I'm having rather a bad time at the moment with pupils' lack of practising. To be fair, it's only 3 or 4 pupils. One's busy with his acting "career" in the local amdram soc., others are very sporty and run, dance, play team games such as netball, hockey and so on.

I get messages like "Jane won't be able to do much until after the xxxxxx competition" or similar and we seem to stagnate. They're the kind of pupils who do well in exams because they're bright, but I get nothing in between because it's the "turn" of one of the other activities.

I've tried lots of recommended methods of encouragement, but these are youngish teenagers (13 or 14 year olds). One gets up at 6.30am to practise. I did ask whether she was actually awake when she was practising and she said no!!! She does lots of other things, and may still be doing homework at 10pm.

Half of me thinks I should put my foot down firmly and say if you can't practise 4 times a week regularly I think you shouldn't be here. The other half of me is basically a coward and feels I should keep going with what I've got.

I'm just letting off steam here, not really looking for advice, but if any-one else is suffering with pupils likewise I wouldn't feel quite so alone!

Have you tried a competition between pupils?

Lack of practice is a common problem with this age group and yes it's frustrating. However I believe it's highly beneficial for teenagers to learn an instrument, even if not much practice is being done. I think quite a lot of parents think the same.

I used to worry a great deal about non-practisers, but over the years I've just come to accept that nearly all pupils go through periods without any practising being done. Whilst as teachers, we know that the outcome is not ideal, I do think there's a lot which can be achieved in lessons regardless. I usually find that non-practisers usually turn the corner eventually, but they have to see the value of it and that takes time.

Sometimes I wish one or other of my daughter's teachers would be a bit tougher with us so that we were forced to do some difficult decision making! She's 13, and we seem to have been constantly apologising to teachers of late regarding practice. She isn't usually still doing homework at 10pm, but she probably should be.. In our case, the reasons for lack of practice in one instrument are usually related to commitments to another or, in particular, singing. We are about to have a whole fortnight of practice and homework time eaten up by the school musical, which also involves several full day rehearsals at weekends... Unfortunately (!) her teachers are a remarkably tolerant lot. From time to time I encourage one or other to say she does too much. They won't! They seem to think it's all good for her general musical development.. Not sure it's great for anyone's sanity though..

All that said, I think GCSE and A level work will force her to give up much of what she currently does before too long, so I will help her to battle on for now...

Do you have a local music festival that they can compete in? When I was a kid (way back when!) there were three different music festivals and I was in loads of different classes - particularly if I wasn't taking an exam that term. You say that they're sporty - this should mean that they're competitive and so festivals can appeal to that side of their personalities.

Do we have anywhere on the forum which details local festivals?

An agreed manageable amount may help even if this is not much.
How much do you expect these students to have on the go at one time?
If it's more than 2 pieces then maybe reducing this would make practice seem something that is easier to handle.
I'm a long way form being in the excessuively busy category but now I have two instruments which are about equally important to me I've agrred a smaller workload for each with my teachers. The idea is that I work on fewer things at a time but in more detail.

With a younger no practiser I found that giving her a say in how much she could manage was very useful and often led to more being done than the agreed minimum.

Susie - your opening few sentences rang bells. I have one which falls into this category - and he's 10! change of school in the middle of last summer term - new school much more pressurised and, I guess more opportunities, plus longer day.

Was doing really well, excellent result at grade 1 and I had to hold him back from starting grade 2 stuff immediately. Has now started a third instrument at school, plus choir and drama (two rehearsals a week for drama presentation) and piano is really taking a back seat. Trouble is I can see him losing interest. I accepted that this term was going to be tough - now it seems that the drama thing isn't until March - so the two evenings a week schedule is set to continue.

I have reduced my expectation and try to give him small targets to meet each week. We have currently given up on the grade 2 pieces and have put that on hold for a while - looks like quite a long while! Hugely disappointing to have such a promising kid marking time. And not just that - but to watch him losing that spark - it's criminal.

Have contacted mum but she's just not very - pro-active, and doesn't eg read his notebook. The two older children went the same way in a much shorter time - but I had better hopes of the youngest one.

