacrusis, you've pushed my buttons as far as the educational establishment is concerned. All stats, stats above real results and teacher worked to a frazzle to please the bean counters.

While I don't doubt dyslexia is a genuine condition, my experience as a teacher shows there is such an array of reading difficulties in pupils that there must be a fine line between a clinically diagnosed condition and people who simply are not as good at reading as others (age, laziness, many possibilities). What I am saying is we have to know how to deal with such difficulties whatever causes them, and it's not only dyslexics (though these are more likely). I once had someone approach me for lessons with mild dyslexia, and she could read OK but her problem was the aural tests remembering what to sing back. How many have this problem? Fortunately I have strategies to help with this, like with note reading etc.

I sometimes wonder if I am a bit dyslexic as I seem to do everything except poor spelling (eg reversing things) which is the most recognised symptom. At school I was always slowest to do written tasks, albeit properly, simply as I took forever to process things, and primary school especially was a waste of time as I couldn't keep up. I needed extra time in high school exams for the same reason. I can't take notes in lectures even now as I can't react and write fast enough. And I have a shocking short term memory. All this without actually being dyslexic.

I am completely with anacrusis on the state of teaching, though I sympathise with teachers to an extent of having a class of 30 pupils which would mean 30 teaching methods needed. Not realistic.

Maybe not thirty methods - but four or five, certainly - and yes, I did say that funding would be needed. And research too, I reckon. For instance, the person I know who is dyslexic has an excellent auditory memory, and used to be far better at school if they didn't write anything down but sat and listened instead - teachers who made them write things down invariably found that there were dreadful notes, and that the pupil had forgotten everything anyway. A dictaphone might have solved the problem - because the issue of not having notes is how to revise afterwards. Organistatory difficulties do need addressing: at the moment there are maybe two stock answers - do a list or do a mindmap, both of which require writing, and I'd like to see some investment in looking at ways to help with such problems. Our local schools tend to rely so heavily on standard approaches to learning that they can't see how on earth someone could fail with the methods they use - but even use of a keyboard and screen does not totally get round dyslexia and its problems.

The term dyslexia is really a bit of a misnomer - it is so much more than simply a difficulty with reading, covering all those other areas too, like organisation, map reading, visual scanning difficulties etc. I was intrigued to read some time ago that one theory of managing it included work on balance and co-ordination too - again not something the individual I came across could have benefited from overmuch, since they had danced and played drums with ease.

Last week in my dyslexic pupil's lesson I was talking about the melodic line, mainly from a musical point of view, but also from a literal point of view - the notes going up and down and how to notice by how much, and made a comment about 'joining the dots'. Today she turned up for her lesson, opened her book, and she had joined the dots!! She'd drawn a thick pencil line through all her notes and created a wavy line..and guess what...played it perfectly, both musically and technically correct..for the first time in a year of learning the piano.
I'm so proud of her and more importantly she's proud of herself too.

Sorry if that's hijacked the thread a bit, just wanted to share a dyslexic success day.x

Sorry, don't want to appear abrupt, but dyslexia definitely exists. Like all SEN types it expresses itself in many forms. And lazy some people maybe, and yes they may have a reading problem, but don't confuse the two!!

Teachers face lots of different issues when teaching, and SENCos face even worse ones trying to persuade other teachers, parents and the pupils themelves that SEN problems can be addressed, with hardwork. I know, my father did, my husband did, and both my daughters did as well, to much higher levels - degree level - than many of their teachers ever thought they had a right to achieve. And yes I had to sit through an awards ceremony where my daugher was mentioned by name as one of the ones who had achieved more than she should have done. Meant as a compliment, but what a backhanded one!

And besides this is not meant to be a definitive guide to all things SEN, more a summary of a presentation I attended which was specifically about dyslexia, just touching on other SEN issues which are allied to it.

