Hi

Just wondering if any of you have any experience of children auditioning for the National Youth Orchestra.

I know its terribly competitive but I was curious to know what the format has been in the past and what kind of level have people got in on. I've read their website so know that there is a study and an accompanied piece but thought some personal insights might be really useful.

Daughter who will be 13 this year and in the Main NCO would be Gd 8 level by the next round of auditions but 'might' think of going for NYO in the next couple of years or so.

Thank you!

My daughter has auditioned twice. First year got through to 2nd audition and was put as first reserve. She therefore was invited to join the orchestra for a day at Easter. This year she got in. First audition is at a number of the major cities across the UK but second audition is in London at the RCM or RAM which can create travelling stresses if you live a long way from there. They have to play the same pieces for 2nd audition as they did in the first. You are given a set study piece and then asked to play 2 other pieces which covers a set period of time, e.g. 7 minutes. I think they ask for contrasting pieces. No sight reading and no scales. This year they had longer 2nd auditions and they had to play in ensembles with others. The music for doing this was sent to them in advance. They leave time in the 1st audition to discuss the candidates knowledge and attitude towards the music they have chosen to play. I've no idea how competitive it is to get in. My daughter doesn't really suffer from auditioning and performing nerves (not to a detrimental level anyway) and i think they made her feel very relaxed. Also she played pieces she knew well so she only really had to learn the study for it. Therefore it wasn't a lot of extra work to go for it.

The courses are apparently very intense and they do take up most of the Christmas and easter holidays as well as part of the summer holiday. Just to prepare you for how little you would see your daughter! Also any GCSE or AS/A Level revision does get put to the back of the pile but if your daughter does want to do music then that is perhaps not so important.

Hope all this helps.

It probably depends what instrument your daughter plays. If it's unusual (bassoon or double bass) she should have a better chance. I know people from Berkshire who've got in for violin and clarinet at the age of 16, but they were well beyond grade 8 standard at the time, at least first diploma level. I don't personally know anyone who's got in at a young age, but assume they would be at a specialist music school or junior conservatoire.

Someone Emsoboe knows from Orchestra got in at 14 on Oboe. I expect it depends on the standard rather than grade passed. I think they are around Grade 8. we heard them in a masterclass a couple of years ago and they were excellent.

We've no experience of NYO at all but recently auditioned for National Youth Recorder Orchestra. She was really shocked by the level of difficulty of the Study, which was very difficult.

Daughter plays violin so it'll be practically impossible to get in I presume She's in the NCO but we'll see how she progresses in the next year or two. So far she's baffled us with her quick progress in the last 3 years since she started the violin, but who knows what the future trajectory would be, especially as she turns a teenager soon!

The subject of NYO only came up as she said that many of her friends from the Main NCO will be auditioning directly for the NYO this year, and I just wondered what they looked for in prospective players, and what level.

We know quite a few players in the NYO this year but they're all 16 or older. I know a 14 year old violinist who got in but he'd been learning since the age of 3 with both parents as professional violinists so I suspect was a decent high standard by the time he auditioned. My daughter also knows a 14-15 year old oboist who got in this year but on the other hand, a 15 yr old violinist who attends one of the Junior Colleges in London and had been in the NCO for 6 years, playing at diploma level didn't even make it past the first round.

Very well done to your daughter for getting into the NYO, interestedparent. Hope she's enjoying the course. Daughter really wanted to go and hear them play on the 6th of Jan as they're playing the Shos 5 which she played in the U 13 NCO last year and she loves the piece, but unfortunately it's a school night and a long way away.

The format now is two rounds of auditions, playing a set unaccompanied study and a couple of short contrasting accompanied pieces. The first round is regional, in front of a tutor (not necessarily of the same instrument), and the second round is in London in front of the instrument tutor and the director.