One of my older (gsce year) pupils has told me this afternoon that he isn't able to continue with piano after this term, impossibly busy, but would like to keep on coming in order to do theory. Again it's a pity - but perhaps more easily understandable at 14-15.

Thanks all for your replies. I do feel a bit better now, possibly also because I have just had a "fitted-in" lesson with a pupil who was ill on Monday, but who "really, really wanted a lesson". She's one of my practisers.

I'm inclined to steer clear of competitions (SJ's guitar teacher had a very bad experience with one) and our local music festival is "fixed" in my humble opinion, so I only use it in truly desperate moments. They also hold it in Feb half term when half the world round here goes skiing.

I don't think I ever expect too much practising, but I will bear that thought in mind, and I think I'm just going to be bolder to those parents I do see, and make comments about practising. It'll make me feel better to think I've done something about it.

Maggiemay - that's really sad about your pupil. I don't understand why parents don't read notebooks, or get behind children who are really capable - especially if they've had older children go through the system as it were.

I know this has been said many times before on this forum, but it's worth repeating that despite our best efforts and constant reminders, many of our pupils don't practise properly and think that playing through their pieces is practising.

I've had a real blitz on this lately and often ask my pupils how they've been practising. I've got 5 of them taking exams next week and can tell that at least 2 of them are still guilty of 'playing through'. One of them is a girl I took on from another teacher (very unusual for me) who told me that is how she's always practised and she doesn't seem convinced that my way is better. And of course, when I ask her stop and correct something, she always says 'can I start at the beginning?'

I've become a fair bit stricter this term about practise, partly because I think I've maybe been a bit too 'nice' (wimpy ?) in the past but also because I have a chunk who are now 10, 11, 12 years old and, in my opinion, quite old enough to take on board what they've got to do and do it.

I can't say that I've had 100% success but there has been a general marked improvement (and certainly no one is practising LESS or has given up).

One boy (11) who'd already been practising 2 or 3 times a week but not making much progress came in and said, off his own bat, that it was 'do or die' time - he was going to practise every day properly for two weeks and if he still couldn't do it than that'd tell him it really wasn't worth the effort. After the first week, his Bach minuet really took off and he had the biggest smile you'd ever seen.

Another girl asked her mum if she could come home for lunches as then she could practise at lunch times AS WELL as the evenings (which now she does!!!).

But most have simply upped the ante a little bit - and the results are there to be seen.

I'm not too up to speed with UK kids' timetables but I don't accept 'I don't have enough time' with the pupils here, and many do have long days. One girl explained to me very convincingly why she couldn't practise on Mondays, Tuesdays and Thursdays. So, that's easy, I told her, now you know that you HAVE to practise on Wednesdays and at the weekend.

I think it's important to consider, with teenagers and adults, the reason why they come to lessons. Because they enjoy it most of the time. Are you really going to deprive them of their enjoyment? Sure it may not be as fun to teach them, but hey, you're getting paid for it!

I completely agree.

The question, though, which is interesting and for which it is difficult to find the right balance is: wouldn't they enjoy it a LOT more if they practised a BIT more ?

For the majority, it seems to me that the answer is definitely 'yes'.

Speaking as a parent rather than a teacher, I have to say that in my view it is quality rather than quantity of practice which makes the real difference, even with just 2/3 shortish practice sessions a week. For this reason, most of the time, I don't let either of my sons "practise" by themselves because I know that, with the best will in the world, they will just play through their pieces any old how, and then mentally tick the box which says "Music practice now done".

Instead, I sit with them and offer (hopefully!) constructive criticism; or make them stop and go over bits which are causing them difficulties. Sometimes on piano or keyboard, if one hand is causing difficulties but it's awkward practising without having the other part, I will play one hand whilst son plays the other. Elder son's piano teacher has commented on what a difference this input makes, and I do make every effort to support / defer to the teacher's preferred way of tackling pieces / problem areas etc, so hopefully I'm not doing any damage!

I know not all parents have the musical skills to do this (though if the teacher gives written instructions as to how and what to practise, I'd have thought most parents could have a stab at it!), but where they do, then perhaps it would be worth tackling the parents for this kind of support, so that maximum benefit is gained from the limited practice time available?