An interesting thread! In my class of 29, I have several children with a whole range of reading/processing/dyslexia-type difficulties, including:
* one who has to have exercise books filled with yellow paper, a yellow overlay for reading, classroom words printed/written on yellow, and interactive boards backgrounds set to yellow
* two who have a green overlay
* one who still cannot process basic sounds and represent them accurately and quickly
* one who is a fantastic writer but has no memory for spelling patterns whatever
* a good speller but with no imagination at all

... and others representing everything in between! It's so hard to accommodate the way everyone learns into one's teaching. In fact, it's practically impossible to do everything. Specialist teachers from outside can, theoretically, provide some support, although this depends on school and LA budgets too (I raised a serious concern about one child in September 2008 and I have *still* not had specialist help - talk about a system failing the children!).

I wonder if the situation would be similar if we started teaching reading and writing later on...? I know it's also an organisational and 'mental filing' issue - perhaps starting later would allow children to develop more space for the mental files...? Hmm...

Now you are talking Benjamina! Personally I can't help thinking that delaying reading until 7 would be a good idea. And I recognise a lot of what you are talking about from other teachers in state schools.

Sometime I can't help wondering if children weren't told that they were failures sometimes as young as 3, that they would stand a better chance.

My children are both dyslexic and have no problems with reading. My son has a reading age many years above his chronological age. In her most recent test my daughter scored 113 for reading, where 100 would be her age level and 81 for writing so she is about 18 months ahead with reading and 4 years behind with writing. A big worry.

How did you manage to get diagnoses for them? The person I'm talking about ended up dropping out of school at fifteen, disillusioned and having been told they were stupid and/or lazy. They are now thriving in college instead, where the environment seems less rigid and more respectful of kids as individuals.

Delaying reading is a false route. It causes more problems than it solves. In France children under the age of six are not allowed to learn to read. They are stuck in a class known as "Maternelle" which is sub divided
into Toute Petite Section, Petite Section, Moyenne Section and Grande Section. I have taught this age range both here and in England. I have seen children ready and thirsting to read at the age of three and others not ready at rising seven. Children should take part in pre-reading activities until they have all the pre-reading skills in place and then, as and when they are ready they should be taught to read. Otherwise the ones who want to read become bored and turn off learning and those who are not ready get labelled as failures.

Here they are all judged to be ready to read at six, not before, not after and they had better learn to read in the year of their 6th birthday or heaven help them. It does not, of course work. Literacy levels are falling.
And as for dyslexic children getting any help - well they mustn't be diagnaosed as dyslexic because it's a label.

I support all that anacrusis says about educational systems forcing teachers to have standard approaches.
It might cost a bit more to have varied and effective teaching but it would save billions in terms of preventing
drop out, failure, and compensatory activites such as drugs and juvenile delinquency. Most of our kids just need a bit of skilled and informed individual attention. A lot of teachers end up with nervous breakdowns trying to provide it. And worst of all a lot of politicians get fat on telling us how to do our job! Sorry - rant over!

This is also true. However, I did finally manage to have my daughter diagnosed as dyslexic last year and this year some of the teachers are making an effort to take it into account.

My daughter doesn't have problems understanding what she reads but she has problems putting syllables in the right order both when she is writing and when she is speaking, so if she reads out loud she is often very hard to understand. In music she doesn't have a problem reading notes but she does get confused with what I call mirror image rhythms ( eg. quaver + two semi quavers followed by two semi-quavers + quaver). She is slow at learning new skills but once she has mastered something she never forgets it.

