On a related note to this thread about time to get to G8 (which I've interpreted as being 3500 hours practice, on average and typically 10 years from scratch).

How much time do you think you can reduce that by if it's your second/third/etc instrument?

I should probably declare an interest. I'm learning the oboe after having played the viola, and I've progressed significantly more quickly that I anticipated. However, I find it difficult to judge my own level, and I suspect that part of my rapid initial progress is because I practice a lot more than a typical (child) beginner might. Maybe other people have thought about this?

Yes I've been thinking about this as a result of the other thread, and yes I do think you progress more quickly on successive instruments.

I think that I did about 500 hours on my oboe first time around which took me to grade 5 and slightly beyond. I then didn't play for about 7 years, since restarting I have done about 60-70 hours of lessons and practice, last night my teacher said that if I wanted to do an exam that I could "easily" pass grade 6, and some of the pieces I'm doing are on the grade 7 syllabus. She mentioned that my fingerwork was very good, and said that was probably because of playing the flute for many years. If moving on to a similar instrument there are definitely transferable skills - for woodwind things like breathing technique, fingering, having the dexterity in my fingers, articulation. They aren't exactly the same on the oboe to the flute but it is more a case of adapting how I do something rather than learning from scratch, so I think that makes it quicker.

Even moving to a completely different instrument, I think being able to read music, having a concept of what good sounds like, and an awareness of musicality puts you ahead of the game and allows you to indentify problem areas and have more targetted and effective pratice. Also, if you already read music it frees you up to focus on the technicalities of playing the instrument without having to spend a lot of conscious effort trying to read the dots. Does that make sense?

In terms of reducing the time it takes, I don't know - I suspect that depends on what level you got to on your previous instruments, how much you can transfer across in terms of skills, if you are having to read music in a different clef or transpose etc and on the person of course. Interesting to see what other people think.

I can only give 'my experience'

but I have been learning violin for 2 years and 10 months and am at grade 5 standard

taken up double bass 7 months ago and am about grade 4 to 5 on this

I don't think if I did double bass THEN violin that I would have got such a quick result on violin as I 'think' (although I may be wrong) that violin is a bit more 'tricky' to learn (although bass has its difficult bits too!)

I don't practice bass every day, more like every other day and only for about 40 minutes

I do an hour 5 to 6 days a week on violin (sometimes 1hr and a half) AND in the 2 yrs and 10 months I've had a total of nearly a year of no practicing at all!
and I've had 2 months on bass of no practice as well (yes, had a very difficult summer this year! money and housing problems).

And then there's the clarinet....

Jojo, I reckon you've got 8 days in your week!!

no I don't practice the clarinet actually, at all, it's got to go back to the shop I reckon (especially as I don't miss it one tiny bit)

I've got to around Grade 6 flute in less than a year, with very little practice (maybe 2 hours a week ).

I wish I could do that with violin LOL LOL

I did that with the flute too- started it in the September of my lower 6th, took gd3 in December then got a merit in gd7 the following March. Then dropped out of school so had to stop lessons, but only played it once a week in my lessons anyway.

Don't get offended though, any flautists out there, I'm not saying your instrument is easy. I sounded like I was blowing over a beer bottle! The examiner said to me afterwards "what instrument do you really play?!"

That made me laugh out loud!

It's even better than my teacher's recent comment, "well you got through it, and some of the notes were right".

Slightly on this topic. I have suddently got it in my head that I would like to play the viola. Has anyone else started the viola while learning the violin, or vice versa? And if so, how did it go, did you find it a shortcut or just confusing switching between them?

I hardly practised clarinet for the first two years I had it. Mostly it came out for orchestra rehearsals.
At that point I realised that I was managing ok but was not really going to go any further with it unless I had regular lessons. I wasn't sure whether this would work but decided to give it a try and was lucky enough to find a really good teacher.
Now I see piano and clarinet as equally important though at the moment clarinet is still in the ascendency..... even now I've got to the part where I actually have to put in quite a lot of effort.......For about a year I found I could more or less coast.

I got a viola for Christmas last year. I have found I can play it perfectly well until I have the music in front of me! Ok, Im slow on the alto clef having never had to use it before, but I get all befuddled with my positions then too, even on the 3 strings I know, and in the end I can't even remember what the open strings are!
It's like Alice in Wonderland's pack of cards falling down - except it's all my music knowledge round my feet on the carpet!
Technique-wise isn't a problem though after the initial heaviness and slightly bigger intervals and vibrato.

Have fun with it if you decide to go ahead.