(Age of the child in question is also a relevant factor. Mine are both primary school age; possibly once they are teenagers they will resent my butting in!! )

I have always supported my daughter in this way too. I have no skills at all on the piano so can't do exactly what you describe but I can certainly spot the passages where things are going awry and encourage her to focus on those bits. Even at 13 she's still rather inclined to just play through pieces even though she's experienced enough now to know that's not the way to do it.

As for resenting your butting in when they become teenagers, I wish you luck! In our house my presence at practice has become a bad habit which we are both finding it hard to grow out of, and it takes up a lot of my time. I strongly recommend you leave your sons to get it wrong all by themselves occasionally

I have to accept that my teenage pupils can’t do the amount of practice I - and they - would like. One girl has just asked me if she could come for a lesson every two weeks as she is snowed under on alternate weeks at her lycée. I have another teenager who is a weekly boarder with no practice facilities at school and lost a hard working girl at the end of last year as she also was forced to board. I have one other girl boarding weekly but in a school where there is a piano ( most simply don’t have one) and she has been allotted an hour and a half
practice time during the week which she puts to good use.

But I have had a few primary children starting to claim they can’t find time to practise. So I have gone for Post Its – all sizes and colours! Writing in their notebooks didn’t seem enough to focus them on the objectives for the week and I do have a sneaking sympathy for parents everlastingly being given letters to read, forms to fill in and tear off slips to return to school.. I’m not surprised they don’t always read my notes.

On the Post Its I write numbered, simple and explicit instructions for the piece or scale or whatever, concerned and stick them on the music.. If I only want a certain passage practised I stick a Post It at either side of the bars to be worked. I find this quicker than copying and cutting out bits which I have done in the past.. I write on the Post It that the instructions are for every day if possible and at least five days out of seven

I also make them “do their practice”, following my instructions, in front of me and I time them. It usually works out to be a very small amount of time and I then tell them that at the next lesson I will not accept that they have not been able to find that small number of minutes each day for the piano. It usually works out to about 5 to 7 minutes.

To be fair to my pupils I must say that most do practise regularly but for those going through a lazy phase the Post Its have helped and I am now thinking of taking out shares in whatever company it is makes them!

It sounds like some of these kids have already had their priorities decided for them by their parents, and it's very difficult to go against that because the attitude that music is secondary to whatever it's been decided that they have to focus on right now will be very strongly ingrained. If the kid is doing lots of different activities which all take up vast amounts of time I think the issue might lie with the parents' attitudes rather than the child's.

The most wonderful thing about being an adult is being able to say 'no'. I wouldn't go back to high school if you paid me.

I do not accept that a child doesn't have time to practise. There aren't many kids who do more activities than my youngest primary aged daughter- who does 14 hours of gymnastics a week and ballet, modern dance and scouts. However, she has time to practise violin and piano- admittedly in an ideal world, she would do more practise. On a Monday, she gets home from gym which she does directly after school at 7:30pm- she has to practice. On Tuesday, she has both lessons. She does have time between the 2 to do violin if necessary. Wednesday- she can practice. She only has ballet and she's home by 6. Thursday she has to practice directly after school as I teach at 4:30pm and she has scouts from 7-9pm. Friday she can't practice due to dance and gym (she gets home 9:30pm!) She can't practice on Saturday- but has music club from 9-12 and plays for 2 hours of that and has 1 hour theory, followed by gym (2-8pm). She can practice on a Sunday. I have just spoken to her about doing her practice earlier in the day as she often gets in and watches TV and ends up practising before bed. I have suggested she practices first thing as she'll be more awake and have to practice for less time as the practise will be more effective. Howvere, there are 4 days that she can practise and she has lessons/ musical activities on some of the other days!
My argument is if she has time to watch TV, she has time to practice.
Usually. it's to do with finding time, not to do with not having time.