(This is different from when I auditioned 30-something years ago - just one audition in front of the director, the formidable Ivey Dickson in those days )

My son has auditioned for the last two years on clarinet, and has got to the final round both times, but no luck yet (he's 15 now). Looking at the list of players, there are hardly any under 16, so the implication seems to be that older players are more likely to get in - I'm keeping my fingers crossed for next year.

My guess is that clarinet and flute are the most competitive instruments, whereas I had it relatively easy on bassoon. Given the numbers needed, I'd have thought that violin is one of the easier to get in on.

Chris

a mum - your daughter sounds very talented and as the last post said their are places for a lot of violinists so there could be a good chance.

I know a couple of violinists who've got in this year and both are well beyond grade 8. They may need a lot of violinists but the standard is still incredibly high. I seem to remember a violist who had a diploma last year not getting a place.

I kow the principle 2nd violinist as he is the leader of TYO and he is insanely good. You have to be well beyond grade to make it worthwhile auditioning.

My opinion is that if you don't have supportive parents and amazing teachers on your instrument from a young age you are not likely to get in.

Even if you do not get in there will many other youth groups happy to take you as a member.

For example would never get into NO however I did get into Surrey Youth Orchestra before deciding i didn't want to be a member there.

... but don't leave it too late because I'm not sure that's true. Perhaps there's a very narrow window? It's a pity such an august body doesn't have a more transparent application process - but there's other august bodies that have even more opaque ones so I shouldn't complain.

My Year 13 daughter had an unsuccessful audition this year. One of the tutors/interviewers at the second round said something along the lines of not being interested in students in Year 13. (One wonders in that case why she was put through to the second round.) The cynic in me concluded that although it says on the website that you can apply in Year 13, they're not actually saying they'll consider you (shades of Mr Toad). My daughter's more reasonable inference was that, all other things being equal, they prefer younger players. Of course it could simply have been that she wasn't good enough and the remark about her age was irrelevant. She asked for feedback and is waiting for that.

More violinists in the orchestra but many many more auditioning I suspect and playing at a very high level. From our experience of the NCO, I know that violin was the most fiercely competitive instrument to get in on as the Director said so himself at one of the last concerts. So I suspect it's even tougher for the NYO.

It's interesting to hear about the attitude towards Yr 13 students- I'm quite taken aback by that comment.
Does the NYO give detailed feedback on the audition?

The comment took us aback - on the face of it, it suggested she'd been wasting her and her teacher's time and our money, but on the plus side it was good experience in handling herself in a difficult situation, and in dealing with the subsequent rejection (and she got her first university rejection less than a day after that - it was a fun 24 hours). As I said above, I'm not sure whether it was a throw-away remark (not all interviewers are particularly adept at the task) ... but it would be nice for future applicants to know.

Not sure how much detail there'll be, but yes feedback is provided. They said after the auditions that it could take until the end of Jan to provide it, and I guess as my daughter only wants it for the record and not with a view to re-auditioning (she WILL be too old next year), she's probably low priority. Will post anything useful that comes out of it

I should have said at the outset, and stress now, that the Year 13 comment was in the context of NEW applicants, and didn't refer to people re-applying.

If this helps . .

Firstly . . . a parental tip for approach. My son's teacher asked him to use the audition as a chance to learn. If everyone else is better than you . . .why? What could you be doing better? If you get to second round then this is never a waste of time. You get a workshop with one of the best professors on your instrument in the country. You listen to what they say about everyone not just you - it is impossible not to learn from it and that can never be a waste of time.

My son has been in NYO since he was 14. He is at an ordinary school and has one 45 min lesson a week with a local teacher.

They set Grade 8 distinction entry level as a guideline - you don't need it, it's just to let you know what standard most candidates will play at.

They are keen for anyone who feels able to and can meet the basic criteria to come and audition, they don't want an orchestra full of music school hot housed kids. Although it has to be said that most of the music school bunch are really nice and it is inevitable that they will shine at audition.