My son was slow to read and wouldn't produce much written work in class but was incredibly articulate so we all thought he was being a "typical boy". For what it is worth I was probably exactly the same as him. When he was nearly 3 his language skills became apparent and then at 8 his reading just took off but his writing continued to lag behind. It was only when he got to secondary school, which tests every Year 7 for reading age and writing that the five year gap between the two was registered and the school asked my permission to test him for dyslexia. I was really surprised and even more surprised by the results.
As soon as we got his diagnosis I raised the question of my daughter whom I have always thought had a serious problem. The SEN co-ordinator at the school was/is wonderful and my daughter was tested for language problems and dyslexia. Both assessments showed a serious learning disability.
She probably isn't dyslexic. She has a Significant Language Disorder which includes dyslexia. No primary school teacher would ever listen to me when I talked to them about her problems and I had no idea that someone could have a problem like this with language. I thought she might have autism at one point, she doesn't. It is pretty hard to know what is going on when you have a child who struggles, and fails, to communicate. It was obvious to me that when you have a child aged 7 who can make a cup of tea but can't name the kettle never mind tell anyone how to make a cup of tea that something strange is going on but no one would listen.
Apparently secondary school is often the point at which people get a diagnosis.
There is a simple piece of software which can be used to give a first screen for dyslexia. My daughter failed this test in style scoring zero on one test and very highly on others. That is typical of dyslexia. Anyone worrying about it should be able to get that test done fairly easily.
Dora

One of the main problems with our education system is that it tries to shoehorn everyone into the same-shaped hole...

I think what it boils down to is children have problems learning of one sort or another, either there is an underlying educational problem, or medical, or social.

It all depends on what happens next. I think part of the problem in this country, I can't really comment about France, but I take Aquarelle's points, is that a lot of the directives from the gov dept responsible is based on civil servants, quangos and uncle tom cobbly and all. Often these directive are not based on any sort of research, it just boils down to perceived wisdom and experience. Now some of what is directed is good, but a heck of a lot of it isn't.

I would not recommend stopping children from learning to read at any age! In fact I read to mine from 6 months old, and before that talked to them and sang nursery rhymes. Again I'm not saying that is the only way to go, just how I did it.

If I'd listened to the experts, and some of those include teachers, I'd I've encourage my daughters to leave school at 16 since they were clearly not academic enough at an early enough age for the establishment. And my husband would never have gone to uni either, let alone my father!!

I found Dora's first post difficult to understand, and from the second, her children don't have dyslexia anyway, but something else.

When I started this thread, all I was trying to do was pass on some info about how to deal with youngsters who struggle to read music, which as a piano teacher is significant to me. If it makes other people feel better, then call it dysmusicreading!

But as we all know the dyses tend to be like buses and come in groups. It was one presentation only that I attended and I'm also aware that some teachers out there who work in private practice don't always get the chance to attend training like that and was simply trying to pass it on, and was hoping that one or two other teachers might make a few positive suggestions too. Some have, others seem to think I'm suggesting that children are not allowed to read until a prescribed age which is not what I said at all.

Feeling a little bruised folks!

I am interested in any information or practical techniques you have, Jane. I have 3 dyslexic pupils at the moment, 2 younger boys and 1 older girl and I have trawled the Internet and not found anything particularly music orientated. All 3 of these pupils are very keen and I would like to be able to help them better for their particular needs.

OK, without breaching their confidentiality, can you give me an outline of the problems which the pupils have which you have become aware of or have been told about? If I have direct experience I'll tell you, and if it comes from the training session, I'll tell you that too.

The brief outline I described in summary form holds true for most learners, and not just SEN pupils, but that is by the by. One of the things I have come up against, is advising teachers to abandon methods which work for them. Well, I can make a few suggestions which may or may not work better, only time will tell there, but it worth trying.

Over to you Miffy!

Thanks Jane!
Ok, Girl - 12, been learning piano a year and only got about 1/2 way through beginner book. Has problems both with Reading the notes and co-ordination. Is bright, at a grammar school, only just being 'diagnosed' with dyslexia for some reason, and seems to not be getting much help beyond initial diagnosis. She has a lovely touch developing on the piano though, the few notes she can play, and seems to have a very musical mind and a great love of piano music. Very frustrated with herself but wants to really have a go. I desperately want to do the right thing by her.

Boy - 11, been learning violin 5yrs, piano 3yrs both with me. Took gd5 violin last year and doing gd3 piano this term. Initially did well, had yellow glasses for a while but has co-ordination problems, note-reading problems and aural tests are, um, interesting! His mum says the rhythm and singing memory is affected like writing, Reading etc.