I've been playing Sax for nearly 18 months now and have probably got to around grade 5 standard, have played flute for many years prior to this. At the moment my teacher is working on developing my stamina and embouchure as my prior experience means I know what I'm trying to achieve, the notes are the right rhythm generally and apart from the top (D, E, F) and bottom (C, B) the notes come out consistently and the fingering is fine. As far as practice goes I do scales every time I practice and work on studies & pieces. Not sure all of you would call it proper practice as I do a fair amount of playing through things and only stop if a bar is wrong - just working on bars in isolation won't increase my stamina. Also most of the pieces we are doing I find fairly straightforward to learn as my sightreading is OK having played in concert bands on flute.

Yes, I think the pack of cards falling down is what I was concerned about. I am not that good at the violin yet and I don't want to mess up my playing of that.

I still can't get the idea out of my head though - viola players are always in short supply.

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm sure I've progressed fairly quickly on oboe due to my previous experience of reading music (for viola and singing) and also the previously acquired knowledge that to make good progress you need to put the effort in.

I took up clarinet at the age of 26 when I already had Grade 8 piano, and had just actively started to work at the piano again after several years of relative neglect. It took me 2 years and about 400 hours of practice to get to Grade 5 (since when I have not played it again!).

So a good 600 hours less than the 1000 hours it is reckoned to need. i.e. a bit less than half the time you'd expect starting completely from scratch. What exactly it is that you already know, and that accounts for the quicker lewarning, I can't say for sure, but it is a lot more than being able to read musical notation, and familiarity with a particular clef. That is a pretty easy skill to learn, and would save a few hours at most.

You should ask Robodoc. He has gone from beginner to Grade 7 on flute in less than two years. In fact, by the time you read this he might already have his Grade 8 flute. Amazingly he did that in parallel with improving his piano playing from a rusty Grade 5 to well beyond Grade 8. But I don't know how many hours of practice he put in to achieve such remarkable progress.

I would say only take up viola if you intend to dump the violin altogether. I spent about 3 years dividing myself between the 2 (and piano as well) and ended up not making progress with either instrument. Although I did get to play in better orchestras because I had my big fiddle...but felt like a bit of a fraud.
I recently played at a wedding and played that Bach cello prelude (you know, the really famous one) and it sounded amazing...which has made me think that actually it might have been nice to stick with viola afterall. It is such a beautiful sound. You just have to ignore all the viola jokes that come as standard.

Viola players are generally in short supply, but in even shorter supply are good violists as too many can be ex-violinists after a job!
I guess the best thing is to work out why you are hankering after it. It may be that although you started on violin, you are really a closet violist waiting to break out! I love the deep sounds of the lower strings, and the vibrations on my collarbone, but I am a violinist really.
Is there someone you can borrow one from for a few weeks?
It really is a lovely instrument and worth a try I'd say

I agree. If you prefer the viola to the violin (in which case, congratulations on your excellent taste) or just want to be more in demand, I'd suggest you switch rather than trying to learn both. It probably wouldn't take all that long to get to the same standard on the viola that you're now at on the violin. But you do need a viola teacher, not a violin teacher who can also get by on the viola.

I don't think you need to dump one for the other, but it would certainly be wise to get a decent grounding on one before taking up the other. There are plenty of people who properly play two or more instruments, but it is just because of these two being so similar that it could actually cause some problems between the two at first.

I think that's primarily a function of how much time you have available to practice.

The viola is no more difficult than the violin or cello as far as I can tell. The alto clef is just the viola clef - you quickly learn to associate it with the viola, and if anything that helps because one of the important things is to remember that the viola and the violin are distinct instruments. It can be difficult to go from one straight to the other, as your brain might need a few minutes to adjust to the different size and clef.

If you want to add the viola, you should do it. Think of it as an upgrade .

It took me 9 years to get to gr 8 in violin. Piano was my first instrument and I was also doing singing and theory exams at the same time. I like listening to violin plaing and enjoy playing in an orchestra.

I have thought about taking up viola but my fingers can just about manage the violin. A viola is bigger, so it may not be possible.

it's possible if you really want it
I have just seen this small woman with really tiny fingers playing double bass EXCELLENTLY in an orchestra last saturday, AND she was playing on a FULL SIZE ONE AND ALL!!!
I am tall-ish and have medium to large hands and I CANNOT stretch 1st finger to 4th on Bass in first position (on my 3/4 sized one), but there are ways to 'cheat' and the shorter your fingers the more you cheat.
She was very good at cheating (cheating is skipping/hopping from first to fourth rather than doing the finger stretch)

Well I have always liked the sound of the viola, and I suppose part of what has put it in my head now is the luthier who has worked on my violin has an old viola he is restoring that I took a fancy to. He says it is very well made, but will not be worth a great deal because it will look a bit rough even when it is done, although it will play well. I think I will get it and have a sneaky try on it. Deep down I think I need to get more secure with my violin playing before making the switch - or addition, but I think I will have a go at it anyway.

I am rather given to whims, and this is one of them. But then taking up the violin after I retired was one of my whims and I am just soooo pleased that I went along with that one.