And Tixylix, she doesn't do lots of activity because I want her to- I have 2 other children who do varying amounts of activities according to their needs and desires. My son does very little outside of school- as he couldn't cope! It's my daughter who wants to do all of this stuff! And she copes- she is an extremely able girl who needs to be busy. Even when she watches the TV she has to be doing craft stuff. She is well balanced and has lots of friends. She is popular- her non-gym friends give her grief about how she can't go out with them at weekends because of gym, but she says 'I love gym and have lots of friends there too!' . She'd do more gym if I let her. When school work becomes more challenging at secondary school, she might need to do less- but right now, she's achieving well in all she is doing and is fit, doing well and happy.
And she does have time to practise.

When I was that age, I'd have been in bed by 7:30pm - so would all my friends - I guess that's just how times have changed in the past 20 years.

That amount of after school activities appears an insanely huge amount for a child of primary school age, but if your daughter wants to do it then, as you rightly say she has to commit to her practice.

However many children are not as motivated to your daughter's degree and need to rest in front of the T.V. for some chill out time or just play. And that's where the "I don't have time to practice" comes in. They do have time but its all down to priorities and from a child's view point, rest and play is probably far more a priority than practicing.

I find that even if they enjoy something it doesn't necessarily mean they will motivate themselves to practice. They need encouragement from their parents to get it done. Well it certainly is the case in our household. I agree if you really want to find the time to practice, you will (as I do but at the cost of many other household chores) but again, I find as adults we are much more motivated and committed.

Finding time may be more of an issue for children of full-time working parents. My (primary school age) sons both go to a childminder after school, where they certainly can't do music practice and they can't really do school homework either. They get collected at 5.30, once home at 5.40 or so, it's school homework, then dinner.

Music practice for the younger needs to be squeezed in between the end of dinner (around 6.45) and bed (at 7.15 - 7.30), and in all fairness he has to be allowed a little time for TV or computer games or whatever (he doesn't get to do this at the childminder's either, usually).

The older one goes to bed later (more like 9 pm) but has two instruments and more school homework. So there isn't a lot of spare time.... We do more practising at the weekends, but it's still difficult getting 4 sessions a week for each boy on each instrument.

I know each household (and child) is different but I would make the argument for early morning practise/homework.

I used to do a paper round from age 13 and, a term before my O levels, gave it up and continued getting up at 6.30. I then used the hour or so before breakfast revising/doing homework, blasted through my O levels with As, and didn't mess up my evenings which I used for piano, watching telly, annoying my sisters, sport club, going out when allowed and all other essential things.

My elder son used to do 30 minutes piano every morning before school (thank the heavens for digital pianos and headphones) and a very good piano playing friend used to get up at 5.30 from the age of 11 (!) to do 2 hours practise every morning (!!). And on an acoustic . . .

There is something wonderfully quiet and productive about the mornings . . .

(P.S. Younger son is genetically linked to Dracula and doesn't surface before midday so I guess it's not for everyone).

Mine practice piano before school. I agree its a good time to concentrate.



he he

Clari Nicki, I wasn't implying that all parents are like that, and I hope you didn't feel like I was placing all the blame on parents as that wasn't my intention. I was more referring to the OP's comment:
because I think parents issuing notices like that to their child's teacher says more about what the parents think than what the child thinks. Some children do lots of different activities and thoroughly enjoy doing so, though as you said it is more of a challenge at secondary school.

I do have some personal resentment regarding setting priorities from my secondary school years, when I was frequently told by my various subject teachers that music wasn't really important, wouldn't get me a job (!) etc. and that their lesson had to take priority. The competition for time between different activities intensifies greatly in secondary school, and in a lot of schools there seems to be an attitude that music is a second-class subject, which filters down to all but the most determined and stubborn children who refuse to believe that a passion for music is at best merely a hobby and at worst a complete waste of time.

I'm not saying the children are entirely blameless here - I certainly wasn't - but I think the problem lies less in the quantitative variable of time and more in the qualitative variable of competition from all sides for that time, which can make it seem a lot less than it really is. This is where parents need to come in and try to help set a balance, rather than deciding the priorities for themselves as it what seems to be happening for some of the OP's pupils.

I think teenagers, and all other pupils will have some weeks when life is too hectic for much piano. I always have a plan B ready. If it happens all the time, then set a goal of a minimum of 4 good sessions of X mins, depending on what is realistic for them and the level they are playing at.