Boy - 8, done gd 2 piano and violin a year or so back. His note-Reading is all over the place, some days he has no idea! Aural also very affected, he'll start singing then it drifts off all over the place, up, down, and he doesn't even realise it's happening! He is in the process of being tested, but again, not much evidence of any follow up help.

As I said, all 3 are really keen, practice every day and enjoy their lessons, but I would really like to help in a more 'tailored to the problem' kind of way.

Thankyou for taking the time to ask, and any insight you can offer.

Sorry, forgot to say, both boys seem to have movement disorders too, arms and legs everywhere, no control (dangerous as violinists!), and the girl says she's very clumsy but seen no evidence of this in lessons.

I totally agree.

What I would like to ask in all this is, what are the parents doing? I've always taken the view that the school is there to help us educate our kids. Obviously some leave the school to do absolutely everything, but I think that's sad.

My parents and my grandmother had got me reading by the time I went to school. I still dimly remember practising squiggles (letters) long before I started school. Our children were starting to read and I made sure they were reading as soon as possible.

Steve

My own experience of trying to help kids learn things is that school tends to do things its way, and not take too kindly to alternatives. My kids were interested in learning letters before starting school, and of course we read to them too, but then the method of reading taught in school was different from the one we had used, and school was not that keen on alternative methods. This was brought into the starkest relief when it came to maths, where only one method was ever considered acceptable, and any attempt to show other approaches would be knocked back with a wail of, "but they don't want it to be done that way!" This flies in the face of the concept of differing learning styles, and also goes against the idea of adjusting explanations to suit these - is it any wonder then that parents hesitate to "interfere"? Sure, school educators have training, parents don't, but still kids learn most of all from their parents and siblings, not from schools. Schools' response to this seems to have been to educate parents in their chosen methods - that works to some extent, but when these approaches don't work, it seems a shame that any attempt on the part of parents to try alternatives gets such short shrift.

I did all the things to get my children reading that you are talking about. We read all the time. Whenever they drew a picture I offered to show them how to write their names. We sang every nursery rhyme I knew, and I knew a lot.
I talked all the time to my children.
They were not ready. I finally was able to teach my daughter to read at 8. Even then words like with, where, what and when looked the same to her as did there, they, this and that and all two letter words were indistinguishable. Yet somehow she passed her Grade 5 Theory at just 11 years old. At 12 she is in the top sets in a good school for Maths and Science and preparing for a Grade 7 music exam but she struggles to write more than 5 or 6 lines. Parents' Evening last year was really boring. Every teacher raved about her. Her hard work, her committment, her enthusiasm.

In our case it isn't an IQ issue it is a major brain wiring problem. I think of it as a physical problem in that it is something that is just there and you have to find ways of dealing with it.
You wouldn't accuse parents of a deaf child of poor parenting because their child's speech was limited.

Interestingly there are more and more children being identified with problems like my daughters and it is being suggested that such children are not being talked to at home. I offer my son as my chief witness that I talked to my children. His working vocabulary is vast.
While my daughter probably has a single problem which is a language disorder it does manifest itself as dyslexia in terms of writing and spelling, if you can call what she does spelling.

I agree with you that it is a parent's responsibility to do the best for their children and that includes having a very substantial input into their education. You can't necessarily determine that input by looking at what a child can do.
Dora

Children are often all legs and arms at this stage. They might be worse than normal, but try and work out exercises which require extensive movement, then reign the movements in and again smaller movements smaller movements each time. This can be done with instruments and you playing very fast, very slow, high pitched low pitched to give them different cues.

Hope the above can help! There are only suggestions and may not be appropriate, and you already may have tried them! If this is the case, let me know and I'll see if I can come up with other ideas,.

I knew you'd come up with something sensible Anacrusis! But intelligent parents usually have intelligent kids, who are immersed in learning from the beginning.

