Do You Agree That, DipABRSM is more difficult (and thus more prestigious) than many conservatories' standard?

My sister who graduated from a piano faculty in a minor conservatory in the Netherlands said that as she told me to appreciate this DipABRSM. She said that after browsing the piano syllabus of course. She said that at least she didn't have to do sight reading, her weak spot, for her final recital.

Do you agree? I'm curious!

Given that a number of people achieve DipAB/ARCO (and occasionally LRSM/LTCL) before starting at conservatoires I'd say no.

I don't think you are comparing like for like. DipABRSM and other diplomas are awarded to a variety of candidates who study independently form the awarding body. Conservatoires give their qualifications based on years of study in one institution. At the end of the day, it is how good a musician you are that counts. Basing a comparison on looking at the syllabus isn't realistic - there are many other factors to consider, like the marking scheme.

Looking at the failure rate, which is in the region of 50%, I think it is a high level diploma and that anyone who achieves it has done very well!

I think Sue is right though, comparing it with conservatory education it not comparing like with like. I would expect anyone who has completed a good conservatory level of education to be able to easily pass an LRSM and be able to give a fellowship exam a good stab too.

No I do not think that the two are comparable, and those who I know have done both have said the conservatoire training is the more difficult and "prestigous".

Although the entry requirements for the Conservatiores in the UK is Grade 8 with a distinction, more students are commencing their undergraduate programmes having already passed the DipABRSM. As all levels of AB exams require sightreading, upon reachingt undergraduate level one would be expected to have already achieve an appropriate skill in sight reading. At the Conservatoire it wouldnt/shouldnt be an issue.

I agree that you're not comparing like for like. Training at a conservatoire/music college is going to be a much better all-round education than just studying for the dipABRSM.




It's surprising to hear about the failure rate being so high. Perhaps thats because people enter for it before they're ready? It's not really a 'high level diploma' though. It's a sort of pre-professional and entry-level diploma and asks considerably less of candidates than LRSM which, along with the much coveted FRSM, is rather more fitting of the title of 'high level diploma'.

I think that the syllabus says that the requirements for LRSM are at the sort of level that somebody should be at after completing four years undergraduate training...or something like that.

My impression is that it can be easier to pass other diplomas. If one is borderline, AB seems quicker to fail you.

I work in the academic side of things at a conservatory and the first study pianists would be expected to be able to take an LRSM with flying colours in second year. This is because the amount of repertoire they cover means they should already know many things from the requirement lists. Indeed some, not all, of the piano teachers discourage taking diplomas at all to undergrads as they regard them as a waste of time. (I disagree with this)

That doesn't make it a 'high level diploma' though, unlike LRSM and FRSM. I'm interested that you say that it is easier to fail dipABRSM than others if you're borderline. Do you have any statistics to back that up?

Is it part of the course requirement at your conservatoire that first study pianists take LRSM in their second year? It sounds a laudable aim.

There is more to a conservatoire course than the end of year and final recitals, whether sight-reading or quick study (not quite the same thing) are included or not.

Mad Tom has links to a conservatory in the Netherlands. I would expect him to have something to say on the subject!

[quote name='T.W. Adorno' date='Nov 9 2009, 09:15 PM' post='893645']

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My impression is that it can be easier to pass other diplomas. If one is borderline, AB seems quicker to fail you.
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That doesn't make it a 'high level diploma' though, unlike LRSM and FRSM. I'm interested that you say that it is easier to fail dipABRSM than others if you're borderline. Do you have any statistics to back that up?

Is it part of the course requirement at your conservatoire that first study pianists take LRSM in their second year? It sounds a laudable aim.
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I have experience of various diplomas and their ease of passing/failing myself and also from friends and colleagues who teach or have taken different dips.

It isn't a course requirement. As I said some of the teachers don't see the point when the students are working towards a degree in piano. However some of them certainly seem to use it as a motivational tool/additional deadline.

Robodoc picked up on the "minor conservatory" point there...what does this mean?

Sorry I messed up the quotes there!

"Robodoc picked up on the "minor conservatory" point there...what does this mean?"

It means 'not like the Julliard's standard', or just not like any other big conservatory name. There are many conservatories out there, mostly 'minor' ones that we can be surprised they even exist in such a place/city! My sister actually had got her master in a technical field from Twente, before she went to the conservatory once she was bored as a housewife. So, teaching the piano gives her a chance to work at home and to watch her kid at once. Now she has worked on that diploma, teaches the piano, and has 40-50 students.

Of course, compared to famous conservatories like the Royal ones too, the DipABRSM might seem petty. But compared to most conservatories in average, then the DipABRSM is really not easy.

My sister told me, for instance, that the guitar department in her conservatory closes the final recitals for public because it's kind of embarrassing. It's that 'minor'.

That sounds quite different to what I think of as a conservatory. I would have thought in terms of four years of full time study leading to a Bachelor's Degree. In that situation, the DipABRSM is not that high a level. However, out in the "real world" I think it is a great qualification and one that would command a level of respect from those in the know.

Congratulations to your sister on her teaching practise!

the dip ABRSM cannot be compared with any kind of course at a UK music college!

I only know about piano! If you have passed any of the Associate level diplomas (ALCM, ATCL, DipABRSM)you would almost certainly be able to pass the performance part of the audition to get in to Utrecht Conservatoire, and you would have a good chance of passing the performance exam at the end of the first year. [But unless you are a future star you would be unlikely to score one of the coveted 8's, 9's or 10's in the performance assessment]

However, unless you had studied them separately, you would not have the knowledge to pass all the other exams, i.e. asa minimum ...

Solfege,
Dictation,
Harmony,
Counterpoint,
Composition,
Music history,

etc.

Not sure if you're agreeing with me or not! That is what I meant. Those who study at that level are in the minority though, so for the rest of us the DipABRSM is a very good level to have reached. For someone studying performance at third level, the AB even specify that the Dip is comparable to the level expected at the end of first year. (I only remembered that bit now!)