They consider everyone equally and plenty get in for the first time at Year 13. However applying early lets you get in while showing good potential. No point taking a new Year 13 with potential as they may not realise it in the first year and then they are gone. Which is why my son would say audition early (14 or so, from a good grade 7 onwards) because if they have got a good core of great players in the section they will take a punt on a 14 year old who shows potential, was responsive at audition, who can sit at the back and learn from the others.

If you really want to be successful, then learn the set study inside out and play an own choice piece that you can play well - don't choose one to impress them, they have heard it all before. You want to impress them? - play something well within your capability,play it well, musically and accurately. Be interested and responsive in the workshop at second audition. Respect the others in your workshop and be prepared to make constructive comments if asked. Trawl their website and be able to talk about all the things they have done recently, read the online newsletters watch the video clips. There is plenty there to get you motivated.

Get another teacher to hear you a couple of months or so before the audition, my son emailed the local professional orchestra and asked if one of their players would give him an hour or so. It was very constructive and picked a few things up.

Remember that everyone who gets to second round is good enough for the orchestra, they just have to pick a section that works well together and will cope with the repertoire and demanding conductors.

Feedback will be constructive and kind.

If you don't succeed first time use the experience to make you better next time - one of my son's section auditioned every year from Year 10 to Year 13 and finally got in for Year 13 - he was told each year how much he had improved and was determined to do it, when he did get in he was great.

It is very different from NCO and mustn't be assumed as the senior ensemble to NCO.

I would thoroughly recommend it, it is run by a great bunch of enthusiastic staff who relate superbly to the players.

Good Luck

Your lovely thoughtful message is a good riposte to my negative comments on the selection process and a lovely commentary on the NYO in general. I’m glad to hear your son has had such a fulfilling experience... and that some Year 13 students are selected.

It seems that what was said to my daughter was not from the NYO hymn sheet, which will be reassuring to others reading this thread. Nonetheless, we respect her auditioner’s right to choose who he wants on criteria he sets: he has to work with the students and make them work together. BUT it would have been nice to know his particular views on older students before she applied. Because—and despite what you say about the selection process being good experience and “never a waste of time”—she should have been able to decide whether to devote the time to another opportunity (there are a lot of amazing music opportunities, activities towards DofE Gold Award, etc. on offer). Time is not elastic and I doubt she would have applied if she’d known his views, but would have devoted her energies elsewhere. If that sounds arrogant, would you devote a lot of energy applying for a job if you knew the interviewer would then apply criteria that would automatically exclude you?

Despite the tone of my message, we’re not cross. She was chuffed to get to the 2nd round. She was surprised at what was then said about Year 13 students but the subsequent rejection therefore came as a foregone conclusion. While being rejected was fine, knowing that it was inevitable was not. I am miffed about that, and that alone. I'm glad to hear this was a probably rare experience. She's moved on.

I see from the NYO website that they sometimes do open days as a sort of taster for the real thing. Does anyone with NYO experience know how often these happen and where? From the website it seems we missed one in London in the autumn and there's nothing coming up in the immediate future. Will I have to keep my eye open for a repeat in autumn 2010, or will there be something before that? My daughter is certainly not ready for NYO (and may never be), but she might like to find out if she wants to work towards an audition.

Yes my daughter did a couple of these Open Days at Morley College in London

There would be a Zillion violins but only about a dozen violas so they would get close attention with excellent teaching. She was a member of LSSO and never had any intention of applying for NYO but enjoyed the Open Days.

If you contact the NYO they will email you with the dates for the next Open Day nearest to your address.

BRILLIANT advice and excellent post - thanks for taking the time to share your experiences of the audition process. If my daughter auditions in the future I will remember to come back here and do a search for your post!

Thanks, noisyhouse for the excellent tips and for sharing these with us. We'll certainly take these on board if my daughter ever goes for the nyo.

Thanks also to everyone else who has contributed to this thread!