Steven, the parents are often at a complete loss, or are doing their best and are on very familiar territory, because these things are hereditary. Yes there are the school phobic people, who generally misbehave, but look a little closer, and a hidden SEN problem can sometimes be founds. The days of taking a walking stick to those who do not learn fast enough are long gone

Although I am not a music teacher I would thoroughly recommend Sheila Oglethorpe's book "Instrumental Music for Dyslexics." Since dyslexia has so many different variants, not all of this is relevant to all children but I found parts of it very insightful for my own daughter. It also has lots of ideas of practical ideas for lessons.

As Jane said, bright children seemed to be diagonsed relatively late and I think the same thing is true of well behaved children. My daughter's teachers couldn't see why I was making a fuss because she was/is such a delight to have in the classroom. She never chats to her neighbours, always has all her things and will sit quietly in a corner doing nothing when she doesn't understand Disruptive children get diagonsed much quicker because the teachers want something done about them.

One thing which Jane hasn't mentioned, which Sheila Oglethorpe does, and which I think is extremely frustrating for teachers, is inconsistency. My daughter can do something and then five minutes later (or the next lesson) it is as if she has no idea what she is supposed to be doing and seems to have totally forgotten what the teacher has just told her. You really do need to be incredibly patient and be prepared to repeat the same thing lots of times. As Jane said, dyslexics are so used to failing that they will say they have understood even when they haven't, which does make it very hard to know where you stand.

Also, people tend to think of dyslexia as a reading/spelling problem but it is also an oral problem. Some children (like my daughter) find it hard to understand what is said to them if anything else is going on at the same time. For example, she finds it very hard to watch the teacher demonstrate AND listen to his explanations at the same time. For children like her it is better to say what you are going to do, demonstrate and then remind the child of what you have just done.

This is turning into a fascinating thread.

Yes, I have encountered this reaction. However, my own way of dealing with it (I am a bit of an actor ) is to say "Sshh! Don't tell your teacher this, but I'll show you another way of doing it. But promise you won't tell anyone!!"

Teaching theories follow fashion like everything else.

My Dad showed me how to do long division where the teacher had failed miserably - obviously following some new fangled method written by some educational 'expert' with no actual experience of children.

I still remember being completely lost in A-level chemistry and didn't understand how to do some calculations. That night, I blew the dust off my textbook and started to read the relevant chapters. It was explained in a different way and I understood everything!

Years after giving up Maths because I thought I was too thick, I learnt the principles of differentiation and integration from a nurse in a physiotherapy swimming pool in London Hospital. It was so clear!

So, keep teaching your kids!

Steve

But if you don't have a CRB check, turn yourself in immediately!

I find the point about inconsistency very interesting because this term I have come across it with two pupils, a boy aged 10 and a girl aged 11. Both seem to have completely forgotten all they ever knew about reading music anf both seem unable to remember something at the bottom of the page they have seen and worked at, say at the top. It doesn't appear to be an eye sight problem and both children are becoming very frustrated. In the case of the girl I think there may be an underlying problem of stress and the boy has had a lot of time off school with chest infections. Both have supportive parents. I am really going to have to put my thinking cap on to find solutions and get them motivated. I would be grateful for any ideas if anyone else has come up against this problem.

yes, indeed...I've tried that sort of tack, but the kids tended to be terribly anxious about it, especially as in secondary they are asked to show their working...

I don't have CRB. Will GMC do? I do wear glasses, but I don't have a beard...and I complete my annual appraisal as required...

Now Now you two, you are starting to get very very silly! This is meant to be a serious discussion about dyslexia and you two will insist on silly playground jokes

Thanks to the posters above who have raised the point about inconsistency.

Imagine you have filled a tray full of marbles, in a set pattern, you walk away, and someone nudges the tray, some are displaced completely, others are simply switched around. Now can you remember how to put them all back correctly? And if it is a couple of days since you last say the 'correct' arrangement. Short term memory is often not well developed for dyslexics. Being physically tired, emotionally drained, in fact all the usual things which effect everyone's memory are doubly effected by dyslexia. Be patient, be patient be patient.

Someone has started another thread about dyslexia, and reminded me about flashcards. These are brilliant, do use them.

But a word of caution, keep the pages you teach from (tutor books-theory books) clear and uncluttered, avoid excess pencil marks, use mind maps, colour is effective, but only if a child or the carers are not colour blind.

I'll post more infor about mind maps, and flashcards, including some good ones I use later, but my hubby is oinking pitifully with swine flu at the moments, and I need to stop tapping away at the computer!

Ummmmm Dora, that sounds like my son who does not have dyslexia but has dyspraxia.... at 11 he had reading age of 15 but even now at 13.... cannot write properly- he uses a laptop and still doesn't puntuate even though he knows how.......

Mind mapping is a technique I'm beginning to think I need to know more about - I'm a list-maker, and like bullet points, but have the sort of mind which copes well with organising information before putting it down - and organisation being one of those facets dyslexics have difficulty with, can quite see that my approach wouldn't be that useful to them....

However, my big grouse with the maps is that I can't see how they help to organise the process of learning or generating a coherent essay, for instance. Again, our local schools paid lip-service to the concept, but really didn't follow them through - do a map they'd say, but not, now this is how we extract the information on them and turn them into a piece of work. I'm sure a big part of their use depends on knowing which ideas branch off which, again a concept which may seem obvious to those with no difficulties in organising their thoughts from the outset, but one which may need to be taught to those who do have problems. That feels like back to square one to me...I've seen tasks be issued to a child of seven, involving collation of information about a country, and its presentation as a project, something I was not equipped to do until nearer to ten or eleven, causing total shut-down on the part of the kid - can't do it, am tired, don't know what to do next....a booklet had been provided with indications of what information to find and fill in, but even that was too much for the child to handle. In retrospect, should that have set up alarm bells that there was perhaps a problem, or would it be reasonable to assume that school had set an ambitious task?

This is turning into a fascinating thread.

indeed. I have a pupil who has always had difficulty reading music, and I've had suspicions for some time that she may be dyslexic. But the parents have never ever mentioned it, and when I once, quite early on, tentatively, wondered how the child gets on with reading at school, apparently all is fine, no problems.

The more I read, the more it rings bells. Poor short term memory. Untidy writing. Mixing R and L (although less so these days). Some lessons we have really struggled to move forward.

She has been with me now nearly 5 years, and despite difficulties we have made quite a lot of progress; she gained a high merit at grade 1 a year ago and although we sometimes have slow patches, we are moving on and most of the time she is very positive. Helped by the fact that she's a lovely girl and we get on well.

Hi Jane,
this is all very helpful, thanks. The 12yr old is the one I said, I think earlier in this thread, that joined all the dots together and it helped! I will definately try some improvisation with her, she talks alot about music in her lesson, how it makes her feel, and how she likes it to 'paint a picture' so I think it would appeal.
The boys are a different problem in that if you just looked at the standards they have acheived so far you would wonder what the problem is. The younger one says to me over and over again that he has a problem with his short term memory - almost like a mantra - so he's obviously been told that alot, whether as an explaination or an excuse I don't know, his parents are quite pushy and he is needed to be a high acheiver - in fact both boys are. I thought alot about general good/bad behaviour too, as with both boys they have no social skills, to put it politely!! Both are lovely though and very smiley in lessons. I will try your suggestions with the older boy and aural, I don't tend to let them look as I play, but will do more game-based singing with him that isn't neccessarily exam board related. The movement problems are quite evident, not just in my music room but just to see him walk down the street without crashing into things or swinging his bag into people would be a miracle!!

Thanks for the help and I will have a search for the book Kerioboe suggested too.
xx

Glad to be of service, and I too am going to hunt out the book suggested by Keriobe, (thanks Keriobe).

Now, the info about the boys is beginning to call to mind other problems. Having high expectations can be very positive for children. The issue about their achievements never being good enough is another. We all have come across the type of parent for whom a pass is not good enough, it should have been at least a merit and require a post mortem regarding the previous term's lessons and how the examiner clearly had it in for the child! Even if that is an exagerration, and the parents are simply encouraging the child, then issues of how the child perceives that encouragement also needs to be addressed. We all know of children who would really rather play football or swim but have instead had music lessons booked for them. We are all aware of the same youngsters, who a few years down the line wish they had not thrown away such a terrific opportunity. I pick some of them up as pupils when they are in the 30s, 40s and even 70s!

That apart, the slow learning can simply be a function of learning a difficult subject, music does not come easy to everyone, in one of the most difficult languages in the world. Other languages have their own problems regarding learning, but English can and does take the biscuit for weird and wonderful spellings. Now translate that to learning music and an instrument, because although the two are obviously very closely allied, we are still teaching combined subjects when we approach an instrument through the printed page. Think about English Language as a subject versus English Literature or History.

The boys may well be rebelling slightly, or they may just not be 'natural' musicians. But since a significant number of pupils will always fall into that category, think strategically! Again I'm sure a lot of this is common sense to many of the experienced teachers out there, and no one should think I'm trying to criticise, just help those, who like me have by necessity to teach in isolation!

Don't forget that teaching strategies for dyslexics can be wonderful for the ordinary pupil, child or adult.
Now as far as maps as a learning aid, they can never replace a structured approach when that is required. Mind Maps are probably best for revision which for dyslexics means a little every day. Also flash cards, which has come up on the parallel thread to this one. But more info on the maps later.

You can make a set yourself, keeping everything very simple, and uncluttered, answers on the back, that sort of thing. Use as a form of memory game on the floor, or just hold one up at a time, or any other form of game - perhaps 'hidden' around your teaching studio, anything to ring the changes and let a fidget move their legs! The ones I particularly like are currently hidden under a wobbly pile of piano books! Will have to state which ones when I'm fit enough for archaeology on the housework! Husband and self still exhange oinks rather than conversation at the moment.

Sorry, the post above from me was much too long and wordy, just what I was trying to avoid really!

Flashcards, these have already been mentioned on another thread, and I'm using the Bastien ones, which are brilliant. I finally intend following their clarity of style and presentation when making up my own. I have Finale Notepad which should help.

MIND MAPS

For anyone familiar with them, they are simple to design and use. However, as Anacrusis has so rightly pointed out, they have limited uses. For revision they are excellent. Again think presentation and keep everything clear and uncluttered. For example have a treble clef in the centre of a page. Use straight lines, squiggly ones, zigzag ones, dashes and dots, you know the drill(!) to link to other ideas, such as usually played with the right hand, usually from middle C and higher in pitch, used to indicate notes on the RHS of the keyboard, (for piano) and anything else which is relevant. Obviously, there are plenty of other options and ideas which need to be presented for revision too. Avoid colour if you are making a template to photocopy, but allow a pupil to add colour to their own copy. This also means that colour blind pupils and their carers are not disadvantaged.

The way they work, is help provide a visual clue to work on poor short term memory. The pupil looks at treble clef, and starts thinking 'what is that meant to tell me?'. They are meant to remember that there are say, 6 visually different lines leading from the clef to important info. And after a week of looking at the mind map described above, they may start to remember some of the points. Now, for experienced and gifted musicians it is almost laughably easy, but for new pupils who may or may not be dyslexic it is not so clear.

Now can someone please say something rude and pithy about all this, because it is becoming to sound a little to earnest and dull even for me!!

Well, this wll hopefully be pithy but not rude...

I've always felt mind maps should be made by the person using them. That way they can connect together the ideas that they link, and draw on pictures and colours that trigger particular associations for them. Obviously though, there may not be time in a music lesson for making an individual mind map .

Yes, you have a very good point, revision notes, maps or not, need to be drawn up by the person who wants to use them, but for dyslexics they need help drawing them up, but thanks Tamsin for making a valid point, which I think Anacrusis was hinting at.

EDIT

Mind maps can be very useful, but for revision purposes. When planning something detailed, whether it is an essay or even a holiday, carefully drawn up lists of points and things to remember is more helpful.

Now there is another can of worms, dyslexic and lists do not always go together very well!!

Thanks David, for the common sense approach! I would not argue against the clear fact that some children do just develop at different paces to others, and problems only really arise when they are measured against an educational or musical standard which others can achieve with apparent ease. In other words, some will learn a tutor book cover to cover in 3 months, and others 6 weeks, and others still need 1 year! It only really matters if it is turned into a problem.

However, and from working as a TA and other roles in one specific secondary school, there is no doubt in my mind that for some chidren, a more neurologically based issue. Apparently, someone who is recognised by psychologists or SENCos (special needs teachers) as dyslexic exhibit different brain activity when reading and writing whilst having their brain waves (?layperson writing here) monitored by medical equipment.

So I take David's point that a lot of children are developing at different speeds - apologies David if you meant something else entirely - but there is sound evidence that for some who struggle, there is a real physical brain difference. Again, this is not bad news, from personal experience, in my family, my father, my husband, my two children all exhibited varying degrees of dyslexia. My father managed to hide it more or less completely, my husband didn't and neither did my daughters. All of them are graduates in a variety of scientific and arts based subjects.

These things are not always picked up under the age of ten - this is why there is a common misperception that problems like dyslexia are associated with intellectual impairment - it is possible to use other abilities to compensate, but only to a degree, and it can and does happen that such compensation leaves a child gradually slipping back, unnoticed at first, and then presents with a huge problem all of a sudden at an age when it is very difficult to do that much about it.
"simply not good at" is exactly the damaging statement such kids get to hear - again and again, and it is utterly demoralising, leading to switching out and marked frustration. The changes in such children on learning that there is a recognisable problem which needs a different approach to circumvent, are remarkable - and after hearing for years that one is "not coping", "just not trying" and so on, to be accepted as different and be permitted to try other ways of learning can be most liberating.
You point out that you haven't come across SEN - it suggests that maybe not so very many vast numbers of kids get such diagnoses as you think. Given that the group of pupils a private music teacher will have is going to be self-selected, it could well be that you'd not be exposed to so much of it. Also, as I pointed out before - a bright dyslexic will compensate. I've seen a kid do stunningly well in music despite not being able to sightread, simply because they could memorise well enough, had enough technique to compensate, and the teacher was not even aware that there was a problem...

This is exactly what happened to my daughter who was only diagnosed shortly before her 12th birthday. She is bright and in primary school developed coping strategies of her own. We were aware of the difficulties she was experiencing and the excessive amount of time it took her to to do homework but her teachers just thought she was a bit "slow" at completing work and since her marks were satsifactory (ie around average) they couldn't see what we were worrying about. When she started secondary school the coping strategies she had developped no longer worked because it was a very different environment.

Thanks Anacrusis and David, you've put important points across much better that I could. Keriobe, I know first hand how watching a child struggle can be painful, and several of my friends have had youngsters with medical and 'dys or one kind or another' issues to deal with.

Now I don't want to get all mushy, but my own daughter did do much better than was ever expected of her, and so did my husband, and my father.

And I've also come across former SEN youngsters from the school I worked at, now in adulthood, holding down jobs, which no-one ever thought they would. But, then again, their teachers - a much maligned profession - also pulled out all the stops for them!

And I suppose that is why I'm so keen to raise awareness. As Anacrusis says, you never really know what a pupil might have to contend with, or when it will be recognised by teachers or other professionals. And with David's experience, he could probably field 'assorted dyses' during a lesson using several different teaching techniques.

A lot of good teaching practice applies not to simply to SEN pupils but to all abilities, including the average right through to the gifted, who of course as whether people like it or not, SEN but in a different way. How many teachers have to deal with bright but disaffected pupils in the classroom? I suppose on an individual basis, we are lucky to be able to tailor our lessons.